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djpretzel

OCR01495 - Chrono Trigger "Town Life"

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I normally don't try to defend myself, but Pretzel, I did not present myself as an "unquestionable authority". I don't even know how you got that impression. I'm someone on a website commenting on a piece. I know this, you know this, and therefore there is no possible way that I could be an unquestionable authority. Just because I state my opinions very clearly and solidly (even when they're based on stupid reasons and I come back and say as much) does not mean that I am trying to be some sort of unquestionable authority.

Anyway, to address the problems.

You're right about the recording thing. I shouldn't have said that it was poor but rather that it could have been better. My apologies.

There is definitely vibrato, though. Your definition of vibrato is incorrect as well - it doesn't have to be deliberate. Here's what Webster has to say about this.

"a slightly tremulous effect imparted to vocal or instrumental tone for added warmth and expressiveness by slight and rapid variations in pitch"

Nothing about intention. To impart does not mean that it's intentional. If you want to have a dictionary war... well, I don't want to. So if you want to win this point, I'll let you. Even if it's because you're an untrained singer, it's an issue. That's an explanation but not an excuse. As for your comment about the opinions of other vocal-steeped individuals... well, if you're asking for me to site sources and stuff for things that all people don't readily know, then you need to go ahead and get them to say it. I don't doubt that they will, but I expect the same courtesy from you that you would expect from me.

My saying "very, very, very wrong" was stupid. Simple as that. I should have said that it was simply wrong but I obviously got rather carried away. And just because folk artists have existed for a long time doesn't prevent a revival. That's just silly. As for naming bands and statistics... well, I'm writing a casual review, not a thesis. If you want evidence, go find it. If you ask for it, I'll try to help find it, but otherwise I simply don't have the time or patience at 3:00 in the morning. Anyway, I looked into this a bit more and I was only half right. Psych-folk has seen a revival lately. Oh well. You did say 'sweeping the nation' and I can't prove that it is (mostly because it isn't.)

Getting upset about the 'Yup' thing is kind of silly. I end most of my things by saying 'Yup.' Or 'So... yeah.' Or some other stupid thing. It's just a habit.

I make no apologies for saying I'm way, way, way too critical. I am. That's why we're having this discussion in the first place. As for your comment about me being "too, too, too triune" - well, grow up. That's an extremely childish attack. I have not once made a personal attack on you. I may have attacked your work, but not your person. Get over it.

Your lyrics still don't make sense, in my opinion. You can explain them like that and they make sense after that explanation, but I showed your lyrics to a number of my friends (one a literary enthusiast, one a music enthusiast, the others just casual music listeners) and not one of them understood what you were saying. I don't mean that as in the whole thing is a big garbled mess of nonsense, but rather that there a number of sentences in the whole that are nonsense. Enough so that it gets confusing. The thing about the metaphor is still a problem, by the way. Just because other artists do it doesn't make it right and doesn't mean that you did it well. I still think it sounded random and weird.

I shouldn't have said the Yoda thing. That was mean-spirited of me. I'm sorry.

You're right about the 'recalls' issue. I didn't realize it could be used that way. I still think it sounds weird, but that's my personal opinion. And just because I don't like something doesn't mean that I have to correct it. It's your work, so if someone doesn't like it, it's your job to fix it (if you think it's worth fixing). Just because I don't like something doesn't mean I have to find a way to make it better, especially when it's someone else's creative property.

I'm glad that you appreciate the detailed criticism even though you don't seem to like it. The poetic license you took on the lyrics was used to the extent that it became confusing (and not just to me, but a number of people). I consider that an issue. I did not say any of your issues could be easily fixed, so please don't put words in my mouth. I don't have to provide examples for you because I'm not trying to offer advice, I'm trying to offer an opinion. Your piece is done and I know that. I don't expect you to make any changes, so I'm not going to offer any changes to make. I can offer opinions on what you've already done and from that you can glean what you like. That's how the majority of critiques work outside of community forums (and within.)

Claado - Personal attacks are immature. Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean I'm "full of it".

Pretzel's second response - You did more than clarify the definition of 'recalls' and I appreciate it. It was indeed worth it.

