What computer/Com-type to buy for remixing purpose

[kongsmoelf]

'ello!

So I was wondering. What's the better remix computer? A stationary one or a laptop? Ofc. it depends on the specs from each of the computers, but just wanted to hear some opinions - Is a Mac a good choice fx.?

-Thanks

[Vurez]

Well, a desktop is always going to be faster than a laptop of similar specs. Also you'll be able to buy a great destop machine at the same price of a decent laptop. So, unless you're planning on doing a lot of your music while traveling/on-the-road, then I'd recommend a desktop machine.

[tgfoo]

I agree with what's above. Unless you need the portability or really want it, you'll get a much better bang for you buck with a desktop system.

As for Mac or PC/which software to run, that's all a matter of preference. In the end they'll all do the same things (maybe is slightly different ways) and they'll all eventually get you the same results.

[Yoozer]

So I was wondering. What's the better remix computer? A stationary one or a laptop?
I think you mean desktop.

If you don't have to use it to perform live, go the desktop route.

Is a Mac a good choice fx.?
It's worthless...

...if what you're using now doesn't have OS X versions.

Using FL Studio? No Mac. Using several of the free synth plugins made with SynthEdit? No Mac. Pick what runs on the platform or be prepared to not only switch operating systems but the rest of it, too, and expect to be 3-4 months out of the running while you're un-learning and re-learning things.

[Zephyr]

However if you must have Mac I hear Logic is actually quite good (it's made specifically for macs by apple)

[Tuned Logic]

I used to run FL Studio on a PC, and I like Logic a lot better; even Garageband is a great starting point. But like others have said, it is all a matter of preference.

[analoq]

Consider:
- Macs hold value longer than PCs.
- Laptops hold value longer than Desktops.

When it comes time to upgrade in a couple years you'll be able to sell your older MacBook for a decent amount, but your desktop PC will be a disposable item.

My point is don't go the PC or desktop route to save money; you won't in the long run.

[OverCoat]

However, the plus with desktops is that you can swap out old parts for better ones if you feel like it, or carry over old stuff that worked well to a new tower/mobo [for most things anyway], instead of buying a whole new unit.

Here's some numbers: I bought this 3.2 GHz P4 back in 2004 for ~$1200 and have beefed it up considerably since then [maybe adding another $300-350 to the price], and I suspect this configuration could last me another year or two. I would like to upgrade to quad core for haxx but I don't really feel pressed to at the moment.

[analoq]

You can upgrade the basics in any laptop.. RAM / harddrive.

The OP's question was general, so I gave a general opinion. If the OP already knew how to build PCs I doubt he'd have made this thread.

However I don't think building PCs yourself is worth it either --and I've put together everything from 486s onward. These days I just want to get work done and not having to mess with the internal hardware is worth the short-term premium.

cheers.

[big giant circles]

I'm not a huge fan of Mac personally, but seeing as I own an Intel iMac, I do at least have the ability to switch platforms painlessly, especially with an external HD.

Logic im my PERSONAL opinion, while not a bad program, is highly overrated. Same with Garageband. I use FL studio, because I'm a piano-roll composer 90% of the time, and so far, every other DAW I've tried from Sonar to Acid to Live to Logic just does not compare on that primary front.

[audio fidelity]

hey gotta step in for logic here bgc

while the piano roll doesn't have all the functionality as FL does

you do get a hyper editor that allows almost the same step based functionality. It's not as intuitive and has to be programmed but still

anyways notation is something that has always steered me toward logic - and while it is nothing to print scores off of for orchestras, it is very nice to look at notes instead of piano roll stuff for me at least.

and in terms of recording, the ability to record comps (multi-takes that I can splice together) has been essential in my work flow.

but if i wasn't doing recording or anything with notation i would think FL is great choice - both give you a great set of sounds to start with and have a fair amount of plugins that cover all the processing you'd want.

[analoq]

the piano roll doesn't have all the functionality as FL does

it doesn't? We had a discussion about this a while back. You can configure Logic's piano roll to behave almost identically to FL's (if you like that sort of thing...). The negligible differences being, well, negligible. Definitely not a deal-breaker for the OP considering how general his questions are.

