DarkeSword

Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Spoilers Inside!)

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4 hours ago, Modus said:

Quasi-Carbon copy. Whatever approximate language you want to use that expresses the negatives of following the original too closely.

Learn words. Say "remake."

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10 hours ago, Brandon Strader said:

Really? I understood everything about the movie. It was just boring as hell. And nowhere in the movie does it say Rey is an incest baby. 

Yes, it does, it's in the flashback. Go watch the movie again. In fact, that's why Luke left in the first place. Too much shame.

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12 hours ago, Hollow said:

The bad:  Most of my issues come from randomness and awkwardness.  Finn randomly wanted to stop being a Storm Trooper.  Why?  and why is he the only one?  If more people end up doing that, fine, but for now he's the only one we're aware of.

You're assuming the events in this movie about a person defecting from an army because he doesn't like what they're doing is somehow unique and that if this movie (a slice of the Star Wars history) doesn't show other people doing it, it must not be happening at all. Also consider it's said in the movie Finn's division is real human recruits and that most of the other Stormtroopers are clones.

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10 hours ago, DarkeSword said:

Learn words. Say "remake."

More of an homage when you think about it. Or ya know, the force is shaping the universe in mysterious ways.

 

4 hours ago, Neblix said:

Yes, it does, it's in the flashback. Go watch the movie again. In fact, that's why Luke left in the first place. Too much shame.

Wow... how high were you when you watched the movie?

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6 hours ago, Neblix said:

You're assuming the events in this movie about a person defecting from an army because he doesn't like what they're doing is somehow unique and that if this movie (a slice of the Star Wars history) doesn't show other people doing it, it must not be happening at all. Also consider it's said in the movie Finn's division is real human recruits and that most of the other Stormtroopers are clones.

Yes that's fair.  I knew he was a human; my assumption just made it feel random to me.  I guess the logical question for me is "what makes him so special?" and I hope they answer that in the sequel, or at least they show others like him in some capacity.

6 hours ago, Neblix said:

Yes, it does, it's in the flashback. Go watch the movie again. In fact, that's why Luke left in the first place. Too much shame.

1 hour ago, The Author said:

Wow... how high were you when you watched the movie?

I think Neblix is joking, no?  Is it possible to quote a response to another quote and still keep the original response quote intact?  Quotception.  TM

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2 hours ago, The Author said:

More of an homage when you think about it. Or ya know, the force is shaping the universe in mysterious ways.

Oh I know. I'm just saying that the word Modus is looking for is "remake."

Also Nabeel is joking. Brandon said in his post that Rey is possibly the daughter of "Luke and Leia." He probably meant "or."

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2 hours ago, Hollow said:

Yes that's fair.  I knew he was a human; my assumption just made it feel random to me.  I guess the logical question for me is "what makes him so special?" and I hope they answer that in the sequel, or at least they show others like him in some capacity.

I don't really think that's going to happen, nor do I think it's really all that important. I think you just have to accept his origin story was too bland for you; the movie's themes went in a very different direction and it's very heavily telegraphed that the next movie is going to focus on her relationship with Luke Skywalker.

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41 minutes ago, Neblix said:

I don't really think that's going to happen, nor do I think it's really all that important. I think you just have to accept his origin story was too bland for you; the movie's themes went in a very different direction and it's very heavily telegraphed that the next movie is going to focus on her relationship with Luke Skywalker.

They do say that it is happens, when they said he was showing no signs of rebellion prior to that, or something like that. They even had some kind of process to re-educate him.

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32 minutes ago, The Author said:

They do say that it is happens, when they said he was showing no signs of rebellion prior to that, or something like that. They even had some kind of process to re-educate him.

No, what I meant was that I don't think the movies are going to address it. I think it was purely for the purposes of establishing who he is and how/why he left the First Order, and that's really all you're going to get. I would be very surprised if they bring it up again. If they do, then I imagine Phasma would have to be a relevant part of it.