Tash - I realize the time and effort this took. I never said anything to imply otherwise. I did do it apathetically and without intent of helping, but there's nothing wrong with that when offering opinions. I could try and excuse the apathy, but fine, I'm wrong for being apathetic and being apathetic is wrong. Not directly helping when offering an opinion, on the other hand, is completely alright.

EDIT: Yeah, wow, I totally did present myself as authoritative. My attitude wasn't at all constructive, and I behaved really inappropriately. I'm sorry. Ugh I keep reading more of this and I was really an unbearable twit. I thought for the longest time that my temporary ban was unjustified, but wow I'm embarrassed to read this stuff.

Edited by oakthielbar
I was a really, really big asshole

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I'm writing a casual review, not a thesis.

If "I'm not really being serious about this" is a reason to not criticize things, why did you write such an in-depth critique of free music posted on a fan site?

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Fusilliban said:
artemisjaeger said:
I'm writing a casual review, not a thesis.

If "I'm not really being serious about this" is a reason to not criticize things, why did you write such an in-depth critique of free music posted on a fan site?

Fine. I'm writing a review, not a thesis. I took out the word casual.

And I'm writing an in-depth critique of free music posted on a fan site because I listen to that music.

Edit: I really was a jerk. Sorry. :(

Edited by oakthielbar
I was an asshole

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I thought Dave's lyrics were not only appropriate, but actually very well written and touching.

(Although you are kinda mistaken about the term "vibrato" when it comes to vocals. I know that for synth stuff, vibrato is pitch-bending, but that's not the case with the human voice. Or at least, it shouldn't be if it's a good vocalist, hehe. It also does eventually come naturally when a voice has developed, as opposed to deliberate application. In any case, Dave's usage is very modest and fitting. ^_^)

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Brought a tear to my eye. It's beautiful... it's beautiful.

I wish it was longer, with perhaps a solo guitar portion where it ends, and a final verse thereafter. I think the recording quality is great, it gives it a sort of professional live feel; high quality, but not ultra-slicked. The vocals fit the style perfectly, and the lyrics, to me, are very touching and intelligent. While the guitar is great all round, it's, perhaps ironically, really mainly supporting the vocals.

I could really see this used as the background music in a montage in some movie, depicting the travails of a wayward son or whatnot.

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Specifics:

"Home is where I want to be but I've been torn

from out its pages for a need to be reborn

taking all of the last chances I can get

the distance multiplies in rhythm with the debt

For any prayers you send my way that I get by"

Just curious - Have you played Chrono Trigger in the first place?

Entire first part = crap. I've been torn from out its pages for a need to be reborn? That's a confusing sentence that doesn't really make sense. If you want to use a metaphor, you have to start it in order to finish it. And what about a need to be reborn? That just sounds silly.

Viewing the whole thing from context of the game, Chrono has to be 'reborn' to save the world from Lavaos.

The "torn out from its pages" doesn't click well with me, as the first sentence was refering to home, not a book. But at least it tells me that the singer feels forcefully removed from his current, pleasant situation.

Taking all of the last chances I can get? What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Chrono and his gang are essentially embarking on a desperate, do-or-die, attempt to stop Lavaos. Hence maybe the allusion to last chances.

The distance multiplies in rhythm with the debt? You're wracking up debt as you travel? What does rhythm have to do with that? Neither distance nor debt create rhythms. For any prayers you send my way that I get by... okay, that one could work if this song were by Yoda.

"In rhythm" can be a metaphorical way of speaking in relation. Perhaps "The distance multiplies in relation with the debt" sounds too much like a science question which is why this is not chosen. Perhaps, IMHO, a better idea is "The debt multipies in rhythm with distance".

In a sense, you can rack up debt as you travel. Imagine the singer leaving his friends and family behind, and as distance passes, you rake up debt in terms of emotional feelings. Your family feels your absence, and you long for them etc. etc.

This is, of course, my subjective interpertation for the lyrics. At least one people out there doesn't think it's complete nonsense. For me the lyrics make sense if you see it from the context of the plot and story of Chrono Trigger.

Just my 2 gil.

EDIT: And oh, to stay on topic. I like the lyrics. It resonates with the plot of Chrono Trigger, and sounds like something Chrono himself will say, if he could speak, that is :D

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Hey man, maybe we were all too hard on each other. I think it's a good song. You may not, that's cool. Don't feel bad about it, just remember sometimes it's better just to keep to yourself.

