timaeus222   Members

Yeah, and that's what I was confused about, and that's what other people could be confused about too. Expression isn't just the expressiveness of an instrument combination to sound like they're "alive", but that's certainly one definition of it, and that's why I was interpreting it partially in that way, and partially in the "development" way. Maybe it's just because I think of structure in terms of perceived energy (chorus, breakdown section, buildup, intro, outtro, etc.) rather than how rhythms, mood, and tempo are ways to determine movements. But anyways, [/offtopic]

Maybe a better way to name this thread would be "Most expressive VGM that you have heard before". The extent to which you see expression is just different from how I see it. What you call expressive I might call very expressive, or I might call it just "well-written" (as a "compromised way" of conceding to your point of view). I could be more touched by certain harmonies than you might be, and you could be more touched by certain structural developments than I might be, for example. That aside, expression in general can be vague. If you've ever used MIDI CC before (and *you* have), you'd know that expression can be stuff like vibrato, tremolo, portamento, etc., but in this case it's defined more like the word development or the word progression are defined. What *you're* saying is to look at the arrangement in terms of the development, rise, and fall of the notes and their organization, without focusing so much on the textures, layers, and tonal character or articulations of the instruments. I certainly agree with your view, but I'm just not sure you'd believe me when I say I get that you meant that. (btw, I did read that post you made earlier about "form and progression", which I also agreed with.)

Something like Pentatonix represents that fairly well. And btw, even if a piece is not long (like I mentioned earlier), it can still have substantial development, which is similar to what you were saying about "form and progression"; just has to happen faster to match up with the longer, more developed pieces out there. I'm not actually looking at layers *only*, but what I'm definitely aiming to say is that the layers contribute to the expressiveness. i.e. A distant flute arpeggio does wonders to textures, and little harp flourishes add a fresh sparkle to the overall atmosphere.

I wasn't actually depending on an opinionated way of listening to it as I wrote that. Maybe certain modulations resonate better with me than with others, but nevertheless, they are there. For example, Sticky Sewers has some diverse time signatures and Use Those Jetpacks has that descending part that becomes a key modulation (0:40), as well as some depth to its layers. Fusion Master as well; see the E. Piano. =P Also, the pieces I pointed out were the ones that I thought were fitting the topic description IMO. They had distinct, memorable melodies, and despite being the kind of music that loops, sounded just as layered and detailed as "normal, non-VGM" music.

Personally I cut more than I boost when I mix when I can (here's where really good samples out-of-the-box comes in, if you're using a lot of samples), and I usually only do any sort of EQ at all where I can hear an actual change for the better. Occasionally I boost for strength, but mainly little peaking boosts at specific frequencies to bring something up in the mix. I would check on other audio systems if possible. Checking on ones with differences in bass and differences in treble allow you to balance the frequencies between the better and the worse-case systems. I actually have one pair of headphones with okay bass, nice treble, great resonance detection, and more reverb than the average pair, while my main has great bass, great treble, good resonance detection, and minimal reverb. But yeah, if you "don't trust" your headphones enough to do major cuts or boosts, look for ones with flatter frequency responses (try http://headphone.com/). It's fine to not EQ as much of what you aren't confident in listening for, but if you feel like you need to, go ahead, and then try asking someone you strongly believe knows what he/she's doing and getting feedback.

Yeah, and isn't that what I posted? Despite the brevity, PF2D displays a tremendous amount of development and harmonic modulations in such a short time, and Fittest has quite a bit of complex harmonies, dynamics, and flow to its arrangements.

My main crit with this is that the strings sound detached in a context where they should be more connected. Try overlapping the sequenced notes and having them start before the beat, and automating volume swells (think of a conductor). The notes are great, it's just the way they're played that sounds awkward. Try listening to this, especially @ 2:24 and 2:45.

I'm about to do it again. http://zirconstudios.bandcamp.com/album/pf2d-original-soundtrack This was done in 2011 but released in 2014. Almost all orchestral. Most expressive tracks IMO are Sticky Sewers, Use Those Jetpacks, and Airborne Action (which for some reason isn't released???). (btw, the Bandcamp play volume seems quieter than the actual download volume)

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Anything from Fittest (besides the Startup and Menu themes). Each of those pieces could easily stand alone as something you could put in a playlist and enjoy, especially Photosynthesis, Fusion Master, and Morsecode.

Pretty cool transformation of the source. I would've liked the mixing to be a bit more in-your-face, as it felt a bit weak in comparison to some of the stuff I heard from ISW Juggernaut demos, but otherwise this is quite enjoyable.

