Bahamut Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 There is a fundamental problem with this campaign, in that it shows that the only fans OverClocked ReMix cares about are those who have a Facebook account and are willing to "like" their page. That is poor logic at best - we are targeting fans that use Facebook and willing to 'like' the page, yes, but that does not extend to a lack of caring of fans who do not. This campaign has left me with a permanent disdain for OverClocked Remix, as it is clear how out-of-touch the people in charge of the site are with the community. The individual people (who by the way, make up the community) no longer matter, it is just a numbers game.It doesn't take a genius to figure out that releasing new music, will bring in more fans. That is all you have to do, and that is all the site has ever had to do for the past ten years. By refusing to release the album until 27,000 likes are achieved on Facebook, you are coercing the Facebook community to market for you, and that's the bottom line. I don't think it's that we're out of touch. You're being incredibly selfish with your perspective that the site should cater exclusively to *your* wishes. It shows a complete lack of knowledge over how diverse the community is and what people comprise it. Again, we are looking to the future. In addition, you have an incorrect view of what the point of the Facebook 'likes' are for. It is for promotion of future mixposts/album posts/posted artists/game related news. It is not for promoting the album. We believe the album will promote itself. It just so happens that the carrot of an album is one of the most powerful incentives we can dangle for getting people to hit 'like' (and with the advent of Timeline for pages, this is the only time we can try something like this). I completely understand the point of view that a few people seem to have with this. The problem is that those people who are taking it personally are so emotionally invested that they cannot rationally evaluate what the site is trying to do, and falsely attribute it to some negative motive. If you do not wish to participate, that is your right. But to say that we don't care or that we are only about the numbers? That's a stretch at best given our extensive history promoting the music & artists first. Just about everything we do is related to that core purpose. I've waited far longer for the release of the album than all of you, and felt badly about it not being released *while* getting jacked up near daily in Marine Corps boot camp. Others and I put in a lot of time and energy into preparing this album for release. We are confident that the final product will stand out on its own. Is the dramatic posts over a 'like' campaign worthwhile/accurate when put in this perspective, and with the upside of being able to alert some of the casual fans (which there are a lot of out there) of future stuff of interest to them? Think about it, and then sleep on it. It's challenging your perspective to think bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightofthecolossus Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think the campaign was a fun idea in concept. I mean, looking at the front page and seeing a nice little Sigma message basically telling everyone to round up their friends and like the FB page seems like a pretty cool, funny and fun thing to do plus it promotes the site. I'm pretty sure that's what the mods/admins here had in mind when it came to this little thing: a little fun promotion for the site. I don't think any venom was intended here like others seem to think. But, I think the backlash came from more or less timing than anything. I think people were just kinda caught off guard by this, seeing how the album's trailer was released not too long ago and we know the album is finished. When the album's completion was hyped and then that particular obstacle came, well, I think it made some people understandably irritated and others just kinda babyish. If it had been about a week or two before, I don't think this would have been too much of a problem for too many people. But, I say that alot of us really need to just buckle down and try to get this promoted enough so we can finally get this epic album and help out OCR in the process. And... if we can't do that, we can atleast use a bunch of sockpuppets to rig everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The more and more I think about it, this whole "Like on Facebook" thing just screams of Opeth. You make 9 brilliant and amazing albums, then you make Heritage which completely turns off your core fanbase, the people who followed you since Orchid, in an attempt to gain attention from the hipster demographic. Yeah I'm joking but hah.. But seriously, any way we could release the next album while we wait for this one? Copied from earlier post: 3/12 11:10pm - 24,365 3/13 12:35am - 24,407 - 42 increase 3/13 8:47am - 24,595 - 188 increase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level 99 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Both sides have valid points. Both sides need to stop taking stabs at each other. I'm on site staff, and also a member of the community, and I can see this shit from both sides. I'm also an artist on the album, and an assistant director on the album. Allow me to break it down: OverClocked ReMix is a site that is funded by fans and the community, and the community exists through word of mouth and what little internet advertisement and pressence we have there. Sure, we go to conventions and everything, but the core demographic for us has always been internet-based and usually revolves around the community for Video Game Music, as well as the larger Video