jnWake   Judges ⚖️

Inspired by the old playlisting site, I dove into Invision's database tool and built out a fun new feature I like to call 8Tracks! Create a playlist of exactly 8 OC ReMixes by entering their OCR IDs (e.g. OCR01235) in the form and generate a player that you can listen to and share.
We've put together a couple of 8Tracks already, which you can find at the 8Tracks Index, but feel free to make your own! The link is also available at the top of the forum page in the main navigation next  to ReMix Submissions.
To premptively answer a few questions:
Why can't I do more than 8?
The forum software I'm using to build out these kinds of features is very limited, so I need to lean into these types of restrictions to make them work. Wouldn't it be easier to have an "Add to playlist" button on the actual ReMix pages?
The main site and the forums are actually far more separated than it seems. It's almost impossible to develop user-specific features for the non-forum part of the site. Is this the playlist function you've been talking about for a long time?
No. Eventually I want to build a proper, robust playlist function that hooks into the remix database and also ties to user accounts with no restrictions on playlist length; that will come as part of the full site rewrite that will happen eventually. However, building this feature (especially the JS stuff and how it interacts with the YouTube player API) has taught me a lot and I'll be able to apply these lessons to the eventual rewrite. Anyway, I hope you guys enjoy. Looking forward to queueing up some 8Tracks from you. :)
-- DarkeSword

Original is indeed a very chill piece!
Your take begins with a piano/pad combo doing the main chord progression at a faster pace. I enjoy the sound of this combo. At 0:14 the main flute melody is played on a synth, I think adapting the track to a faster pace sounds great so far... However, we eventually reach 0:27 and all balance is lost. A drumkit enters at an insanely loud volume and completely drowns everything else, with the LUFS reaching -5 (which is extremely loud), and there's even clipping on my DAW. Even the waveform looks kinda silly here:

As far as I can tell, the background keeps the same parts from the intro here. There's a breakdown around 0:52 with a fairly intense snare for some reason, then a build-up and more loud drums at 1:08. I dig the rhytm idea here. There's been a recurrent synth arpeggio on this percussion sections that sounds off-tune/off-key, unsure since it's hard to hear. 1:33 has a similar break to 0:52 and at 1:43 the main melody returns and then the drums return at 1:57. We then repeat the break and build-up of 0:52 but there's a fake-out and at 2:41 we get the percussion "pay-off" again. As before, the overwhelming volume doesn't make it that enjoyable... At 3:07 the track ends abruptly, with even the tail of the sounds cutting off abruptly.
In terms of arrangement this is fairly basic, I really like the idea of speeding up the original but you kinda exhaust all your tricks in the first 25 seconds. There's definitely space for chord progression variations or incorporating more of the source's melodies. I like the idea behind some of the percussion breakdowns as well, but I don't think they're enough to sell the arrangement alone.
Production is, however, the main issue here. The track is extremely unbalanced, with the percussion being so loud that it makes the track very hard to listen to, even clipping at some points. It's hard to critique the mix behind this unbalanced approach but I'd take a look at the higher frequencies since the mix sounds shrill (but this may simply be a consequence of the loudness).
Overall, while I think there are good ideas behind this, the production is not enough for this to pass. First, look at balancing the percussion with the rest of the track. Second, check if there are ways to make the arrangement more interesting as right now it's way too simple.
NO