[audio fidelity]

fl has things like arpeggiators and chord builders built right in the piano roll - and other features too...i'm pretty sure - i haven't been in it in awhile

[big giant circles]

i don't think i said logic was a BAD program, but rather that it's overrated. there's quirks with FL too, not trying to make it a "which is better?" discussion :P

in the end, as in all things, to each their own. :nicework:

[Vivi22]

Consider:
- Macs hold value longer than PCs.
- Laptops hold value longer than Desktops.

When it comes time to upgrade in a couple years you'll be able to sell your older MacBook for a decent amount, but your desktop PC will be a disposable item.

My point is don't go the PC or desktop route to save money; you won't in the long run.

Considering you can build or even buy a reasonably good desktop for half the cost of a macbook (assuming you don't need a monitor, and even then, just add an extra $100-150), I don't think this point makes as much of a difference as you think it does.

[analoq]

Considering you can build or even buy a reasonably good desktop for half the cost of a macbook (assuming you don't need a monitor, and even then, just add an extra $100-150), I don't think this point makes as much of a difference as you think it does.

Yes it does. And I know from experience.

I've tried to sell old desktop PCs I've built -- it's difficult. I usually end up giving them away or they sit in my closet for a few years before I throw them out. Maybe that sounds familiar? Now, old mac laptops... as long as they aren't broken or too old can go for half what I paid for them.

So even if I spent half as much on a desktop PC, I still end up with the same amount of cash in my pocket in the long run. And I get to have a nicer computer, imo.

[audio fidelity]

well strictly talking about audio - desktops really have gotten to a point where you don't have to worry about the same things audio guys did years back. A good system today will last you a pretty long time - until you update to windows 7 (heh)

laptops are almost there

but i'm just trying to make the point that upgrading you pc isn't going to be as big of a deal in the future as it has been in the past - but if your a top of the line gamer...you can throw that idea out the window.

[OverCoat]

lol cue mac vs pc debate

in before ubuntu studio

[Vivi22]

Yes it does. And I know from experience.

I've tried to sell old desktop PCs I've built -- it's difficult. I usually end up giving them away or they sit in my closet for a few years before I throw them out. Maybe that sounds familiar? Now, old mac laptops... as long as they aren't broken or too old can go for half what I paid for them.

So even if I spent half as much on a desktop PC, I still end up with the same amount of cash in my pocket in the long run. And I get to have a nicer computer, imo.

In the midst of trying to argue against my point, you actually end up agreeing with me (sort of)?

He has a choice, he can spend $600 now and have a hard time selling his desktop in 4 or 5 years (although he could always do something like donate it to a program that gives refurbished computers to people who could really use them), or he can spend $1,200 now and only get half that back, at best, in 4 or 5 years. I'm not going to get into a lesson on the time value of money here, but he's better off with the $600 now. Particularly if there are any other things like a midi controller, audio interface, or software programs he wants to buy, if not for the fact that $600 in 4 years is worth less than $600 now.

And on the laptop side of things, unless you need the portability, I wouldn't bother. There are a lot of models out there that work well for making music, but there are some (and this isn't limited to one manufacturer as far as I know; it depends on what model you get) that just aren't suitable for the job at all. It's a gamble, so if you do go the laptop route, either go with a macbook or do research and find out what laptop models are working for people and what ones aren't.

[analoq]

Sorry to get your hopes up, I was not agreeing with you. The last line in my post was ambiguous, my apologies.

I'm not going to get into a lesson on the time value of money here, but he's better off with the $600 now
All things being equal, I would agree with you. But the choices are not equal. So whether he'd be better off is not a call you can make.

I don't want to get into a superfluous discussion about inflation in this thread, so I'll just give that to you: fair point but weak argument.

[po!]

i'm not gonna argue prices or Logic vs. FL. but i think one thing is pretty certain... and that's a desktop is more flexible and is generally faster and more powerful. so unless you neeeed portability, there really isn't much reason to go with a laptop

[big giant circles]

FL's chili pepper pwns Apple's apple. lawl. :<

http://www.livemiles.com/images/fl_studio_wallpaper_preview.png

http://www.recycleit.net.au/files/apple-logo-dec07.jpg

this is not a serious post

[Vivi22]

Sorry to get your hopes up, I was not agreeing with you. The last line in my post was ambiguous, my apologies.


All things being equal, I would agree with you. But the choices are not equal. So whether he'd be better off is not a call you can make.

I don't want to get into a superfluous discussion about inflation in this thread, so I'll just give that to you: fair point but weak argument.