Games and Music communities in-general. Quite obviously times are a-changin': Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Google+, whatever. Social media is the main avenue to reach a fanbase these days, even if its just reposting updates from another website to them, that's how people get their info. OC ReMix has done a pretty fantastic job adapting to the changing climate of fan interaction over the years. There's been a few hiccups but for fuck's sake, we post every ReMix to youtube and tweet/facebook whenever shit goes down that people should know about. People visit those sites way more potentially than people hit the ocremix.org homepage to find out about a mix. Speaking from personal experience, I know that I keep my facebook and my ocremix.org/forums tabs open a hell of a lot more than I do the main OCR page. So in that case, how I find out about albums and ReMix posts is....through facebook. I'd like to find someone to disagree with me that this Mega Man X series album isn't one of the most anticipated albums OCR has created in a long while. Maybe not THE most of all time, but the fanbase for MMX is huge and has never had an album catered to it from this community of musicians. That's one of the main rationales as to why an album like this would be picked for a social media campaign: through sheer popularity. Yes, this can be seen by many people as a dick move to make an album which has had a very rough history of delays already seem arbitrarily pushed back even farther for "some petty facebook campaign". I partially agree with that: this could have been more well-planned, launched earlier, and possibly been more tactful in both approach and goal. For those only partially informed about the album's history, this can easily be construed as "holy shit, they spent 9 extra months finishing this and now its finally ready and they're holding the album for a 2500-like ransom. THIS IS BULLSHIT!" This is the first time we have ever attempted something like this, so there was bound to be some rough spots and we wouldn't get it completely right. Considering the history the site has had offering high-quality free material for well over a decade, I think that some slack should be given on both sides for any issues as a result of this campaign. It is so easy to devolve into hostility but really we are better than this, people! It is not simple minded to have negative reaction to this. Those frustrated with not being able to actively participate in this campaign do have some valid complaints. It also isn't petty for OCR to be using its hard work for additional publicity, as publicity is what keeps this site alive and ticking. If things like this weren't attempted, the site would steadily taper off in regards to its growth of community. tl;dr - there are flaws on both sides, now stop bitching at each other and stop Sigma. Edit: Knightofthecolossus is right when it comes to origination: we thought this would be a fun way to promote the site, the album, and play on the history of MMX lore in anticipation for the release. There was no ill will when planning this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I wasn't talking about charging for this album, I'm talking about charging for a product in general, which some people automatically equate as the worse thing possible.There is no asking going on here, it's become a clear stipulation of the album's release. The staff requiring a set amount of "likes" is hostile, as it has become the opposition to the album's release. If the staff simply asked people to like the Facebook page before downloading the album that would be a completely different story. I believe you are misinterpreting my dissatisfaction and disgust for hostility. This has to be the silliest thing I've ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Sigma has taken this thread hostage. He is demanding at least 30 more nonsensical posts that take a fun, promotional move WAY too seriously, or he is going to punch his own face into a bloody, unrecognizable pulp, then start charging for pieces of his own skull fragments - because the only way you can apparently get people to tolerate promotion, or anything less than a perfect, idealized version of what they expect, is to paradoxically charge them $$$ for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yeah, mock the people who are upset about this. That'll make them like you again. Copied from earlier post: 3/12 11:10pm - 24,365 3/13 12:35am - 24,407 - 42 increase 3/13 8:47am - 24,595 - 188 increase 3/13 9:32am - 24,614 - 19 increase 3/13 11:08am - 24,654 - 40 increase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yeah, mock the people who are upset about this. That'll make them like you again. Some people aren't happy unless they're outraged about something. It's very silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level 99 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Some people aren't happy unless they're outraged about something.It's very silly. That's also very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'm not bothered by the wait or the facebook liking at all. I'm really just starting to get kinda bothered by the staff's disrespect for the users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level 99 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'm not bothered by the wait or the facebook liking at all. I'm really just starting to get kinda bothered by the staff's disrespect for the users. Please elaborate about the perceived disrespect that staff is giving users, with specific examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Is this really that different from when we have no idea when an album is released? "Some time after