Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[Drack]

My pals and I are kicking ass on netplay for Smash 64.

Get better friends.

What emulator allows for netplay?

[Red Shadow]

lolol you keep talking about how your friends think you would do good in tournaments because your ness is too good, but you don't know. why dont you just go to a tournament and find out? its fun

a mention every six or so months doesnt really seem like i "keep" talking about it to me

find me a tournament in the north-central florida area and i'll go see how i do, but i dont really want to travel all too far somewhere just to play a video game

[Pi_R_Squared]

www.smashboards.com

Look at characters you like, FAQs for how to play them, and the beginner videos to show you how to do stuff like Wavedashes and Techs

That's the problem. There's people that want to have fun when playing (the way it's supposed to be), and people who take things seriously enough to study the game bit-by-bit, until they've mastered a character or two, without the use of items, on Hyrule Castle. Granted, there are exceptions, but, c'mon, it's just no fun to play against someone who takes it that seriously,

EDIT: Unless you train enough to get that good yourself, that is.

[Global-Trance]

I need more GOOD people to play Smash Melee with. Come play in Santa Barbara with me if you're arounnnnnnnnnd.

[Mr.Roboto]

ed;237111']That's the problem. There's people that want to have fun when playing (the way it's supposed to be)' date=' and people who take things seriously enough to study the game bit-by-bit, until they've mastered a character or two, without the use of items, on Hyrule Castle. Granted, there are exceptions, but, c'mon, it's just no fun to play against someone who takes it that seriously,

EDIT: Unless you train enough to get that good yourself, that is.[/quote']

Why are people who play only on specific stages (Hyrule Castle) with no items even considered great in general?

Wow,You're good at the game,so what?You eliminated game mechanics to do so.(Environmental Hazards and Items.)While most players will say "But that simply adds luck!" Tell me this:When it comes down two players of the exact same "skill level" what does this fight come down to?Dumb luck thats what.Waiting for the first player to make the first mistake.

[G_D]

A lot of people at my school hate items. I'm fine either way, but I think that items add a lot of fun to the game.

[KWarp]

A lot of people at my school hate items. I'm fine either way, but I think that items add a lot of fun to the game.

I have no fun without items. Then again I play as Kirby...

[atmuh]

stop being a baby and turn the freaking items on and stop whining about some stages being unfair yes i know this is said a lot and i dont care so i am saying it again go ahead and start arguing with me

[Akaisen]

Why are people who play only on specific stages (Hyrule Castle) with no items even considered great in general?

Wow,You're good at the game,so what?You eliminated game mechanics to do so.(Environmental Hazards and Items.)While most players will say "But that simply adds luck!" Tell me this:When it comes down two players of the exact same "skill level" what does this fight come down to?Dumb luck thats what.Waiting for the first player to make the first mistake.

The two players in this instance want to find out who is better at the game. When a player makes the first mistake more often than the other, the other is probably the better player. Honestly, even if they did not eliminate the environmental hazards and items the results would still be the same. Having those things included, however, will only get in the way of finding out who is better.

My friends who I played this game with basically all started at about the same skill level and were pretty competitive. So, with items on, we would play and it would be a very close game, but then someone would get a legendary pokeball or a starman or a heart or something that would give an outrageous advantage to one player, allowing them to take victory. To competitive players like us, having a game end in this way is like ending a close game of basketball suddenly with a coin flip; it is an unsatisfying ending. Having all been on the receiving end of having a victory by merit snatched away by chance, we turned off the items. Since the battles after that were decided primarily by who was the better player, our skill continued to improve. We did not spend long hours "training" to become good, it is just a thing that happened.

I realize that people like to play with the items on and it is fun in a more random way like how mario party is fun, I am just hoping to give some insight as to why people like to play with no items, etc.

To answer your question, "Why are people who play only on specific stages (Hyrule Castle) with no items even considered great in general?" It is because the people who are considered great are extremely skilled at the game, and they play with those restrictions to increase fairness to both opponents.

[Cecilff2]

I love playing Starfoxes Corneria with all freezies and set to high. See how many times you can kill your opponents by freezing them onto a passing arwing which promptly flies upwards.

[linkspast]

I love playing Starfoxes Corneria with all freezies and set to high. See how many times you can kill your opponents by freezing them onto a passing arwing which promptly flies upwards.

