OCR01404 - Secret of Mana "Dragon Song"

[SirRus]

Harmony has made some absolutely amazing OCR mixes and the best part about it is I like each new release by him better than the last. And that is insane for me cause I fell in love with Nighttime Evolution the first time I heard it. I must say I concur with the words of analoq that you are the man now, dog.

[joe_cam]

Hey look, time to join the minority and state that I don't like this song and I don't see why it's getting so much hype and/or praise.

Guess it's just me and a few select others, but I've seen better songs, better SoM songs, and better impersonations of Joshua Morse, which is who immediately came to mind when I heard this song.

Overall, nice production, and it did SOUND good, but I just didn't care for it at all and I don't see what the big deal is about.

Alright, flame the shit out of me now, I guess.

[verycleanteeth]

The instrumentation here is really excellent, but the singing bugged me a bit, and the lyrics got under my skin. Is there an instrumental version of this anywhere? Please tell me there is!

[SosusOCR]

Very Slick, I really enjoyed this track.

The vocals stared to lose it for me towards the end but thats more to my dislike of messing around with vocals than the quality of the song.

All in all its a great, not brilliant but still welcome on my Ipod.

[Harmony]

The only thing that bothers my poetic senses, at least, is the use of the phrase "my Flammie". It seems like it might make more sense to say "my dragon".

I didn't notice it until you pointed it out, but I'll agree that written down it's a little iffy.

No, no, no. You guys are missing the very poetic palendromic alliteration:

Fly me my Flammie.

FMMF. C'mon, you don't get more poetic than that. Fly me my dragon!? That's crazy talk...stop talking crazy

but I've seen better songs, better SoM songs, and better impersonations of Joshua Morse

That's an insult to both Joshua Morse and myself.

[TrueWInd]

My point was that meaning shouldn't be compromised for the sake of "poetic finesse", and indeed a part of poetic finesse is fine-tuning your devices to fit within the particular rhythm of your poem (or in this case, your song). If you've designed the line specifically to achieve that particular alliteration, then I as a listener think it is a poor choice.

As I said, however, I enjoy the song, and I will continue to listen to it.

[DCT]

Not a bad piece at all. Personally, I don't think it's as OMG AMAZING at the majority of the listeners apparently do, but it's a solid song that deserved to be on this site. Regarding any Joshua Morse 'impersonations,' I don't agree. Their voices sound somewhat alike, but that's where the similarities end for me (Josh hasn't even done any vocal remixes that I'm aware of). Anyway, that's enough of a tangent. Like I said, good stuff; Harmony should be proud...and controversy is always a good thing.

-DCT

[Harmony]

My point was that meaning shouldn't be compromised for the sake of "poetic finesse", and indeed a part of poetic finesse is fine-tuning your devices to fit within the particular rhythm of your poem (or in this case, your song). If you've designed the line specifically to achieve that particular alliteration, then I as a listener think it is a poor choice.

As I said, however, I enjoy the song, and I will continue to listen to it.

Hehe, I was only kidding with my alliteration rebuttal there. I put absolutely zero thought into most of my remix lyrics so they are essentially whatever first comes to mind after thinking about the game, the mood and the genre. Glad you enjoy the song despite its jacked up lyrics

[SirRus]

I forgot to mention in my earlier post how my favorite aspect of this track and Harmony's previous ones has been the interplay of guitar and piano. Absolutley beautiful arrangement and sound wise. The bass is always sexy in a Harmony track as well.

[djpretzel]

but I've seen better songs, better SoM songs, and better impersonations of Joshua Morse

That's an insult to both Joshua Morse and myself.

Yeah, I find some of these comments a little disturbing, because, without going into too much detail, it seems a certain group of people are intent on weighing in as a block, with very little dissent amongst their ranks. The best way to avoid the appearance of being Borg-like, cliqueish, and insecure is to ensure that group opinions don't seem consistently... organized. If people are truly about spreading "unity" and "neutrality", they should endeavour not to appear to offer up their opinion only in certain very selective contexts, simultaneously, and with the overall appearance of acting as the collective mouth of external entities. I'm all about giving people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes things are just too conspicuous to avoid commenting on... or laughing at.

Which is not to say the piece is perfect, but... claiming that it's 97% original and 3% source, or a poor imitation of Joshua Morse... these are claims that involve hyperbole (one hopes) and unnecessary external comparisons. Some of these same individuals are often rambling on about bringing the community together and unifying people - it's time to put up or shut up, walk the walk and not just talk the talk, and make a little EFFORT, otherwise such intentions come off as mere lip service...

