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Blue_Drac

Opinion: Commercialism on a FREE site

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None of our albums in the works have any plans to be commercial, and it's something that would need to be clarified at the outset and would require a motivator like Capcom's involvement.

Aww man, so you mean my plan to sell Shell Shocked as a 4-disc special edition DVD/Bluray won't happen?

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Aww man, so you mean my plan to sell Shell Shocked as a 4-disc special edition DVD/Bluray won't happen?

I'm guessing this also puts a halt to the rumors of Michael Bay doing a film adaptation of the FFII project

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Nintendo monetizes Let's Plays on youtube so I'm not surprised they'd put some free fan arrangements on in their store. Just sayin. :-) I'm actually surprised they aren't monetizing those or asking the arrangers to pay them

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I'm just waiting for the day when Nintendo walks over to ocremix and is like "WE LOVE YOU WE WANT AN OFFICIAL REMIX ALBUM FROM YOU"

which will never happen but I can dream

Who knows, maybe they'll appreciate an official album from OCR, when the time comes. Dreaming is good - since sometimes dreams come true. If Capcom sets a nice little precedent with this album, more companies may want to officially endorse albums in the future, which is not a bad thing at all.

As far as this album goes, I'm surprised that people are shocked that this topic came up - I personally thought it would generate more anger than the FF6 kickstarter, but most people seem to be quite understanding of it (which is awesome). Like DjP said, it's actually nice that Blue_Drac came out and asked about it since it puts the question on the table, allowing the staff to answer questions on it, rather than simply walking away from the site, so I give kudos to that. I just hope the initial reaction doesn't turn him off to the site or it's music in the future.

I don't think I can add anything that hasn't already been said, so look at DjP and LT's posts, if y'all want answers to the OP's question :P

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Who knows, maybe they'll appreciate an official album from OCR, when the time comes.

Well, I hope some of the rest of us who don't normally get invited to participate on them will be able to do so by then. :P

Yes, I'm still jealous I didn't get to be on the Capcom one. You don't need to point it out, I just pointed it out for you. >:V

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Well, I hope some of the rest of us who don't normally get invited to participate on them will be able to do so by then. :P

*Shrug* Which is most of us. Sometimes, though, it's just easier to enjoy what's there rather than getting upset at what we missed - life is more pleasant that way.

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Well, I hope some of the rest of us who don't normally get invited to participate on them will be able to do so by then. :P

Yes, I'm still jealous I didn't get to be on the Capcom one. You don't need to point it out, I just pointed it out for you. >:V

Our next commercial album will be 900 tracks to get every ReMixer in.

Cost: $449.99.

:tomatoface:

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In a parallel timeline, if Capcom approached OCR for help with this commemorative album and did not offer to make it commercial, there would be a thread protesting about this big company coming back to get more free marketing juice from a willing community.

Blue_drac obviously cares -- it's a legitimate issue for a community that thrives on goodwill and shared interests. But OCR isn't just a gathering; it's a digital machine created and maintained by some relatively modest people, and there are real risks and sacrifices involved in that time investment. Not only that, but the risk is quietly and gladly assumed by those parties (or pretzels). Adding a dash of 'transaction' into the mix of 'donation/goodwill' merely serves to provide a little predictability here and there.

I trust the staff to make awesome choices. I even feel weird saying that -- no referendum is in order here, not in my opinion.

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While I expected some fanboy resistance to my orignal post, I didn't quite expect the vitriol in the following remarks.

http://ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=943469&postcount=21

and

http://ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=943502&postcount=29

My goal was to start an intelligent conversation, and I tried to phrase my initial opinion as non-confrontational as possible and it was gracefully answered in several replies by many of the more respected members and, most thankfully, by DJP himself.

I suppose that, if offered, and I had the skills and resources, that I would jump on this project without a second thought. I recognize that. But on the same token, after 10+ years (I'd lurked for about a year, downloading before registering), it was a bit of a shock and perhaps a knee-jerk fear reaction.