the trailer" is pretty much all we know for most releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I really don't understand what the big deal is here. This is no doubt an amazing album being released for FREE, what's to complain about? So you have to wait a little bit longer, is that really such a problem? Certainly people have better things to do than being upset over a simple Facebook campaign, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 This is semi-trolling. Or at least, trolling in a sense. A terrific way to counter would be to run a campaign against subscriptions and never reach the 7k benchmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSim Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well well well, I saw this thread title and thought "Yeah, what's up with this weird advertising push?", so I started reading and... yeah. Firstly I'll state that I'm really not bothered about hearing this album, as I never played a Mega Man game, so it's not something I'm looking forward to (DKC3, however...). Hopefully that can provide some objectivity to the situation. Here's my take on it. I have an old schoolfriend on Facebook who is in a band, and is CONSTANTLY doing stuff like this, albeit on a much smaller scale (his band has about 250 likes). It started small, but now has become like an obsession, and I get at least 1 of these "share and like our page!" posts DAILY. It's increasingly irritating, and as much as I like the guy, it actually makes me want to turn off status updates from him because I'm oversaturated with "information". I fear this is where this campaign will end up, as do many people posting voicing their concerns. I must say, I agree with a lot of what Calatia has said, and I think it speaks volumes that there are many new or less-posted forum members voicing their opinions (jivjov, and the OP, among others) on this matter. These "new", or rather, silent majority of users are PRECISELY THE TARGET AUDIENCE OF THIS CAMPAIGN. Everyone well-established in the community already links their music to their friends, and has a pretty small window of influence left. The users this campaign wants to "Like" the page are the ones who periodically check the site but don't want to be oversaturated with information. This has the negative effect of polarising the community and alienating the "casual fans" who just like to drop in now and again. Like me and my friend's band - I no longer really care if he releases a new track, because I gloss over the posts in my news feed. Social media is fantastic for promotion, but it's not to be used as a blunt instrument. The exposure OCRemix enjoys at the moment is organic, healthy growth fuelled largely by the excellent work done by the staff at ensuring its presence is felt on social media, without being overbearing. Not to mention the enjoyment people get from sharing released remixes they've enjoyed with their friends. As soon as growth starts to become fuelled by frenzied link-spamming (for something that isn't even out yet), it separates the fanbase into those hardcore who promote it relentlessly, and the large silent majority get fed up and go elsewhere. It also leads to frustration for those who already like the page, and feel they can't do any more to help because, like anything, it's often very hard to find people that will blindly like a page that haven't already. Don't forget - even if you like a page, you can still unsubscribe to updates, so it's a false positive. Of course no ill will was intended from this campaign, but given the current (relatively small, but valid) backlash, wouldn't it be prudent to re-evaluate this strategy, and at the very least, reduce the target number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivjov Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yes, there is no way we could be attempting to reach both types of people at once. How that makes one go "A-HA, CAUGHT YOU IN LIES!" is beyond me. It's meant to bring more potential listeners and newcomers to check out to what the artists provide here at OC ReMix, as well as target folks who may already enjoy the site but don't like OCR on Facebook yet. I don't know why you need a press release to state this rather obvious fact. This is some of the hostility and disrespect I'm getting from people here. I post a simple, polite, well-worded request for OCRemix to be more transparent about this whole drive. Liontamer, who is listed as not just a moderator, but a SUPER moderator, responds with some of the most thinly veiled sarcasm I've ever seen, and KyleJCrb (Who isn't a forum mod, but is a co-director on a couple albums) calls my intelligence into question in a roundabout manner. "...why you need a press release..[for] this obvious fact." On the flipside, I do want to commend Bahamut (another moderator) for replying calmly and rationally in this thread. His post is very long, so I will not be quoting it here, but it is the first post on page 7. Since he has a demonstrated a much better ability to be mature and deal with fan relations in a polite manner, perhaps he should be OCRemix's next "Super Moderator" I again say, I have no problem with OCRemix wanting to increase the popularity of the site, but this particular campaign bothers me. Level 99 (another mod) makes the following statement: Quite obviously times are a-changin': Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Google+, whatever. Social media is the main avenue to reach a fanbase these days If Facebook, Twitter, etc are all valid ways to get the word out, why is this campaign limited to Facebook? Total up all your Likes, Followers, Fans, ReTweeters, whatever, and you'll hit your 27,000 mark easily. As it stands, people who don't use