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Hey man, maybe we were all too hard on each other. I think it's a good song. You may not, that's cool. Don't feel bad about it, just remember sometimes it's better just to keep to yourself.

Sorry, but I gotta comment on this. This is a reviews forum. The entire point of it is to share what you think about a song.

I can't speak for Dave, or for any of the other remixers on this site, but personally, I would much prefer it if nobody ever kept to themselves what they thought of my music, be it positive or negative.

Anyway, glad you like the song :)

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This song blows chunks. The guitar playing is atrocious and I want to hump the leg of whoever played that travesty of a guitar piece.

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Hey man, maybe we were all too hard on each other. I think it's a good song. You may not, that's cool. Don't feel bad about it, just remember sometimes it's better just to keep to yourself.

Sorry, but I gotta comment on this. This is a reviews forum. The entire point of it is to share what you think about a song.

I can't speak for Dave, or for any of the other remixers on this site, but personally, I would much prefer it if nobody ever kept to themselves what they thought of my music, be it positive or negative.

Anyway, glad you like the song :)

Ditto - when I fire back at people, it's usually not because they didn't like the piece, but because they made a few remarks I thought were either debatable or simply factually incorrect. I'd still rather they have made the remarks - assuming we're not talking about flames, etc. - than not.

When someone says I'm "very, very, very wrong", I do tend to percieve that as trying to come off as an absolute authority; if you're gonna correct me to an extent that warrants three verys, be 100% right... or be prepared.

At any rate, I'm actually surprised this song didn't have MORE detractors, I'm thrilled with the response thus far, and it motivates me to do more vocal pieces in the future, and more collabs as well.

Thanks for all the feedback and comments to date.

Also, myf is a ped and faps to Lazytown.

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Dudes, I'm sorry. This remix just about made me vomit all over my iBook. I couldn't keep it to myself - I can't stand this remix. Technically, yeah, it's 'ok.' Is it different? Of, course. And that's good - people gotta express themselves and people need variety.

But, I'm not a hippy, I'm sorry. The acoustic guitar generally makes me want to vomit and this is no exception. Maybe I was beaten with an acoustic guitar when I was 2 or something... I dunno. Sorry.

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But, I'm not a hippy, I'm sorry. The acoustic guitar generally makes me want to vomit and this is no exception. Maybe I was beaten with an acoustic guitar when I was 2 or something... I dunno. Sorry.

I honestly don't know why people like you even bother writing a review if you have genre bias. You have nothing bad to say about the song on a technical basis, so why bother? Also, having comments like the song being vomit-inducing for you is about as low as you can go. If it's not your cup of tea, leave it at that. Furthermore, you don't need to a hippy to enjoy this type of music; just as I don't have to be a stoner to enjoy reggae.

Also, while I really like your new vocal work djp, I hope that you still do some funky mixes in the future. Because "Love Hurts" and "Furtuna Favors the Funk" are still among my favorites. :D

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This song is really beautyful.

DJPretzel has toped himself again.

How sang the vocals for this track???

Geoffrey Taucer or DJPretzel???

Can someone please post it, or e-mail me?? (flex_ab@gmx.netANTISPAM)delete the last 8 letters to mail me.

I play this song surly repeatedly.

Greeting to all OC-Users and DJPretzel.

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Personally, I enjoyed the original pre-vocal arrangement more. A large part of its original charm for me was the simplicity and purity of solo acoustic guitar. That's not to say this iteration wasn't good, because it was. My only additional gripe is that there were quite a few pitches that were just slightly under where they ought to be, and most of them were probably fixable. I was impressed with how well the vocals fit the target folksy style, and felt overall that it was a decent mix. I would be more impressed with the vocal pitches being fixed, though. =P

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This song is really beautyful.

DJPretzel has toped himself again.

How sang the vocals for this track???

Geoffrey Taucer or DJPretzel???

Can someone please post it, or e-mail me?? (flex_ab@gmx.netANTISPAM)delete the last 8 letters to mail me.

I play this song surly repeatedly.

Greeting to all OC-Users and DJPretzel.

As Dave said in the writeup, he did the vox and I did the guitar.

Glad you like the mix.