Mainly because I'd honestly miss gathering the remixes if all future releases became commercialized.

Either way, I can live without this 1% and still enjoy the other 99.

Oh ... and Lyrai ... I'm probably old enough to be your father. I don't need mom's credit card. I have three of my own.

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Mainly because I'd honestly miss gathering the remixes if all future releases became commercialized.

The backlash was largely BECAUSE it was a knee-jerk reaction, and a particularly nonsensical one. Where would you even get this idea that all future stuff will be commercialized? If you're as old as you say you are, I wonder even more why your response to it seemed as childish as it was.

I use that term only because I can't think of a less antagonizing one. I'm not interested in antagonizing you, but if this is intelligent conversation, I'd be interested in dissecting the logic for it. Why would this one project, a special case if ever there was one here, be such a turn-off? Why do you feel like a website that's provided more than a decade's worth of free entertainment is still obligated to do things the way YOU want it?

I just don't get the argument that "it's the principle of the thing". That just sounds like a substitute for an excuse. It's not even your principle.

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Oh ... and Lyrai ... I'm probably old enough to be your father. I don't need mom's credit card. I have three of my own.

If you felt the need that your post wouldn't be complete with a jab like this, then no, you're not old enough to be anyone's father. Or at the very least, you don't act like it.

Meteo Xavier covered it pretty well. Your original post...came off like...a 10 year old kid whining about suddenly being asked to contribute. If you...really intended better...you could have sat down and thought it out a bit more.

You mentioned "selling out" in the first post, which is a pretty huge fucking insult to the hard work everyone who has contributed to this site, both technologically and musically. When you can go into McDonalds and get a DJPretzelMeal with your little DarkeSword bobblehead toy, wearing your WillRocks, then you can bitch about "selling out."

Since you refuse to buy it, I think I'll go and buy two, and hand one out as a Christmas Gift to someone.

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You're not being asked to contribute.

IT'S RIGHT THERE ON SOUNDCLOUD. FOR FREE. THE WHOLE DAMN THING.

OCR's about free fan music

IT'S RIGHT THERE ON SOUNDCLOUD. FOR FREE. THE WHOLE DAMN THING.

I don't see what part of ocr's mission statement or "principles" is being violated. I just don't.

@Lyrai: I would kill to have a little Neblix LCD racing game McDonalds toy.

Edited by Neblix

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I don't get why you guys still jumping down the guys throat. He posted something incidentally controversial, everyone, even DjP, responded with their views, and the guy conceded his point after seeing how the community responded. Let's leave this be without it becoming an extreme name-calling, 'killer studio chops'-esque derailed thread.

The only thing we've gathered from these abusive comments is that everyone is an asshole looking to bring down someone who might not understand a certain point of view. But now he has seen this point of view, and he has left with something new.

If you felt the need that your post wouldn't be complete with a jab like this, then no, you're not old enough to be anyone's father. Or at the very least, you don't act like it.

You brought up his age, so the pots calling kettle black. Now, he could have left it there, but you ad hominem-ed in a thread specific titled 'Opinion,' so you sorta had it coming.

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I don't get why you guys still jumping down the guys throat. He posted something incidentally controversial, everyone, even DjP, responded with their views, and the guy conceded his point after seeing how the community responded. Let's leave this be without it becoming an extreme name-calling, 'killer studio chops'-esque derailed thread.

The only thing we've gathered from these abusive comments is that everyone is an asshole looking to bring down someone who might not understand a certain point of view. But now he has seen this point of view, and he has left with something new.

You brought up his age, so the pots calling kettle black. Now, he could have left it there, but you ad hominem-ed in a thread specific titled 'Opinion,' so you sorta had it coming.

Multiple part answer!