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1 hour ago, Neblix said:

I don't really think that's going to happen, nor do I think it's really all that important. I think you just have to accept his origin story was too bland for you; the movie's themes went in a very different direction and it's very heavily telegraphed that the next movie is going to focus on her relationship with Luke Skywalker.

If I have to accept that his origin story was bland for me, then that's what I'll have to do.  BUT, for now, I don't want to do that.  I just realized the parallel of Kylo Ren, being born from two 'good guys,' raised by good guys but ends up becoming bad, with Finn, who was raised, molded, conditioned by 'bad guys' but ends up becoming good.  We know more about the history of Kylo Ren but we know very little about Finn's history, other than he was first a baby and then a Storm Trooper.  It's entirely possible that they won't come back to it again, and I'm thinking too much about it, and I'll just have to accept that.  But I think it'd be interesting if his backstory has more significance.

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I think in general, people are expecting a lot more fastidious excellence from this movie than can reasonably be expected of Star Wars. Star Wars is about suspension of disbelief. It's about your imagination and "what if". It's not an exercise in creating stories that are so realistic that it's basically just real life again with some absurd details like aliens and laser guns.

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23 minutes ago, Hollow said:

we know very little about Finn's history, other than he was first a baby and then a Storm Trooper.

that's because that's all there is to it

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3 hours ago, Bleck said:

that's because that's all there is to it

And in the end, it does make for a very tragic story. The First Order uses people as weapons, and they were ready to "fix" him.

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5 hours ago, Neblix said:

It's about your imagination and "what if".

 

5 hours ago, Bleck said:

that's because that's all there is to it

Well I imagine that's not the case, and what if there is more to it?  8-)

I'm just saying I personally didn't understand that plot point, and I wish it was explained.  I don't need 3 prequels of explanation of how Finn got to become Finn but for me, I felt that it was random.  I actually would have preferred if there was no backstory at all; for example in A New Hope Han Solo is just a guy, a badass.  There's no mystery to him and I like that.  It just kind of peeved me how despite being conditioned to be a Storm Trooper, presumably his whole life, he just doesn't want to do it anymore.  That's why I feel like, maybe there's more to it than that, like he had to have had SOME sort of influence that made him want to feel that way.

I just found online that there's a book called Before the Awakening that gives some insight into the characters, including Finn, and how he had friends and showed empathy.  I just wished this was conveyed in the movie.  I guess the bloody hand on the helmet sort of did that, but that didn't occur to me while watching the movie.  I laughed because this book is for ages 8-12.  I'm just saying guys I'm an old man who reads at an elementary school level.

But like I said I want to watch it again, soon, and probably the issues I had with the film will just end up becoming absolute non-issues.

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Part of Kylo Ren's quality, I've noticed.  He spoke differently with and without his mask.  His tone was very strong, slow speaking, and commanding while with the helmet.  But once he took it off, he spoke faster as if he was a different person.  I didn't quite like it as it seemed like an oversight.  But it's likely that he was hiding behind his mask, conflicting with who he really is versus who he wants to be.  I'm not surprised if the later episodes will pull a Darth Vader where Kylo Ren will redeem himself.

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There's no mystery to him and I like that.  It just kind of peeved me how despite being conditioned to be a Storm Trooper, presumably his whole life, he just doesn't want to do it anymore.

Maybe you missed some of his dialogue. He made the decision to get out after his first battle, which was the first one shown in the movie. He saw a friend / colleague killed in front of his eyes, and was then asked to kill innocent women and children. He hadn't done any fighting at all before - he was in sanitation. So as soon as he saw all that, he wanted to leave. Sounds perfectly human and natural to me.

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Rather than piling on with the few issues I had with it, I'm just going to say that the score was AMAZINGLY refreshing, right from the very first scene.  So, so welcome after the rather boring direction a lot of modern film music has gone

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So I consider myself a Star Wars fan. Not a diehard, I'm not into the EU like... AT ALL so I went in with no knowledge of what happens after Jedi.