You surely picked a challenging source with that Ninja Gaiden theme… After listening to the other 2 sources I have honestly no idea what to expect from this!
K, so we begin with the arpeggio from the Ghost Castle source, I like the patches used here. There’s a brief tease of Ghost Castle melody before some percussion elements enter… Here things get tricky since you shifted the arpeggio somewhat unexpectedly to 7/8 (or /4? Whatever). Soon after, the melody from the other Knight ‘n’ Grail joins and I’m surprised that it actually fits well! A similar vibe continues until 1:16 where we finally get a clear presence of the Ninja Gaiden track. The mix gets a little busy here, I assume because of reverb or similar effects. I like that you somehow kept the Ghost Castle arpeggio as background despite the change in chords. Focus returns to Ghost Castle around the 2 minute mark until there’s silence and a neat transition at 2:40, which continues the Ghost Castle melody actually. I wish the bass was louder on this entire section, it feels very subdued in general. Eventually, the title melody returns and eventually the song ends. I feel the ending is a bit anticlimactic, after 4 minutes I was hoping for something more interesting but it kinda just stopped.
On the arrangement side this is pretty cool, you do a great job mixing the sources, especially the 2 from Knight ‘n’ Grail. Ninja Gaiden is much less present but I’m not really surprised since that source is extremely odd. I also like that you changed the time signature for your own personal touch, something like that quickly makes the cover “your own take”. Structure of the arrangement also flows well, slowly adding more regular percussive elements and using recurring themes in a smart way.
On the production side I think you nail it for the most part, although there's still some issues. I generally enjoy the sound choices in here and there’s clearly a lot of care put into how the soundscape evolves. The moody percussion in the first minute is neat although arguably a little loud. As something to look for in next mixes I think the reverb/delay (whatever you used for ambience) is coming too hot and loud into the mix, which creates a lot of mud and some slightly ear piercing moments. The mud is very noticeable in the Ninja Gaiden section since the guitar arpeggios generate a lot of it. Another issue I found was the bass, I felt I couldn’t really hear the bass but after looking at the EQ curve there’s actually a lot of bass so… I dunno, maybe you didn’t find a bass patch that cuts through the mix well. Consider layering additional patches for this instead of simply pushing the current patch harder.
Overall, this is a pretty cool track! I really like the arrangement and although I think the production could be improved (basically, control the reverb/ambience mud and fix the bass), I feel it’s good enough to pass. Like Josh, I decided to come here and split the vote!
YES

Very interesting approach to the arrangement here, let's break it down:
Track begins with a pad, bass and an irregular kick pattern (it doesn't bother me as it did other judges though). Things seem to be in E minor here but at 0:26 the B melody from the source enters and there's a big point of contention, since the original is on F major (for this section) and you didn't change the key, which creates a huge dissonance. Of course, write-up shows you actually intended this but I don't think it's effective. Dissonance is a valid tool but I don't think flat out slotting a melody over an unfitting key works without extra effort, it's something you probably need to set up effectively. At 0:49 we move into a new section, with bass and melody on A major, an odd choice after the dissonant part. The beat here is cool though, the hi-hat pattern is very Chrono Trigger-ish. 1:13 seems to be kind of a reprise of the intro that leads into an actual reprise a bit later. A fun drum fill moves us into a new section at 1:38. I like the energy here. The lower of the 2 melodies seems to be playing some liberal variations of the souce and 1:51 echoes one of the chord progressions from the original. A fairly odd synth arpeggio leads into a section with distorted guitar around the 2 minute mark that's basically one riff played over a set of different chords, would've been a good spot for a solo or something of the sort. At 2:27 there's a bit of break/keyboard solo over a static 8ths rhytmic pattern which leads into a repeated arpeggio starting from around 2:45 to 3:01 in a small "drum solo". We then get a reprise of the 0:26 melody but without the dissonance, much more pleasant! Finally, at around 3:35 we reach a take on the source's end of loop section and the track ends.
On the arrangement side, this is definitely an interesting piece. Changing Barret's Theme into a "battle theme" is a fun idea. Generally, I think the structure of the arrangement is solid but I have some criticisms. First is the dissonant section. You mention it "compliments everything that comes after it" but I don't really see it, the section right after the dissonance is an extremely upbeat one which is just a big whiplash that makes the dissonance lose purpose. There's some pay-off for the dissonance with the reprise at 3:01 but I feel that reprise would've still worked well without the big dissonant part earlier. Second is that there's a few parts where we basically have a bass part and percussion without nothing particularly interesting happening on top, like 1:01-1:13, 2:03-2:26 and 2:44-3:01. I also have a bit of trouble catching the vibe of the arrangement as it moves from tense sections to very upbeat melodies often. As a positive, I enjoy the general rhytm of the track, it's energetic and fun!
On production, there's a big issue with the samples used... they're simply not high quality enough. I won't bet on this but some even seem taken directly from SNES soundfonts, which is a valid approach if you take the time to write and produce them well. Bass, particularly, suffers from this, as the sample picked doesn't really cut well through the mix. Even if you can't find better samples, it'd also be a good idea to invest time into sound design. As an example, the synth doing the backing from 2:27 to 3:01 could really use some effects to sound more interesting. I don't have big criticisms of the mix itself other than sample quality really, the track sounds well.
Overall, there's a lot of potential here. Arrangement has interesting ideas but it needs some refinement. Production needs more work, focusing on making the instruments sound better (either by finding better samples or by mixing the existing ones in smart ways to make them better). I'd recommend hitting the workshop on the forums or the Discord and hopefully you hit us with a revision in the future!
NO