Yeha I love to do things like that..

Such as lighting mode with only fox and rabbit ears.

It be cool if you could save your own presets.

[wormguy]

Items and hazardous environments make the game.

I'm so sick of people who will only play on Hyrule Castle or other huge boring maps. The fight always degenerates into a run-away-when-I-have-high-damage fest. Where's the fun in that? A good player should be able to adapt to any situation, hazard or item.

[The Mutericator]

Items and hazardous environments make the game.

I'm so sick of people who will only play on Hyrule Castle or other huge boring maps. The fight always degenerates into a run-away-when-I-have-high-damage fest. Where's the fun in that? A good player should be able to adapt to any situation, hazard or item.

I completely agree. Personally, I think being a good player is all about being able to use items and stage hazards to your advantage when possible. It's like saying, "Hey, I can beat you at Street Fighter 2, but we have to play Ryu and Ken and use only Hadokens." It's stupid.

Skill should be a matter of using everything to your advantage, not eliminating much of the game's main elements.

[Solid Krono]

The two players in this instance want to find out who is better at the game. When a player makes the first mistake more often than the other, the other is probably the better player. Honestly, even if they did not eliminate the environmental hazards and items the results would still be the same. Having those things included, however, will only get in the way of finding out who is better.

...

To answer your question, "Why are people who play only on specific stages (Hyrule Castle) with no items even considered great in general?" It is because the people who are considered great are extremely skilled at the game, and they play with those restrictions to increase fairness to both opponents.

Overall I completely agree with you. I will just point out though that there are plenty of items that don't really achieve giving one player a big advantage, which is why you have the ability to turn off individual items. I'm not trying to argue or anything, but there are just way too many people that won't even keep some of the lesser items on for fun because they "taint" the games. Kinda stupid IMO but whatever makes them happy. I just started to get really bored of the games with my friends after having items off for like... a year. We decided to turn them on and I thought "holy crap this is fun" lol.

[TheCatPhysician]

stop being a baby and turn the freaking items on and stop whining about some stages being unfair yes i know this is said a lot and i dont care so i am saying it again go ahead and start arguing with me

sup

but seriously, the game can be played 2 different ways. i dont see why that's so hard to accept. items are in the game, so is the option to turn them off. im fine knowing that some people play the game different than the way i do, and use items and crazy stages. im glad they are enjoying the game. you're the one whos saying "NO EVERYONE MUST PLAY THE WAY I DO" so who's the baby? lolz

to put this into perspective, imagine a couple grandmasters or something playing chess ultra-competitively. now imagine a new type of chess where completely random things that you can't control happen, like certain pieces suddenly getting different characteristics, or something like that. you just cant play that way competitively. sure the new chess would be fun for people who just want to mess with the game, but imagine it from the competitive player's perspective.

Wow,You're good at the game,so what?You eliminated game mechanics to do so.(Environmental Hazards and Items.)While most players will say "But that simply adds luck!" Tell me this:When it comes down two players of the exact same "skill level" what does this fight come down to?Dumb luck thats what.Waiting for the first player to make the first mistake.

ok you might want to think about this a little more.

look, the goal of this game is to knock your opponent off the stage. usually a good place to start is hitting him. BUT! there's a problem: he doesn't want you to hit him, and in fact, he wants to hit YOU. so it's not as simple as just running up and hitting your opponent with whatever you want, right? you at first might want to say "alright, i want to hit him, so im gonna run up there and mash A." but if he knows that's coming, he can easily counter this, instead of just doing the same thing as you.

so let's recap: the goal is to knock you're opponent off the stage, and you're going to want to start by hitting him. but hitting him isn't so easy, is it? surprising. in order to land a hit on him, you're going to have to OUT MINDGAME HIM. you can make him think you're just going to run in with a dash attack, but really you've already got a counter set up for his counter. and then another aspect is this: when you land a hit on your opponent, you can COMBO into something else. so these two things generally dictate how much damage you can do to your opponent: how often you beat him in mindgames and how well you take advantage of winning the mindgame by following up with combos.