If this is only 3% source, I failed Math and can't count. If this resembles a Joshua Morse piece, I either haven't heard it yet, or have so much wax in my ears it's amazing I'm not entirely deaf.

Partisan, partisan, partisan.

As for the Flammie bit - it appears the lyrics as posted are incomplete, as they don't include these lines. Can someone, preferably Brandon, send me an updated version?

[Hynnin]

Beautiful, everything in Harmony as every remix you do, all the game just flashed out when I first heard it, I can't lie, its on my playlist thats for sure..

[Arek the Absolute]

As for the Flammie bit - it appears the lyrics as posted are incomplete, as they don't include these lines. Can someone, preferably Brandon, send me an updated version?

I was wondering what was up with that.

[Holy Warrior Azar]

Just to clarify (for whoever may have forgotten it), this is the original melody.

http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/snes/JILost_-_SNES_-_Secret_of_Mana_-_Prophecy.mid

It is obvious in Dragon Song, right?

[Thórel Eladan]

Hey... Harmony, what a great song! I never play the game (shame on me!) so I just gave it a try and wow! totally identified with your remix! great work!

[po!]

it seems a certain group of people are intent on weighing in as a block, with very little dissent amongst their ranks. The best way to avoid the appearance of being Borg-like, cliqueish, and insecure is to ensure that group opinions don't seem consistently... organized.

it's funny that you mention that, because i was thinking the same thing with regard to all of these similar BEST SONG EVOR replies in this thread

i think it's only human nature to want to agree with your friends/peers/group and epsecially people you look up to (in this case that would be any of the judges or DJP). and i have seen this behavior on just about every internet forum i've ever visited. i wish i knew the psychological term for this....

anyways, my point is

I'm all about giving people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes things are just too conspicuous to avoid commenting on... or laughing at.

take a look in the mirror and you'll see the same thing.

just a little sumthin sumthin for you guys to think about. like i said before, this is just human nature, and hopefully if you all understand that then we will see less of this unnecessary debate in a freakin remix review thread

[GrayLightning]

it seems a certain group of people are intent on weighing in as a block, with very little dissent amongst their ranks. The best way to avoid the appearance of being Borg-like, cliqueish, and insecure is to ensure that group opinions don't seem consistently... organized.

it's funny that you mention that, because i was thinking the same thing with regard to all of these similar BEST SONG EVOR replies in this thread

i think it's only human nature to want to agree with your friends/peers/group and epsecially people you look up to (in this case that would be any of the judges or DJP). and i have seen this behavior on just about every internet forum i've ever visited. i wish i knew the psychological term for this....

anyways, my point is

I'm all about giving people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes things are just too conspicuous to avoid commenting on... or laughing at.

take a look in the mirror and you'll see the same thing.

just a little sumthin sumthin for you guys to think about. like i said before, this is just human nature, and hopefully if you all understand that then we will see less of this unnecessary debate in a freakin remix review thread

There's one major difference po!, decorum. If you are citing that several judges have praised this mix, it's only natural as several of us have heard the mix and have been waiting for it to be posted. There's a difference between that and the cloak and dagger cheap attacks against harmony, djp or this mix. There is plenty of room for disagreement and constructive criticism; but when it becomes almost malevolent and immature behavior - that is the concern we have raised. The behavior of the group djp mentioned is surprising and indeed shocking. I expected more mature behavior from fellow veterans of this scene.

[Scrobble]

note: regardless of my opinions, i have a certain level of respect for anyone who can make decent sounding music, because i can't.

as for the song: It's pretty decent. The lyrics are a bit (maybe more than a bit) cheesy. I can't give some anal 'at exactly two minutes and four point five seconds blah blah blah' review, but i liked what i heard. However. i'm not sure it's as good as it's being advertised as. I hear the original more than the exaggerated '3%', but it does seem to be a little light.

as for the debate: i think both 'sides' are being silly.

Nobody is making 'cloak and dagger cheap attacks' against anyone. As i have read they are pretty plain about their disagreements. This is most likely not the place for it, but there is no 'cloak and dagger' going on.

Nobody is in a 'block' saying, covertly or overtly, "let's all get together and bash this mix".

[po!]

