Sign in to follow this  
eternal Zero

The Golden Compass

Recommended Posts

Protest Passion of the Christ, you get ridiculed *this actually happened to my friend and others who protested outside my local theatre*.

Come on now, you gotta continue this story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fix'd.

Also: I'm getting the books lent to me via a friend today, and I'm going to endeavor to enjoy these books. However, if it really IS as anti-christian as some make it out to be, then I dunno. I'm not a big fan of getting a message slammed into my face at every page; thats just ham-fisted nonsense, y'know?

It's less anti-Christian than it is antiestablishment, the establishment in this case being 'church.' Pullman is an Atheist, yes, and the story definitely appeals to Athiests in the sense that it's about destroying the Authority (i.e. spoiler: the being that claims to be God, but isn't actually), but if you actually read the series, you'll find that it's more of a criticism of blind faith: people do horrible things in the service of the Church, using their religion as an excuse/reason, without thinking about what they're actually doing.

It's a lesson that I think a lot of people in the world today could learn from.

I'm a fairly religious person and I'd have to say while I rolled my eyes at a few of the atheist pontifications in the later books, His Dark Materials is definitely a great sci-fi/fantasy series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There shouldn't be any anti-Christian nonsense about this series, in my opinion. It's a fantasy and it so happens to be set with parallels to our life. He decided to use the church as an engine for his story like so many other people (Da Vinci Code, Narnia, Halo [yes, you heard me correctly, they have obvious references for those who pay attention]), albeit, a little openly for what the public is used to. It's just a good story, nothing more, nothing less. I do hope however, it'll be a good movie, too.

And American's don't know what the Northern Lights are?! Wtf? what do kids learn these days?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey I don't care one way or another. I wasn't planning on seeing the movie based on what I saw from the previews, and I know that the movie removed the religious aspects of the story. I'm just saying its a Catch 22 - you'll have protesters, sure, but you'll also have people who go out of their way to identify the atheist messages and worship it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's rather funny, these protest groups afraid that exposure to this movie or the books will turn their children away from faith. Is their faith so fragile a fantasy book could destroy it? It's almost like they were fanatics of another fantasy book and hated the idea of competition...

If I can sit through Narnia and enjoy it (for what it was worth), I'm sure the "other side" can enjoy The Golden Compass in the same way. It's just a fantasy adventure story. Have some fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed Aarow... I always find it odd that people need to defend their faith from ANY source, as if their faith were as easy to destroy as throwing a brick through a glass house. You'd think that they'd be more resolute in it, and thus wouldn't have to worry about it being shook by some fantasy novel. If your faith doesn't hold up to that, you don't have anything real there to begin with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^The first book isn't nearly as anti-Christian as everyone (read: all the losery protesters too busy caring about a movie to help feed homeless people etc) wants you to believe.

There's certainly a case to be made about the 2nd and 3rd books in the series though....it'll be interesting to see what they do about the movies (if they get that far). Still, the books aren't so bad as to ruin the world or anything.

well there have been some book series that have stopped after the first book because the film never caught on in the box office and from all indications, i haven't heard anything about a multi film deal like the one the narnia series made with disney.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's rather funny, these protest groups afraid that exposure to this movie or the books will turn their children away from faith. Is their faith so fragile a fantasy book could destroy it? It's almost like they were fanatics of another fantasy book and hated the idea of competition...

Especially considering as most failths run along the lines of: 'A giant invisible man in the sky did everything'...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah yes, straw men are so great, aren't they Metatron?

Anyway, I don't see any reason to protest this movie - the books themselves weren't really that anti-religious either, imo, as Darkesword pointed out (especially in his spoiler, which is quite relevant.) The movie will probably be even less so. Plus, if I recall correctly, Pullman himself doesn't have a problem with how they're treating the story. That should be the end of the discussion right there for any purists.

It's rather funny, these protest groups afraid that exposure to this movie or the books will turn their children away from faith. Is their faith so fragile a fantasy book could destroy it? It's almost like they were fanatics of another fantasy book and hated the idea of competition...