obviously when pros play, the mindgames are much more intricate then just counters for dash attacks. and they have combos memorized for almost all situations, and are always improving their combo game to best take advantage of anytime they win a mindgame. so the point is, when the two players are having a mind game, trying to land a hit, eventually one person will get hit. and they got hit for one of two reasons: they either messed up what they were trying to do (like failing the execution of a move) or they LOST the mindgame. WHAT?! you mean they can't just tell their opponent the reason they're winning because they got lucky? wtf no johns?!?! yes, they got beat fair and square. "but what about the other option?" you might ask. "if my opponent only landed a hit on me because i messed up, then just got more lucky then me! that's not fair!" look, tubby. it's like this: how often you mess up is dictated by how much you practice. why would someone ever practice in the first place? other than experimenting to find new things, it's to be consistent with what they can do. so they don't mess up as often. if someone practices more than you, then you can't complain about them being more lucky then you. luck has nothing to do with it. it's like a person who doesn't really play piano complaining that it isn't fair how much better dhsu is than them. he practices more, so he's better.

now if two people who play competitively have to play with items on, that completely ruins the fairness. what happens if at the end of a close match, the match is ended because a crate dropped on someone's head? when someone has practiced their combos to perfection, having certain combos prepared for every situation, is it fair that random items or random things in the stage ruin their combos?

we play our we, you play yours. why do people who play casually want everyone who plays competitively to play with items and chaotic stages? that's kind of greedy. you want the game to be ruined for the entire tournament scene, just so you can be happy knowing that everyone in the world plays the game the way you do? oh well, doesn't matter becaues it's not happening.

also wtf is with this hyrule crap haha hyrule sucks

[wormguy]

Your argument is flawed because items present mind games much in the same way that a fist fight does. Will I slash you with the beam sword? Will I dodge and throw it at you instead? You get the idea.

It's not like items are completely random either - they're designed to fit within the game mechanics. You can hardly say that there are overpowered items, because all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Removing items in Smash Bros. is like removing supers in Street Fighter. You're eliminating a huge part of the gameplay. If people want to bitch and moan about the "cheapness" of items, that's their problem. You didn't counter the item's effect correctly, so you lost. Deal.

Also, capitalizing things makes them easier to read, especially in a giant post like that.

[TheCatPhysician]

Also, capitalizing things makes them easier to read, especially in a giant post like that.

Sorry.

Your argument is flawed because items present mind games much in the same way that a fist fight does. Will I slash you with the beam sword? Will I dodge and throw it at you instead? You get the idea.

First of all, certain characters DO naturally have items/projectiles, but these characters are meant to have the items they have, and were taken into the consideration of the balance of the game. "Will I slash you with the beam sword?" That's pretty much saying "Am I going to use a close range attack?" Only certain characters were designed to be able to pose the question, "Will I attack you close range or use a projectile?"

It's not like items are completely random either - they're designed to fit within the game mechanics. You can hardly say that there are overpowered items, because all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Items are COMPLETELY random. So are the crates that drop out of nowhere and tend to drop right on one player's head.

Removing items in Smash Bros. is like removing supers in Street Fighter. You're eliminating a huge part of the gameplay.

I hear people say this all the time; items are part of the game, and you're taking them out. Now, try to be open minded about this. Items throw off the balance of the game. BADLY. Does this matter for people who play casually and don't care? NO. So these people can play with items - it makes the game more fun for them. I'm perfectly fine with that. More power to them. But Melee is able to be played like a party game, AND a competitive fighter. Listen:

Items were put into the game.

So was the option to turn them off.

This isn't rocket science, folks. People can play casually or seriously.

If people want to bitch and moan about the "cheapness" of items, that's their problem.

Items throw off the balance of the game, that's a fact. Some people don't like this, and they have good reason, for the way they play. Remember what I said about the Chess players? This is ridiculous. I mean if they made a version of Chess that had lots of fun random things that happened, some people would like it more than regular Chess. There are a lot of people who are very competitive with Chess though, so obviously there would be people who play regular Chess, and people who play chaotic Chess. That should be fine with everyone. You can choose which way you wish to play. But for the chaotic Chess players to demand that chaotic Chess be the only way to play is outrageous! Why would they want to ruin it for the people who play competitively?

You didn't counter the item's effect correctly, so you lost. Deal.