I'm not trying to say he should go with a PC desktop over a Mac. That's a choice he'd have to make on his own based on the available software, his preference for an OS, and whatever else he wants to do with the computer. In fact, if you noticed, I outright said that if they wanted a laptop, a Macbook would be one of the best choices despite the price differential. My only problem was your pretty weak argument that he won't save money in the long run going with a PC desktop. If anything, based on the sole fact that he could use the savings to buy other gear to go with the PC, I find your argument doesn't hold any water.

A Mac is going to be more expensive than a comparable or better spec desktop PC used for music. Period. The only way that extra expense makes sense is if he really wants to go with a Mac for what a Mac offers.

[analoq]

If anything, based on the sole fact that he could use the savings to buy other gear to go with the PC, I find your argument doesn't hold any water.

That's a fine point to make, but you're making a logical misstep in thinking it is a refutation of my argument. In fact your fallacy is so common there's a name for it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi).

The OP only asked about computers, so I only made claims about that. Buying a cheap PC to have money in the short-term for other equipment is a defensible argument, but it does not address my claims regarding what sorts of computers maintain their value and such -- which I why I felt no need to respond the first time you brought it up. (Yes, I do actually read your posts before responding to them, so please stop repeating yourself...)

cheers.

[big giant circles]

Yeah, well, you've yet to reply to my argument about a pepper kicking a fruit's ass.

Don't you dare accuse me of illogical conclusions, I've done my research, beeyatch!



































But seriously though, I'm a PC guy, but analoq is definitely right that Macs hold their value much longer than PCs. And honestly, the debate is almost like arguing which shape is better, a circle or a square. :P

and btw, a triangle is the best shape

[GarretGraves]

if you're recording audio, PCs arent a bad deal. Adobe Audition can get you by a great deal combined with FL. I've recorded buttloads of demos and, after several years of learning how to play, theory, etc., I managed to pull out some decent quality demos. Mind you it won't always sound pro. IF you want the tech needed for that sort of thing, prepare to pay through the nose.

For laptops: whatever laptop you get. DO NOT GET A THINK PAD! I repeat. DO NOT GET A THINK PAD! Horrible laptop.

For Apple, I love using Logic in sound design class. And it's good for audio and midi. and i didnt know you can make it so the piano roll is similar to FL. That makes me want an iMac even more. Oh and for those who think Logic is overrated? Logic 8 has a killer library of sounds. even the lighter versions of Logic has hella stuff to play with. It's too bad I dont own it. I'd never leave the house.

[tgfoo]

and btw, a triangle is the best shape

No, a rhombus is clearly superior to a triangle... :-P

[Dhsu]

FL's chili pepper pwns Apple's apple. lawl. :<
this is not a serious post
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6411/macostanjh6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
VS
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3779/flchanminithumbpa7.png (http://imageshack.us)

ROUND 1

FIGHT!!!

[analoq]

Even now, a decade later, this (http://www.toyboxarts.com/gallery/numbers/pages/tb20e.html) is still one of the most revolting things I've ever seen.

Fat Man and Little Boy just wasn't enough...

[OverCoat]

by extension, those imacs were pretty damn ugly (http://www.governmentauctions.org/uploaded_images/imacs-700084.jpg)

the horror... the rainbow coloured horror...

[GarretGraves]

thats hot....and yet not.....

[Red9]

so what would be a good desktop pc setup, specs wise? i'm in the market for a new piece

[Yoozer]

so what would be a good desktop pc setup, specs wise? i'm in the market for a new piece

The question is meaningless without a specified amount of money. As a number, not "cheap" or "well, not too expensive".

See also http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200809.ars to get an idea. Be cheap on the graphics card (dual monitor is the only thing you have to do) and invest what you save in a quiet case and better specs.

[GarretGraves]

what use would a dual monitor have for mixing exactly?

[big giant circles]

just gives you more real estate, which is helpful for managing your timeline, plugins, mixer, etc simultaneously without having to switch screens constantly or rearrange things.

[OverCoat]

I meant to use my second monitor for VSTi windows, but I use it for IRC instead

oh woe is me, I will never finish anything ever again

I wouldn't recommend dual monitors depending on how bad your A.D.D. is

[Red9]

i'm in the market with a good solid 2k for a machine and 500 for some startup software

[Yoozer]

To find out which sequencer software, first start downloading demos of everything you can get your hands on.