Enjoyable film! Gary the Stormtrooper Finn was a very welcome edition that I thought gave the films a new and really cool perspective the other films didn't show. Also, this film managed to show the overwhelming destructive power of the "first orders" ships from a first person perspective. Have we seen that before? Don't remember it from the other films. 

 

As someone who doesn't have a raging hard on for the original trilogy, I found the clear nostalgic vibe slightly distracting. Wished it wasn't just trying to pay homage throughout the entire film. There were so many references to the original trilogy that my dad said at the end "they've run out of ideas!" which is clearly missing the point but if you're making people think that, you've gone a bit too far. Also, there are complaints that Rey is a mary sue? w/e \O_O/ 

The homage stuff imo was mostly evident in the villains (lol at the palpatine knockoff - hope he's better fleshed out later) but I actually liked Kylo Ren. His character being like Darth Vader made sense in the narrative, and you could tell even before he took off his mask he wasn't like Darth Vader. The audience laughed whenever he had a tantrum attack, which is so at odds with Darth Vaders cool and unemotional persona. Its kinda like what Darth Vader was probably like immediately after Revenge of the Sith, which gave me the impression he was a young kid who was in over his head. I really liked that about him. Also, I was sat there thinking "WHY DO YOU HAVE A MASK YOU TOOL. YOU'RE NOT THE REAL DARTH VADER" which also felt intentional. Talk about being so weak you have to wear a mask to be convincing XD. He and Finn imo carried it - I Did like Rey but she was a bit of a "standard heroine" kinda like Luke is in the original films. 

As for the original trilogy characters cameos... nice to see them again. Han Solo was pretty cool. I'm looking forward to an aged Luke Skywalker next film. 

Oh and of course, the music is incredible. John Williams has a magical quality to his music that just elevates any film he helps score and he brought it once again. I hope he'll be able to do the whole trilogy.

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The references and throwbacks to the original trilogy was done to really connect the new movies to them. Notice how they never said anything about Mitoclorians or the Clone War or Naboo or anything from the prequels?

Ignore that shit, focus on the far better movies, and really emphasize how this new trilogy is not like the shit trilogy. That's the plan.

Hopefully, in the rest of the movies from now on, they tone it down. We got it, JJ. We got it. You did good on that, now just let us enjoy the new universe as it happens.

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On 12/21/2015 at 9:54 PM, Neblix said:

Why would you want a "heroic character"? Heroism is a one-dimensional concept.

I don't watch Star Wars for its nuanced observations on human nature.  This is the franchise where you can tell the difference between good space wizard knights and evil space wizard knights base on the color of their space laser sword.  When the movie I'm watching has Star Wars in the title, I want to see Heroes fighting Villains.

 

4 hours ago, WillRock said:

Also, there are complaints that Rey is a mary sue? w/e \O_O/

The complaint there is that she learned to use her powers too quickly.  Luke got some actual training from Obi-Wan, and still didn't use the Force except in a passive sense (he made a difficult torpedo shot, he didn't start flinging stuff around with his mind) for the rest of the movie -- and even then he had to be talked through it by Obi-Wan's ghost.  Rey, on the other hand, never receives any training, outright rejects the idea of learning to use the Force (as opposed to Luke who is gung-ho about it from the start), and still manages to pull off stuff like holding off Kylo's mental probe (and indeed, turns it against him) mind tricking a guard, yanking a lightsaber out of Kylo's force grip, defeating him in a lightsaber duel, etc.  Yes, there are extenuating circumstances (Kylo is wounded, he's supposedly only half-trained himself, etc) but it still comes off as the movie wanting to make sure we know how much of a super awesome badass Rey is.  I think the "mary sue" claim is a bit much, but I don't think the idea that she's more powerful with less training than anyone else in Star Wars is wrong.

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Just now, Native Jovian said:

I don't watch Star Wars for its nuanced observations on human nature.  This is the franchise where you can tell the difference between good space wizard knights and evil space wizard knights base on the color of their space laser sword.  When the movie I'm watching has Star Wars in the title, I want to see Heroes fighting Villains.

"I wanted this movie to be a lot worse than it actually was"

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