Begins with a heavily modified voice and some static effects. Around 0:30 a bright synth starts playing some scale-ish melodies that seem to hint at the main chord progression from the original (Em-D-C-B). A synth doing a potential variation of the main melody joins in on the second repetition with a kick drum rhytm and then a third synth starts playing a backing melody from the source. Additional elements keep being added over more repetitions, including a synth bass, pad and synth lead. The kick also has a fun effect where it becomes more present over time. It ends up quite chaotic but, as the elements were introduced one by one, it's still enjoyable and understandable. All of this leads to a "break" at 1:47 where there's less elements (hence the break) but the chaotic rhytm is kept. Ironically, less elements highlight some balancing issues. Bass/kick seem to be fighting for space, with the bass suffering the most as it's very hard to understand what it's playing (very wobbly sounding). I think at some points there's an additional synth bass doing some dubstep-ish flourishes but there's so much in there that it's not really easy to hear. Similarly, on the melody side of the arrangement, there's often 2-3 elements all clashing with each other. Around 2:25 there's a rhytm change into a straight 8ths bass line, welcome change of pace. Once again the mix feels busy, even when there's not that many elements there's a lot of clashes and things are hard to hear. Surprise sax at 3:14! Nice performance by Lucas, it's interesting that the sax line is doubled by synths, not sure it's actually necessary (given how busy the mix is already). Things start calming down and lead to a chiptune interpretation of the source for the end, with the modified voice ending the track.
On the arrangement side, this is an interesting approach to a very simple source. Original track has only one noticeable melody and 2 backings that provide the chord progression, so it's not much material. Here, you do a nice job of bringing a lot of variety into a source that doesn't really have much. Fellow judge prophetik makes a nice point about how much source is actually on here, but I'd say my take is different. Scales starting at 0:30 seem inspired by the celesta-ish instrument from the source (playing some simpler scales), but we could argue if this one counts or not. However, said melody is played almost straight by the synth that joins at 0:59 until the break at 1:47 (although it gets drowned out eventually). Section starting there also features the same melody and continues there until 2:54 at least (with the main melody also being there from 2:35). Main melody returns from 3:04 and is kept on the sax solo until 3:33 at least. For the next minute of the solo there's not evident source usage IMO. Finally, 4:23 until 4:52 is also clear source usage. I'd say there's heavy source usage from 0:59-1:47 (48s), 1:47-2:54 (67s), 3:04-3:33 (29s), 4:23-4:52 (29s). Adding all of that there's 173 seconds of source usage in a 306 seconds remix, so 56%! As an aside, beyond calculator antics I do feel that the entire remix being based on the chord progression from the source (down to the B major) also helps since, at the very least, it's always echoing the mood of the original.
On production there are heavy balacing issues. The track is often extremely busy, at times it feels intentional and it works (like from 0:59 to 1:47) but most of the time it simply feels like a couple elements are taking a lot of space and leave little for the rest. Generally, I'd say the drums are the main culprit, as they're loud and there's also a lot of reverb, which tends to take a lot of room. Bass is also another issue, they seem very mid heavy and that also takes a lot of space from the instruments doing melodies. That said, even if these issues were fixed I think you should also look at the balance between synth parts, there's many of them focusing on similar octaves so balancing them will be challenging. You could consider moving some melodies to different octaves to separate them easier.
Overall, this remix has a really cool vibe and a very creative approach to a source that's extremely light on material. However, I think the mix needs a second pass focusing on clarity, right now it's just way too hard to grasp all the different elements going on, with the drums and bass often eating a lot of space.
NO