As for the jumping down the throat, I'd wager that came from the direct accusation of selling out. I mean, read the first post. It comes off as, and I mean this as neutral as I can, a youtube comment. He says in the first post that the efforts of the people on the album are inherently cheapened and worse by the simple fact that money changed hands, and he did so in an extremely immature and knee-jerk reaction. Here, I'll bust out a better post that would have probably been much better recieved:

The thread title states my thoughts on one line, but let me expand.

I'm all for commercial success, really. It's good to make money, people like making money. But in the 10 years of coming to OC Remix, this is the first time I've ever seen them directly charge for remixes, and I don't like that.

Will this be the future of OC Remix? I've donated before, but I don't think I could support the site moving to a for-pay model. I understand again that you have to make money, but I disagree with this transition - I will not be purchasing the Mega Man album.

Exact same information is conveyed, but the tone is better. The ugly phrase 'selling out' is removed, it is much more coherent, it is respectful while still explaining his beef.

As for the pot saying the kettle is of an ebony-hued persuasion, I again state, his initial response - and frankly, his follow up response of "NUH-UH!" - really did sound like something straight off YouTube. As in he was literally angry about this sudden change because it was something that could not be acquired (easily) for free.

Is everyone here (self included?) being a bit of an asshole? Yes. Does this vitriolic reaction come out of left field, or is it based a bit more on the initial accusations lobbed, coupled with the natural personalities of people here? Probably the latter. People in general don't like being told that just because they're accepting money for something, the quality of the work is degraded and not worth as much as something for free, that money somehow "cheapens" it.

I wouldn't call it abusive, unless we hound him with this thread until his dying day. He fucked up, got called for it, people forget about it in a week, unless it's Killer Studio Technomanga.

Alternatively: I'll ad-hominem your face.

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We are clearly taking different tones from this guys original post, so I'm willing to drop this because it's all conjecture at this point. I didn't think he sounded childish, but you did, and when you called him childish, two different branches of what happened stemmed off, and everything went downhill. I don't really want to end with "opinions are opinions," but I really don't think we'll convince each other about what the situation is.

Alternatively: I'll ad-hominem your face.

Well that's just not nice :)

I just hope hard feelings are not taken from this thread or given by anyone. From my point of view, it's all harmless opinion and the album wouldn't have gotten the $10 whether or not the topic was made in the first place.

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If you don't want to get flamed, don't post a flaming OP.

You would think this is a sensible rule to live by. :sleepzzz:

Come to think of it, no dogpiling actually happened until somebody said "I wonder if this will end up like killer studio technomanga". Saying that is antagonistic and should be called out, because the OP wasn't nearly as stupid as what happened in those other threads, and comparing his post to that really is what started the negativity/super sarcasm/memeification.

It was mostly actual refutation of the OP's complaints (OCR still doing free music, selling out is an exaggeration, etc.) up until that post.

Edited by Neblix

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Lyrai, I'm definitely NOT above trolling right back :lol:, but oftentimes when encountering douchey/accusatory/bad faith comments, it's just better to distill the nonsense away and just address the perceived problem rather than be hung up about the tone. Sometimes the tone is caused solely just because of a misunderstanding. Better to give folks one chance to either soften the tone OR double down.

Also, Nabeel, calm down. e-Teeth gnashing (CAPS CAPS CAPS) is unnecessary (and dumb).

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OP: think.

Capcom approached OCR about doing this album. Capcom is a for-profit entity. OCR is a non-profit entity. In order for a non-profit entity to work with the intellectual property of a for-profit entity, one would figure that some exchanging of money would be involved.

When Capcom approaches you to write an album for them, one which involves creating remixes (an OCR tradition!) of a beloved franchise, you don't say no. It's a rare, exciting opportunity. Part of seizing that opportunity is to agree to the necessary and reasonable condition which Capcom set forth: allowing OCR the license to remix their intellectual property for profit for both the artists and the owners.

There is nothing wrong with musicians being paid for writing music, and there is especially nothing wrong with the owners of said music granting us permission to remix their awesome tunes, sell them, and give them their due cut. It's disgustingly legal and reasonable.

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