Plonking down cash on Cubase Studio 4 is useless if the program doesn't match your workflow.

Also, I'd argue that $2K may even be too much; what you spend extra will be gone up in smoke next year. Also, you might want to wait until the Core i7's gone more mainstream.

[big giant circles]

I meant to use my second monitor for VSTi windows, but I use it for IRC instead

hahahahahahahahaha!!! :nicework:

[zircon]

To find out which sequencer software, first start downloading demos of everything you can get your hands on.

Plonking down cash on Cubase Studio 4 is useless if the program doesn't match your workflow.

Also, I'd argue that $2K may even be too much; what you spend extra will be gone up in smoke next year. Also, you might want to wait until the Core i7's gone more mainstream.

Seconded... $2000 is more than you need for a killer music box. I would wait for i7 prices to come down too, then invest in a model that's towards the top of the line, eg. in the $300-350 range. Solid state drives may be cheaper as well.

[Yoozer]

hahahahahahahahaha!!! :nicework:

3 monitors. That'll be the solution!

[audio fidelity]

so what would be a good desktop pc setup, specs wise? i'm in the market for a new piece

just thought i would chime in

i think this is a very important question Red9 asked - in terms of, what are the ideal specs to get a computer at to start recording. i have only dealt with macs so i can't really offer much advice. But as long as you have a decent chip (2.4 and up), enough ram (2 gigs is minimum), and a decent interface (really should be firewire), i think your off to a good start.

and as for waiting - sure prices will go down (they will always go down!) i waited 6-8 months for my mac - and waiting sucks. i would just go out and get a system and enjoy it.

[OverCoat]

lol firewire

more like pci :3

anyway in my experience there's usually a gigantic price difference between the super ultimate best thing and then the 2nd best thing, and I usually go for that.

[audio fidelity]

pci, which is better, keeps getting updated - atleast with firewire there are options

and i totally agree with overcoat - being on the cutting edge first costs a lot of extra money and lot of extra time when the people who made it are still working out the kinks

[Red9]

well it's not to say that I want to spend 2k on a machine, it's more of thats my limit on the system itself(monitors, periphirals, speakers). also is the i7 920 processor too much for this type of software or would it be better if i did get that?

[zircon]

You can never have too much processor for music making applications. However, as long as you get a minimum of a 2.4ghz Core 2 Duo you will be fine, generally speaking.

[Red9]

well i picked up for $100 a laptop. centrino 2ghz (800mhz bus), 1gb ram. should i be good for a while? (i have fruity loops 8 right now)

[audio fidelity]

up the ram! - it'll be worth it

and where did you get that deal on a $100 laptop?

[GarretGraves]

ppl still use IRC? I havnt used that in at least a couple years

[Red9]

My buddy's mom bought it new, didn't like the 8.9 inch screen after a while, sold it to me and bought a desktop.

[GarretGraves]

You can never have too much processor for music making applications. However, as long as you get a minimum of a 2.4ghz Core 2 Duo you will be fine, generally speaking.

that makes me feel better. :D i only recently been buying gear, starting with the Line6 Gearbox. (I love this damn thing!) As for specs, I'm getting by pretty well with 1.8ghz Core 2 duo 6300 with 2 gigs of ram. Everything runs smooth between FL and Audition. My only complaint is getting my tracks loud enough. I can get them pretty loud, but it comes close to the "Death Magnetic" effect. High compression almost to the point of clipping. I'm not sure if the processor has anything to do with that sort of thing, does it? I also have a 5.1 sound system by Logitech that I got for around $150 US. My Audigy 2 may really be the issue though. I could use a second opinion on that.

PS. I just want to go on record that I think Death Magnetic is Metallica's best album since the Black Album. Just want to make that clear. :D

[OverCoat]

Volume has no effect on CPU effectiveness

Also: High compression almost to the point of clipping, when has that ever been a good thing?

Whatever happened to dynamics?

[GarretGraves]

haha i never said it was a good thing. :)

And dynamics? what do you mean by whatever happened to dynamics? you hear dynamics everyday! lol

[Red9]

i've been listening for the whole damn day since you posted and I ain't heard shit!

lol

[GarretGraves]

well if you go outside and step away from your Barbie NES game remix you might hear some!

[Red9]

....so....i like that remix...