There's a difference between that and the cloak and dagger cheap attacks against harmony, djp or this mix. There is plenty of room for disagreement and constructive criticism; but when it becomes almost malevolent and immature behavior - that is the concern we have raised. The behavior of the group djp mentioned is surprising and indeed shocking. I expected more mature behavior from fellow veterans of this scene.

this is what irks me. "behaviour of the group"

what GROUP? i think people may be reading too much into things and making assumptions about the actions of 2 people (Mustin and JoeCam) to represent the thoughts of an entire GROUP

you can read more about it here

http://boards.oneupstudios.com/showthread.php?t=2593

[Arcana]

what GROUP? i think people may be reading too much into things and making assumptions about the actions of 2 people (Mustin and JoeCam) to represent the thoughts of an entire GROUP

And what assumptions about what group have people made about Mustin? What, is this OCR vs. OUS? I didn't see anything on this thread that suggested that it's one group against another... a few people have denounced the sarcastic comment made by Mustin, but to me, it was a specific retort to Mustin as an individual, and not to any supposed "group" that he represents. Even if Mustin liked the song, his sarcasm suggested otherwise. In any case, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but in the interests of keeping all of the review threads beneficial, everyone who says "SONG BAD" should really be backing them up with explanations. One might wonder why "SONG GOOD" should not be similarly backed up - the song (and the artist by proxy) has already gone through a rigourous review process in the form of DJP and his Judges' panel, and thus has passed a certain baseline of "good". Also, a lot of people who visit are fans and just want to show support, which is more positive than trying to denounce an artist. It is the way of life - if you go along with a status quo, you don't need to explain in detail why you are agreeing with the status quo. If you are, however, denying the state of the current crowd, then it is in your best interest, as well as respectful to the remixer, to explain exactly why you felt that the song was not up to your personal standards.