You can't always counter the item's effect correctly. Crates randomly fall on people's heads. Also, like I said earlier, certain items with certain characters completely throw off the balance of the game. Marth for instance has no projectiles, but for a reason. His attacks have incredible range, and he has really good priority. In terms of balance, he sacrifices projectiles for something else. If two Marth players who have practiced everything they could and had all the best combos for every single situation memorized and everything, a ray gun or something just being randomly handed to one of them is ridiculous.

Items are completely random, and it's not a matter of having to be good enough to deal with them. Go give a grandmaster of Chess a version of this chaotic chess with random crap that happens and say "Hey, if you're actually good you'd be able to deal with the randomness." It doesn't work like that.

[Pi_R_Squared]

Items are completely random, and it's not a matter of having to be good enough to deal with them. Go give a grandmaster of Chess a version of this chaotic chess with random crap that happens and say "Hey, if you're actually good you'd be able to deal with the randomness." It doesn't work like that.

Well, yeah. But it's not like every time you start a game, the amp is re-arranged, either. Items can throw a curve that adds the need for adaptation. If a Marth player is given a ray gun, and the opponent is a serious enough player to give a crap, he also should care enough to have trained to the point that it doesn't matter what the enemy has.

'sides, he could always just run to the other side of Hyrule Castle.

[Red Shadow]

all this argument about whats what in tournament play is part of the reason i dont care all that much to participate in it, by the way

[Dexie]

I hear people say this all the time; items are part of the game, and you're taking them out. Now, try to be open minded about this. Items throw off the balance of the game. BADLY. Does this matter for people who play casually and don't care? NO. So these people can play with items - it makes the game more fun for them. I'm perfectly fine with that. More power to them. But Melee is able to be played like a party game, AND a competitive fighter. Listen:

Yeah, cause we all know how balanced Melee is, even without items.

[FuriousFure]

I mean if they made a version of Chess that had lots of fun random things that happened, some people would like it more than regular Chess. There are a lot of people who are very competitive with Chess though, so obviously there would be people who play regular Chess, and people who play chaotic Chess. That should be fine with everyone. You can choose which way you wish to play. But for the chaotic Chess players to demand that chaotic Chess be the only way to play is outrageous! Why would they want to ruin it for the people who play competitively?

first of all. what your saying with the chess analogy is that SSB was balanced before the addition of items in the programming stage. like taking chess then adding randomness. you see, ssb was made with the randomness in mind. it's a part of the game.

the fact that you can turn the items off doesn't make no-item games be the "serious" game. turning them off just shows the customization that is optional. all poke-balls? sure! hammers and stars? suure! nothing at all? sure! everything on high? absolutely! if you think the game was meant to be played no-items why does it come with the settings on medium with everything on? if you think that the games is super unbalance with items, what you are saying that ssb is unbalanced completely. items help those characters round themselve out.

if your truely want be good at the game, you need to know how to fight without a weapon because the items are random, but that is a part of the game. to say one variant of the games original state is idiotic. why not just say Giant Melee is the true way of playing? or One Button Melee? why not One Button Melee? you know, because those other buttons just throw off the balance of the game.

[chrono26]

Yeah, cause we all know how balanced Melee is, even without items.

thats true but even the charecters that they make too good have a weakness of some kind. for example fox is way too fast and can get smashes off easily, but he falls like an anchor. but still the game is far from "balanced" and thats all part of the fun.

[Akaisen]

There seem to be a lot of people who like items taking offense at people saying "playing without items is the true way to play." I do not think anyone is actually saying this.

What we are trying to say is that in a tournament where the point is to determine who is the best - doesn't it make more sense to limit random aspects to increase fairness to both players?

What would the benefit to turning the items on be in a tournament? People have said that a good player should be able to compensate for unexpected developments and this is true. But, I don't think you would disagree that enabled items can randomly give a benefit to a player, and that it would not necessarily balance out over the course of a few games. It a contest with a large prize at stake, do you really think such a way of playing would be fair?

[cobaltstarfire]

Items are COMPLETELY random. So are the crates that drop out of nowhere and tend to drop right on one player's head.

I thought you could turn off crates/barrels? I can't honestly remember, haven't touched the game in about a year and a half...

[Akaisen]

I thought you could turn off crates/barrels? I can't honestly remember, haven't touched the game in about a year and a half...

If any item is turned on then crates/barrels are also turned on.