Facebook are being unfairly barred from accessing this hyped album. Some people just don't care for social media, some minors are forbidden to use Facebook by their parents or guardians. They currently have no way to "help stop Sigma" and get this album released. There should be some manner of "alternate Like" for these users, such as telling some friends at school or work or posting a flyer on a public bulletin board at a grocery store or community center. I again request more transparency with this advertising campaign. Stop the cheeky "IT'll take 27,000 Likes to defeat Sigma" stuff and make a simple press release that says something to the effect of "OverClocked Remix would like to increase the popularity of our site, and to further that goal, we are requiring 27,000 of our fans to "Like" us on the social media site Facebook." I also request that the moderator staff exercise more care and respect when dealing with the fans. Either designate a single person to serve as "fan relations" and have all statements come through them, or just simply respond to complaints calmly and concisely without resorting to sarcasm or accusations of entitlement. EDIT: See, this is more of what I'm talking about. Instead of responding with any kind of care and support for the community, another moderator comes back with passive-aggressive hostility. Or, maybe, you know, you're all just over analyzing the entire thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Or, maybe, you know, you're all just over analyzing the entire thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darangen Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I don't and never have appreciated "like" campaigns of any sort. But while I don't appreciate or agree with it, I can't deny that more likes means more people getting more music posted to their news feed. At the end of the day, you can dislike the method all you want but from there you have two options. Be bitter about it and whine and complain, essentially accomplishing nothing, or get a couple of your friends to like the page and contribute to getting the album released. That said, even though I dislike liking campaigns, I got 4 of my friends to like the page and I'll continue trying to get more to like it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnipotentBagel Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Okay, as someone who wasn't too happy with this yesterday but has had time to sleep on it, here's my take on the situation: Some users have a bit of a sense of entitlement, true. After so many years of free, no-strings-attached content, it's pretty easy to develop. But that doesn't make this Facebook campaign wrong, it just means that requires a bit of an adjustment in expectation. I think the biggest reason people are frustrated is because the campaign has an illusion that they can actively help get the album released when in fact, for most of us here, we've done what we can already and now it's still a waiting game, making people feel as though they were teased a bit. And what's worse, watching the progress is counterproductive because it moves so slowly in realtime that it makes the wait almost interminable. People would rather know it's coming out arbitrarily soon than watch a slow crawl (assuming progress remains similar to what it's been, using Brandon's stats, it'll be another 4 days or so before the milestone is reached. That's not too bad, honestly, but it seems rough when you're sitting at your computer watching it update in pseudo-realtime). It's a lot easier to deal with a wait when you can rationalize it (oh, the albums still under review, they haven't finished the webpage yet). This feels a lot worse because we know everything's done. The album could be released right now. And that's tough for some people to handle. That said, the people who are opposed to this aren't doing a very good job expressing what exactly makes them feel upset or betrayed and are focusing more on admonishing the site and staff for making them feel this way, which isn't helpful. Likewise, I feel like the staff has been a bit less than genuine with their attitude of "this is just a harmless promotion. I don't know why you guys are getting so upset." You guys are smart and, even if you didn't anticipate this response, I can't believe you wouldn't see where they're coming from. Even if you disagree with their take on it, recognizing their point of view could go far towards helping them feel less disenfranchised by the site. I may be new to the community, but I've been a patron of the site for a long time and I'm of the opinion that this is worth waiting for, especially assuming that it's business as usual for the site between now and the inevitable release (I'm hoping to see another normal mixpost or two this week. There's a lot of interesting-looking stuff in the queue). But I think a little understanding from both sides here could go a ways toward mending a few fences. Jivjov, you're kind of being a jerk about this, especially the way you keep making this into some sort of betrayal. Dial it back a bit if you want people to take your opinions seriously. Staffers, this is something you've never tried before and the fact that it was met with some resistance indicates that there may be a few issues with how it was done or how the message came through. That's no one's fault, that's just how these things go. It would be nice if you guys could recognize that and try to use the negative reactions as feedback to consider how this process could be improved in the future. In closing: nobody's perfect, can't we all just get along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korak the Mad Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Are