Damn, the writing in this is actually really awesome! Chords are tight, fills are nuanced. The bass even sounds supah, despite its tone being noticeably fake.

makes anyone happy unless you're this robot thing that does things

Well, I dunno about resources, but I've known examples I loved when thinking about drum writing. http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01849 - Jazz Fusion http://zirconstudios.bandcamp.com/track/system - Eclectic rhythms http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02767 - Unique rhythm that makes an otherwise plodding groove lock you in. Plus, dat drum solo. http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02703 - slow drums in unusual context

The bass is quite loud, just FYI. As a result you also have the kick drum too loud, most clear at 1:37.

Damn, those quarter tone tunings are freaky, but NOT flat or badly dissonant. They work so well! Quirky but definitely one for the record books---first remix passed with quarter tone tunings? I also love that odd little zourna sound.

Man, there's a lot of sub bass in these. Cowboy Bebop also has a rather old piano sample. You could mix more quietly on these. Both remixes have overcompression from the drums, and the Space Dandy remix is muddy from the reverb in the E. Piano. Otherwise these sound alright for what you're doing.

I forgot I had that. Thanks for reminding me.

With FL Studio, you can do Shift+Down on the D-pad three times, alternatively.

I agree with OA. This sounds like 80's action music. Noticeably mechanical sequencing in the piano and flute, but otherwise pretty solid for 2000.

Well, the guitar sounds narrow, for one. The drums actually sound pretty good, but would sound better if the guitar was wider. If you double-track the guitar, it should clear up room for the kick and snare.

Hehe, save me some Vectorman, dude; it's gonna drop hard for the BadAss Vol. 3 album!

Heads-up, I'ma vote soon. Pokey the Choker - Takes a little long to get going, but once some dynamics changed up at 0:54, there were some more microchanges going on that helped to lessen the repetition. To me, 2:03 sounded drastically different than what came previously, so perhaps something to connect the sections by the bass frequencies would have helped. Overall the production is great, no substantial issues there. I guess I would have liked the snare/clap layer to be a tad louder, but other than that, it sounds quite good. Arrangement seems to have a rather "standard" structure to me, which is fine, and differences between breakdown sections helped to give a sense of progression. Use of sources sounded like one piece to me. Mother of Sinistrals - Piano sample (somewhat lofi) could have been humanized more by putting a longer decay on the reverb. 0:32 harmonies seemed dissonant in a weird way. The parallel intervals there could have been just straightforward harmonies rather than consistently-sized intervals, and it would sound less awkward. 0:52 fade-in of the 8-bit synth sounded jarring to me. Actually, I guess the intro and outtro didn't seem to fit the otherwise chiptune arrangement. Somehow the acoustic drums are buried (even though these specific chiptune tones have thin frequency distributions). Maybe the tempo didn't help too much, as for me it made this sound more repetitive than it could have been. The arrangement has some neat ideas here and there, but at the same time, textures sounded sparse (for me it was not because you were using chiptunes). The sax at 3:11 didn't fit IMO, and needed humanization through more dynamic velocities and automated swells; it also sounded too loud. There was good development throughout; maybe it took rather long to get through these developments, but the concept made sense, and there wasn't too much copy+paste IMO. My main concern with this was how concise it could have been in articulating the ideas within it. A Demon's Executor - So let's get this out of the way: the orchestra is quite mechanical. However, it isn't that bad. In this electronic-orchestral hybrid, it's a little more OK to have it mechanical. I would have liked it to begin without "just starting", so an intro would have helped. Maybe you did mean the first section to be an intro, but the thickness of the textures reminded me more of a "main" section. Things could have changed up earlier than a minute in, even microchanges. Overall it sounded like a lotta copy+paste going on to me, and things got too muddy past 1:15. Gratuitous Sax and Violins - Sounds cohesive. Sounds like the sax was humanized fairly well, but mixed a little to the back. Strings had a few missteps in the sequencing here and there, but not necessarily obvious ones. Bass instrument is a tad loud. Drums sound very slightly overcompressed, maybe from a hard knee limiter (btw, the peak volume is about -1.5 dB). Good source meshing. Earth's Sacrifice - The string instrument on the right (cello?) seemed a little dry, but humanized fairly well at times. The harp could have had some automation to do "swells" to the volume for humanization. The overall groove felt pretty constant for quite a while. 4:28 had some stuff fading in that was a totally different key. o.o; Good mood throughout and it sounded like one piece to me.