Enough politics. This is a review thread, and I've said too much about non-review items. Let me move on to a review, then.

~~~~

I must confess that this song failed to capture my attention during my first listen. I heard the first verse, but the rest of the song failed to register in my mind as words - there's an interesting use of reverb and layering here that makes the lyrics extremely ambient - something like the soft 'oohs' and 'ahhs' that I heard from pixietricks in Journey's End.

... yes, I just compared Brandon's voice to Jill's.

I think that increasing the volume of the lyrics in the beginning may have reduced this environmental effect. I don't even think the lyrics are really meant to be listened to, myself. It's meant to be felt. This song is very interesting in that it doesn't make itself stand out unless it is listened to closely - it creeps up on you, and manages to imprint itself into your mind quietly and subtlely.

Nice drumwork, great guitar work going on here. This track has strong production. My only observable problem is the transition in metre at 2:10, which sounds almost like a skip. The transition at 2:33 with the repeating syllables - awesome. The whole original improvisation section sets up some variation in the song while keeping the mood, and again we have more of Brandon's great voice work going on.

There's a lot of variation here and this is definitely material that most people should be able to enjoy, or, at the least, understand what the hype is about. Sure, there's a lot of hype about this track, but you cannot deny that most of it is pretty deserved. The song caters to certain tastes. If you don't like it, then I would suggest that it is due to personal taste, rather than something specific that Brandon did poorly or incorrectly.

Great work.

[joe_cam]

Don't lump me in with any "groups" or anything. Just because my main message board residence is OUS doesn't mean I speak for them EVER. I was NEVER a part of OUS, I am NOT a part of OUS, I DO NOT and WILL NOT speak on behalf of OUS. Don't talk shit about OUS beause I don't like this song...

When I said Joshua Morse imitation, I mean that as soon as I heard the music and singing, the first thought in my head was "Wow...this is like Josh Morse, but not as good." and that's MY FUCKING THOUGHT. If nobody shares that with me, fine, but that's what I thought and I stand by that.

I'm not impressed by the song, I don't see what the big deal is, and if I'm an asshole for not liking it, that's pretty sad. Leave my to my opinions and you can have yours, but I'm not going to love this song because other people do. I'd say "sorry" but I have no reason to.

[herograw]

And what assumptions about what group have people made about Mustin? What, is this OCR vs. OUS? I didn't see anything on this thread that suggested that it's one group against another... a few people have denounced the sarcastic comment made by Mustin, but to me, it was a specific retort to Mustin as an individual, and not to any supposed "group" that he represents.

it seems a certain group of people are intent on weighing in as a block, with very little dissent amongst their ranks.

OHOK

What's funny is that I caught this thread right after af posted and upon reading his post and what djp had said, I was thinking "OH SHIT< DRAMA". So then I started back at page 1 and read thru, just to find that for the most part, the responses were civil and unoffensive. I'm not sure where djp is coming from here. From his response I expected some sort of mob presence.

[CPacaud]

Yep, I think some people are reading way too much into what others say. I guess some scars are still a little sensitive.

But more importantly, great work Harmony ! I love the production and instrumentation, great stuff that'll hopefully inspire everyone.

[Mustin]

Which is not to say the piece is perfect, but... claiming that it's 97% original and 3% source, or a poor imitation of Joshua Morse... these are claims that involve hyperbole (one hopes) and unnecessary external comparisons. Some of these same individuals are often rambling on about bringing the community together and unifying people - it's time to put up or shut up, walk the walk and not just talk the talk, and make a little EFFORT, otherwise such intentions come off as mere lip service...

Main Entry: hy·per·bo·le

Pronunciation: hI-'p&r-b&-(")lE

Function: noun

Etymology: Latin, from Greek hyperbolE excess, hyperbole, hyperbola, from hyperballein to exceed, from hyper- + ballein to throw -- more at DEVIL

: extravagant exaggeration (as "mile-high ice-cream cones")

Yes, spot on. A hyperbole for sure. It's obviously not a 97% to 3% ratio. But it can't be denied that there is at least half if not more original material in here than arrangement of source. And that's fine because that's how the site is run now. (And in all honesty, I'm quite sure I've done worse | see: "Team Gato")

But more and more, the site seems to have gotten away from the man who started it. Maybe I'm reading into things, and maybe this is the way it was meant to be, but it's a far departure from times when djpretzel would post a song because he liked the song. And I'm glad to see him gushing about this one. As he said, it's part of the reason he started the site. But my problem is that everything seems to be in the hands of the judges where "covers" no matter how good they are, will be tossed aside. If we went through and cleaned everything out before the lock down (which I know they did to some degree), so many of the songs that we know and love would be gone. For me, while I enjoy the original material, I'd still like to hear a good cover once-in-a-while and I think most other people would like to hear that too.

So it's not some site war or anything as many people - well, as it seems many people would wish it to be. It's just me making a quasi-crack on Harmony's piece regarding the secret formula to get on OCR. Nevermind the fact that you need to have a good song in the eyes of the judges.

I'm not sure what else I can do to "put up or shut up, walk the walk and not just talk the talk, and make a little EFFORT." It seems like I've been doing that since the start. I've made a vailant effort to bring people together. Of course, I've gotten frustrated at times (see: "Bubble's Decision"), but it's natural for people to be frustrated (given that most don't have to make a song for it, but me being a musician, well, I express myself through music so sue me

I don't know what else I can do when I can't even get a song past the judge's panel anyway

As for Harmony's track - I like it a lot. I've been listening to it most of the day. I think Harmony needs to roll off the low end in his voice because it gets really boomy somewhere between 250 and 1000 (this is in the "Sonic" mix too), and I think the piano could be a better sample, but overall, good production and a great piece of work.

Sure I could have said that from the get-go, but that wouldn't have been much fun, would it

[Jillian Aversa]

I’ve been a puddle of teary goo ever since I first heard this piece. Couldn’t even post an appropriate review till now—just needed some time to…solidify.

I could go on and on about the technical quality, the beautiful skill Brandon demonstrates in arranging, playing, and singing alike... But he knows it already, and I don’t think that’s what he was looking for when he created this piece. To concentrate on those things would be almost degrading to the music itself. Instead, I’m going to share how this piece touched me.

I’ve been best friends with this girl since first grade. We aren’t the kind to talk about personal stuff together, really, because we share such a powerful bond that words aren’t necessary. But once, when we were much younger, we had a bad fight one night when I was sleeping over at her house. So we sat for hours, not saying a word to each other, at opposite corners of the room. And then she just said, “Sometimes I wish I could fly away to a magical place.” I looked at her, and we both burst out in tears—just sitting there, hugging and crying for the longest time, balled up under her little desk.

This song brought out that memory for me. It’s such a simple thought: if only we could fly away, all our problems would be left behind. But when Theresa said those words that night, I knew what she really meant. We were each other’s magical places. We were each other’s dragons, friends, escapes. And even after all the hard things we’ve been through in the past few years, we still have that incredible love to depend on.

This music breathes. It reminds me why I’m here, why I want to be a performer, why I get up every morning… And I feel silly for posting all this on a review thread in OCR of all places, but…no, I don’t. God. This is what it’s all about. Thank you.

[Patrick Burns]

Harmony, what kind of setup do you use to record your guitar?