you kidding me? Asking for likes just so you would release the album. I don't have a facebook page or a twitter account and I hopefully never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 As it stands, people who don't use Facebook are being unfairly barred from accessing this hyped album. Some people just don't care for social media, some minors are forbidden to use Facebook by their parents or guardians. They currently have no way to "help stop Sigma" and get this album released. There should be some manner of "alternate Like" for these users, such as telling some friends at school or work or posting a flyer on a public bulletin board at a grocery store or community center. Yes because it's so easy for us to track when someone posts a flyer at a grocery store. You're throwing out these suggestions but you don't take logistics into account. How do we measure that kind of thing? "I told three of my friends about it!" Uh, okay? "I put up a flyer, here's a picture." Okay, we'll add it to our database of real space promotional tracking!!!!!!!! The entire point in getting people to follow the OCR page on Facebook is so that we can continue to promote and inform people about music that comes out in the future in an effortless and direct manner. It gives us a way to interact with people very quickly, as soon as new music is posted. Nobody is unfairly barred from anything. The album isn't out yet. Nobody except staff has access to it. You don't get preferential treatment because you happen to participate. Once the target is hit, everyone gets the album. I again request more transparency with this advertising campaign. Stop the cheeky "IT'll take 27,000 Likes to defeat Sigma" stuff and make a simple press release that says something to the effect of "OverClocked Remix would like to increase the popularity of our site, and to further that goal, we are requiring 27,000 of our fans to "Like" us on the social media site Facebook." And people accuse me of hating fun. Are you for real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I don't and never have appreciated "like" campaigns of any sort. But while I don't appreciate or agree with it, I can't deny that more likes means more people getting more music posted to their news feed.At the end of the day, you can dislike the method all you want but from there you have two options. Be bitter about it and whine and complain, essentially accomplishing nothing, or get a couple of your friends to like the page and contribute to getting the album released. That said, even though I dislike liking campaigns, I got 4 of my friends to like the page and I'll continue trying to get more to like it as well. Can we just clone you? Somehow? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivjov Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yes because it's so easy for us to track when someone posts a flyer at a grocery store. You're throwing out these suggestions but you don't take logistics into account. How do we measure that kind of thing? "I told three of my friends about it!" Uh, okay? "I put up a flyer, here's a picture." Okay, we'll add it to our database of real space promotional tracking!!!!!!!!The entire point in getting people to follow the OCR page on Facebook is so that we can continue to promote and inform people about music that comes out in the future in an effortless and direct manner. It gives us a way to interact with people very quickly, as soon as new music is posted. Nobody is unfairly barred from anything. The album isn't out yet. Nobody except staff has access to it. You don't get preferential treatment because you happen to participate. Once the target is hit, everyone gets the album. And people accuse me of hating fun. Are you for real? I recommend things like flyers and IRL Word of Mouth as things you can suggest to people who like this site. A way for people without Facebook to contribute. It doesn't have to "count" toward anything (as I feel this 27,000 Like campaign to be misguided from the start) but rather just be something people do out of the goodness of their hearts. The staff of OCRemix could even participate by designing a standardized flyer people can print out and post. And yes, I am for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 designate a single person to serve as "fan relations" and have all statements come through them A community isn't a community if those "in charge" aren't actually people talking to you like people. Do you really want "We have received your complaint and will see that someone responds to this immediately. Failing that, please take a look at our FAQ section"? I really don't think driving home a distinction between "staff" and "fans" is really gonna help anything. I have no issues with this - i mean I like the page already... As someone keen to get more attention on social media myself I sympathise with the methods one has to use in order to get people to pay attention to you. At least OCR made it kinda fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I recommend things like flyers and IRL Word of Mouth as things you can suggest to people who like this site. A way for people without Facebook to contribute. It doesn't have to "count" toward anything (as I feel this 27,000 Like campaign to be misguided from the start) but rather just be something people do out of the goodness of their hearts. The staff of OCRemix could even participate by designing a standardized flyer people can print out and post. Alright, but that really isn't an alternative to promoting channels that allow us to directly and easily interact with people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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