In the shadows, we stay busy. ;-)
Joining us as a Sage, we now have @Treyt, who's shown off a lot of skills, enthusiasm, and potential since his fateful forum post nearly three years ago!
We're proud to announce some staff promotions with the twin magic of Sages @pixelseph & @paradiddlesjosh stepping up to become two of our newest judges! We had some fun internally joking that they were a package deal, yet I'm happy to say they both independantly have done well and proven themselves capable to help us out in this new capacity on the panel!
We've also honored to have another judges panel addition in @jnWake, who cut his teeth in OCR way back and has massively grown since becoming a Dwelling of Duels regular! All three of the new judges should help us NO every VGM arrangement submitted to us with more speed, politeness, and class. ;-D
Be sure to use our resources in the Workshop forums and our #workshop Discord channel and you may just get some feedback from our new staffers!

Woah! Best FFT cover I've probably ever heard. Sounds very professional, like something that should be on one of S-E's many arrange compilations. This goes right into my fave covers playlist. The transition between the songs is so fluid.

Cool cover!

Yeah, honestly "additional piano, synth bass" doesn't really capture the scope of how much jnWake's "bullshit" helped sculpt the sound and direction of this piece - it was absolutely integral to the final product and this would not have come together without his contributions. More Wake+Emu collabs in 2025 for SURE

One of the most fun collabs I've joined! After Emunator sent me an early WIP I responded with a ton of bullshit improvised over it and, shockingly, a lot of it actually made it to the final product. My favorite part is (surprise!) the piano solo around 2:22. I wrote the first half, Emunator wrote the second and I did the final recording, so it was actually a co-written solo, which I think is super cool!

Figured I could share the stuff I used in my latest track, most of it is stuff I use in other tracks as well. I'll highlight those that haven't been mentioned (I think):
Drums
Addictive Drums 2. Battery 4. Basically, I start with AD2 sound and then layer some extra stuff from Battery 4 to enhance the kit. I also use Battery 4 stuff for transitions.
Synths and similar
FM8 Massive/MassiveX Plogue chipsounds for chiptunes. (Here!) Effects
Guitar Rig for distortion on bass, guitars and keyboards. ReEQ for EQ, it's a free JS plug-in that has nice functions like side/mid EQ. (You can find it here!) OTT. TAL Reverb. (Here!) Ferric Saturator. (Here!) kilohearts suite (limiter mostly). Melda suite (saturation!). isotope Ozone for mastering. I also use a lot of libraries from Komplete 8 for stuff but I'm a bit lazy to list them all...

I mean, the rule discussed in the OP is pretty specific, regarding websites like Udio, which are quite dubious (ethically) in how they were trained. OP is not banning all uses of AI in music and points it out clearly. This is not about being technology myopic and saying "AI is the devil" or something silly like that. This isn't about "you can't use tools in music" or anything similar either. For example, I begin all my mastering from Ozone's "smart master" function, which uses AI.
I don't see the point in this honestly. Sure, a big percentage of stuff we use in music is, to some degree, a black box (like, I have no idea how an EQ actually does what it does), but the difference in how much control I have between those plugins and (today's) genAI tools is night and day. Although I don't know exactly how my VSTs generate the notes that they generate, I tell them what note to play and I usually have control over a decent amount of the sound properties. With genAI you don't have control beyond a prompt and stuff like modifying an output is basically impossible (with today's tools at least).
As for more complex prompts like what you're saying... I dunno, it seems like a technology so completely different to what the OP is discussing that I don't think bringing up it as an hypothetical makes much sense really.