I guess you don't remember what it was like to be a kid, or don't know a lot of kids. While I don't think protesting a fantasy movie is somehow helping any cause, it's pure ignorance to think that children are not influenced incredibly easily. For the vast majority of country, any values, morals, rules, or beliefs parents try to instill in their children are very fragile. "Don't go to bed late", "don't hang out with this crowd", "don't make fun of other people", "don't drink", "don't smoke", "don't get a tattoo"... whatever it is, you could be pounding any of these messages into your child's head for years on end and a single 'cool kid' at recess plus a tiny bit of peer pressure could override all of it in an instant.

In other words, it's not "is their faith so fragile?" but rather "are their kids really that susceptible to outside influence and peer pressure?" and the answer is a resounding YES.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess you don't remember what it was like to be a kid, or don't know a lot of kids. While I don't think protesting a fantasy movie is somehow helping any cause, it's pure ignorance to think that children are not influenced incredibly easily. For the vast majority of country, any values, morals, rules, or beliefs parents try to instill in their children are very fragile. "Don't go to bed late", "don't hang out with this crowd", "don't make fun of other people", "don't drink", "don't smoke", "don't get a tattoo"... whatever it is, you could be pounding any of these messages into your child's head for years on end and a single 'cool kid' at recess plus a tiny bit of peer pressure could override all of it in an instant.

In other words, it's not "is their faith so fragile?" but rather "are their kids really that susceptible to outside influence and peer pressure?" and the answer is a resounding YES.

Absolutely true, Zircon. I knew what it was like to be a kid too, but those peer pressures and outside influences you're talking about were just that: pressures and influences. None of them shook my faith in anything, and I ended up making my own decisions.

I would say its incorrect to think that children somehow will automatically choose the wrong path simply because the wrong path exists. They can make good choices and bad, just like anyone else, and eventually the hope is that they'll grow up into a complete decision making machine (e.g. human being). I don't think we need to spend too much time worrying about the outside influences on our children, as long as you have faith in their ability to make decisions. In my opinion, it's much better to try to tell parents that their kids need to be taught how to make correct decisions, rather than to fight the fantasy novels. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There shouldn't be any anti-Christian nonsense about this series, in my opinion. It's a fantasy and it so happens to be set with parallels to our life. He decided to use the church as an engine for his story like so many other people (Da Vinci Code, Narnia, Halo [yes, you heard me correctly, they have obvious references for those who pay attention]), albeit, a little openly for what the public is used to. It's just a good story, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not so sure that this is entirely true. I was reading a Washington post article, and Pullman said the following:

"I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief. Mr. [C.S.] Lewis would think I was doing the Devil's work."

I'm still trying to figure out where I stand on this whole foo-fah of a controversy, but I think that a lot of people have gone way past extreme.

For example:

Philip Pullman....is a complete idiot and obviously does not know JESUS CHRIST. He is just another moron from hollywood allowing the devil to use him in making a horrible, tasteless movie to entice children and parents to see this ungodly movie. ALL parents, children, teens, and adults should stay awy from this movie and the theatre and people need to call into every theatere around the country and boycott this disgrace. Philip Pullman and Nicole Kidman will be accounted for their involvement in this movie and will stand before the judement of GOD one day. I pray the Lord puts a stop to this and those involved in this movie. People we need to stand together and stand up for JESUS CHRIST and lets minister to the lost and those needing a walk with Jesus especial;ly Philip Pullman and Nicole Kidman and all the producers and directors of trashy ungodly movies that are taking the innocense of our children and the morals and family values away from our families, scools, and society....People and christians lets RISE UP and STAND UP for JESUS CHRIST!!!!!

While I disagree with some of Pullman's motives, I am against boycotting the film. The lady who said the text above is taking it way too far.

I can see how the main message of these books could just be to not follow religion blindly, but why then would the author be trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wintermute, absolutely, and I was not really one to fall victim to peer pressure either. I was merely generalizing. The stereotype of 'rebellious teenager' does not exist for nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what bothers me is that there have been countless secular films and few of them have stirred this much shit in "protest." sometimes, people crave controversy and i think this might be simply an example of that... perhaps even fueled by the success of the big screen adaptations of narnia... but whatever the reason, i'm curious why it is suddenly such a big deal

the children? are you serious? are christian zealots really playing the children card?? suddenly we have to boycott a film because of the influence it might have on children? what is truly worse... instead of being brainwashed with an indirect, fantasy kid's movie implying that there is no invisible dude in the sky, is the exposure to the constant barrage of worldly bullshit that is forcefed our children throughout pop culture

i'll admit that i haven't read the books yet (or have and just can't remember them) so i can't claim to know how extensive pullman's criticism of creationism is but i know that there wasn't nearly as big an outrcy over star wars or any other film that is based on life outside of earth... a direct contradiction to the big guy in the sky and his design. i don't remember because i was very young but did they line up with torches and pitchforks outside of theatres when ET came out? and even if they did, isn't that a bit ridiculous?