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This is one of those few remixes that actually brings a tear to my eye. I am a huge fan of folk guitar music, and solo guitar music in general, so this is a thing of beauty to me. I suprisingly know little of folk guitar singing so this is a welcome addition to my music library. I congratulate you Dj Pretzle and Geoffrey Taucer on a fine mix.

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In my rush to respond I didn't look at the other reviews; I hope you are receiving as warm a response as I'm getting from the song. I know singer/songwriter isn't a genre much thought of when it comes to game remixes, like you said, but this works very, very well in proving game music can go places no one expected it to. I am highly pleased, particuarly since I write from a remote geology station in the rockies and have been listening to the same six cd's for the past month. I finally found some blank disks and came here to whip up a welcome relief mix of some things I haven't heard before...and find this. Which is just what I needed. Rock operas have their place on tops of mountains under stars, but this is much more along the lines of what I'd hoped to find. Thank you so much for setting it out here despite your doubts about the genre's reception.

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I personally love this song, its wonderful^_^ I stumbled upon it by chance, but I'm a big Chrono fan and a fan of some folk music. In my opinion it's nicely done and goes well with the lyrics; I can identify with them very well since I travel a lot and I'm from a small town too :D Keep up the good work :)

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Dudes, I'm sorry. This remix just about made me vomit all over my iBook. I couldn't keep it to myself - I can't stand this remix. Technically, yeah, it's 'ok.' Is it different? Of, course. And that's good - people gotta express themselves and people need variety.

But, I'm not a hippy, I'm sorry. The acoustic guitar generally makes me want to vomit and this is no exception. Maybe I was beaten with an acoustic guitar when I was 2 or something... I dunno. Sorry.

Ooh, nice computer model name-dropping. You must be so cool, using your Mac thing. Well, I'm on a VAIO, so I M COOLER THAN U!!

Anyway. I enjoyed this. Nice guitar work from Taucer, and Dave's vocal work has certainly improved since we last heard it. Just wish it was longer!

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It was pretty good, I thought. I mean, it's not my favorite OC Remix, but not many can put words into music like that, and it was quite well done. However.. I kind of felt that the actualy melody of the original piece was slightly neglected - sometimes I had to really listen for the similar notes of the melody because some other aspects of the remix were a little over-powering. Over all, however, it was great. Keep it up.

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Sorry DjP I just can't get into your voice very well.

I like the acoustic guitar and the mellow feel, but the vocals just turn me off.

No, not the lyrics, the actual vocals. It sounds like Garrison Keillor: someone who likes to sing but can't do a very good job of it. It certainly isn't horrible, but I wouldn't want to listen to it more than once.

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It was alright.

Its uniqueness amongst other songs is what holds it together. Few people are bold enough to expose their voice on here - as if the results would inevitably be booed of the proverbial stage - and so mixes of this sort are quite rare.

Personally? I didn't much care for it... but not because it lacked qualities that I look for in a song. No, this just isn't really my kind of song. I understand what others are enjoying it, but it wasn't my cup of tea... and, as a previous poster stated, I could only really listen to it once.

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I'm glad dj pretzel was humble enough to say he's not a perfect singer, but for his attempt in a first collaboration, this is pretty good. I remember his vocal Luna mix from long ago where he did the singing there. It was much better than this song, but the actual lyrics themselves are very well written as pixietricks stated already. As for Geo's guitarwork: fantastic! Reminds me of a Fred Penner ballad from the 90s. If Dave can continue practicing to sing (he does have potential BTW don't get me wrong), I'll definately look forward to listening to his future works.

-A-Ron

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This track literally made my jaw drop. The guitar playing is just awesome and I don't care how technically "imperfect" djpretzel's voice is - the singing sounds like a perfect cross between Jim Croce and Tom Petty with some James Taylor thrown in. The source track is one of my all-time favorites and if I HAD to pick out something to complain about it would be that I have trouble picking out the original melody in the vocals. But quite honestly I don't care. :) There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this mix.

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Since several people have been asking for it, here's the acoustic part without the vocals (remastered).

For the record, though, I think it's much better with Dave's vocals.

EDIT: and yes, this is the exact same recording used in the OCR version. It is not, however, the same recording as the version that was on VGmix.

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