Lol, I was so confused when I clicked a Secret of Mana remix and heard DKC. I thought that OCR screwed up big time.
Loving the combination of these two themes. It's clear there was a lot of effort to make these two themes sound like one rather than two different songs played at different times. It's not jarring, but at times it can sound like someone riffing. Not a bad thing though, there's always fun in people just riffing musically.
 
Good work to all of you. Love it lots.

This popped up on my YT feed today. Such a wonderful remix 🙂

This one got posted fast haha, always nice when that happens! I'm very proud with how it ended up, collaborating with Emunator worked out great and it was super fun.
The writeup on the mixpost page has this line as a quote: "Hehe, there is always room for new things, even for the most "overcovered" themes. The 2 tracks go surprisingly well together, don't they?"... I'm fairly sure I never said that haha, was that Emunator?

I mean, OP doesn't mention "basic prompts" or anything of the sort, it just mentions prompts. The "simple" part was by me 😋
There's really 2 points in the OP, one is about the ethics of how the models were trained regarding artist consent and copyright. I'm not sure if OCR's stance would be the same if the models were "ethically" trained or if, for example, a user trained their own model only on songs they made or something like that.
There's a second point about the "interpretation" aspect of AI generated music, the "human touch". I think we simply disagree here, I don't think current tools provide much "human touch". Even if Suno allows for more than "a simple prompt", the "human part" is still a low percentage of the finished creation. Of course this could change with time and how the technology evolves but it's my stance on what I've seen of current technology.
In the end, it's up to the community to decide how it approaches these things. I think it's fair if OCR decides it wants to focus on music that is created on a larger percentage by the "human touch" and, of course, policies can change over time as technology evolves.

I started the arrangement with a jazz fusion style on my mind, but prog rock started winning as I added more sections.
 
I’ll take a look at the piano tone the judges mentioned. I’m using NI’s “The Giant” which has a variety of possible sounds, but I’m intentionally tweaking it for an aggressive and bright sound. I probably overdid it haha.

This is really good stuff. You hit the mood of those old games with a crisp modern sound.  

I actually do it a little different from what's been shared here. I tend to start by trying to figure out the bass (the root notes at least) and from there get the chord progression and key of the song. In my opinion, you get a lot of useful information from a song from just this. Melody is important of course, but a ton of VGM songs tend to play around the chord notes so, once you know the chords, the melody comes easy.
When it comes to actually writing a remix, I tend to learn the song and then just sit down and improvise. It helps if you have a predefined idea, like, "make a metal cover", but usually just playing around with the melodies and chords is enough to trigger some inspiration.

Hey! I haven't posted here in a long time...
Anyways, I recently started a project of making my own OST for a game that doesn't exist (ideas exist in my mind but I'll likely never do it haha).
So far I've uploaded 5 tracks:
#1. Intro - Meant to play alongside some intro cutscene of sorts, maybe with some battle and the aftermath.
#2. Menu - Meant to be funky menu music.
#3. Prison - Meant to play on the introductory level, which takes place in a creepy prison, hence the music being calm and somewhat eerie.
#4. Prison Boss - Meant to play when you battle the Prison's guardian.
#5. Castle: Garden - Meant to play on the first proper level, so it's adventurous and fast paced (mostly).
Hope you enjoy! Any feedback is appreciated, though the mixing and production aren't meant to be super polished as I'd rather compose tracks than produce them at the moment.

Did anyone claim Overworld after me? I still have a WIP sitting on my computer.
I figure I can finish it lol.

Did anyone claim Overworld after me? I still have a WIP sitting on my computer.
I figure I can finish it lol.

Did anyone claim Overworld after me? I still have a WIP sitting on my computer.
I figure I can finish it lol.

Glad to see my track survived lol.

No restrictions. You can do an arrangement that covers several sources as long as it's cohesive and doesn't feel like a medley. My only posted mix that I arranged is of that type!