the children, they say. the poor children who will walk away, scratching their heads, collectively questioning god after watching a couple of giant polar bears tear each other apart.

right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
but whatever the reason, i'm curious why it is suddenly such a big deal

A lot of it is Pullman's own controversial comments too. While there have been anti-religious movies that didn't get the same level of protest, Pullman has said his books are about "killing God". As Darkesword pointed out, the books themselves don't even read as that anti-Christian but with Pullman so proud of his atheism and delivering lines like that it's not a huge surprise that it's generated this much controversy. I actually really dislike how he comes off in some of his interviews.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wintermute, absolutely, and I was not really one to fall victim to peer pressure either. I was merely generalizing. The stereotype of 'rebellious teenager' does not exist for nothing.

True that. *high five*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well been about almost 3 years since I read the book. But it was a good book. I have seen the movie already (Thanks to school going to a screening). I don't drop any spoilers :P. But how the movie was done was very interesting. It wasn't how I imagined how the movie would be and that it would be more...I don't know but hey still check out the movie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'll admit that i haven't read the books yet (or have and just can't remember them) so i can't claim to know how extensive pullman's criticism of creationism is but i know that there wasn't nearly as big an outrcy over star wars or any other film that is based on life outside of earth... a direct contradiction to the big guy in the sky and his design. i don't remember because i was very young but did they line up with torches and pitchforks outside of theatres when ET came out? and even if they did, isn't that a bit ridiculous?

Sorry, this is slightly off the main topic, but in John chapter 10 verse 16 it says, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold. . ." This could imply beings elsewhere, and I'm not talking about little green men or the like.

Besides that, Zyko, where does it say that life outside of Earth contradicts God?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry, this is slightly off the main topic, but in John chapter 10 verse 16 it says, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold. . ." This could imply beings elsewhere, and I'm not talking about little green men or the like.

Besides that, Zyko, where does it say that life outside of Earth contradicts God?

most creationist thought goes against the idea of life outside of earth as the implication that the exact same set of circumstances (size of planet, distance from star, etc) could yield another earth with similar life forms to humans. this would go against God's design... that man was created in his image and that man is unique and supreme. it contradicts the premise of Man.

you're right, i'm not talking about little green martians from mars, either - not disagreeing with you really but i've always interpreted that verse as stating that there were other beings in this world that are not in the physical realm... rather than humanoid aliens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A lot of it is Pullman's own controversial comments too. While there have been anti-religious movies that didn't get the same level of protest, Pullman has said his books are about "killing God". As Darkesword pointed out, the books themselves don't even read as that anti-Christian but with Pullman so proud of his atheism and delivering lines like that it's not a huge surprise that it's generated this much controversy. I actually really dislike how he comes off in some of his interviews.

you're right, he's a dick

i don't care so much if the book or the associated movie has anti-christianity lines in it... christians should grow slightly tougher skin as jews and muslims have tough-to-swallow movies made about them all the time... i am just appalled that he would be so bold as to have such a ridiculously incindiary attitude towards it.

what, is he picking a fight? it isn't even a fight worth taking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, admittedly Christian movies made to convert kids = good

and admittedly atheist movies made to denounce blind faith = bad?

See what's wrong here? The people who protest the movie are exactly what he's trying to denounce: People who blindly follow a religion and never try to show judgment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course people (eg. parents) will support any media that adhere to their views, and oppose ones that don't. How is this wrong at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course people (eg. parents) will support any media that adhere to their views, and oppose ones that don't. How is this wrong at all?

Because being blind is never a good thing. In this case, it's ridiculous simply because they behave exactly in the way the movie tries to prevent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Little bit of a confession here, when I saw the media blitzkrig for the movie, I had no idea it was the adapation of "The northen lights".

And from what I'm reading, this is basicly Xenogears times JoJo's Bizzare Adventure minus epic manly punching minus mechs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this