Retro Remix Revue (New Album Coming Soon)

[joe_cam]

.....face!

[Beatdrop]

Seeing as REMIXING LEGENDS OF OLD are coming out of the woodwork to chime in on this topic, and despite the fact that I skipped the last couple of pages for the sake of generating this response NOW instead of later, I figured I'd contribute my opinion on the whole subject.

WTF?

After reading the first few pages, it seems like the general conversation/discussion/argument is as follows:

Person 1: "THIS SUCKS! But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong."

Person 2: "Oh yeah?! Well here's MY opinion!"

Person 1: "I respect your opinion, but here's MY opinion again for good measure."

Person 2: "FUCK YOU! I completely understand your opinion, but here's MY opinion again just because."

etc. etc. etc.

I don't get it! Why can't people just live and let live? Retro Remix Revue is Retro Remix Revue's thing. Let them do their thing. OCR is OCR's thing. So on and so forth. If you want to be thickheaded and think that OCR's way is the ONLY way even when everyone who represents OCR says that's ridiculous, then by all means feel free. Like, are people jealous that these guys may actually make some sort of money off of this? Sure, if they didn't license the rights, then that's bad, but does anyone even know if they did or did not license any of it yet? Not that I saw. So what's with all the throat-jumping over hypotheticals?

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Seeing as REMIXING LEGENDS OF OLD are coming out of the woodwork to chime in on this topic, and despite the fact that I skipped the last couple of pages for the sake of generating this response NOW instead of later, I figured I'd contribute my opinion on the whole subject.

WTF?

After reading the first few pages, it seems like the general conversation/discussion/argument is as follows:

Person 1: "THIS SUCKS! But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong."

Person 2: "Oh yeah?! Well here's MY opinion!"

Person 1: "I respect your opinion, but here's MY opinion again for good measure."

Person 2: "FUCK YOU! I completely understand your opinion, but here's MY opinion again just because."

etc. etc. etc.

I don't get it! Why can't people just live and let live? Retro Remix Revue is Retro Remix Revue's thing. Let them do their thing. OCR is OCR's thing. So on and so forth. If you want to be thickheaded and think that OCR's way is the ONLY way even when everyone who represents OCR says that's ridiculous, then by all means feel free. Like, are people jealous that these guys may actually make some sort of money off of this? Sure, if they didn't license the rights, then that's bad, but does anyone even know if they did or did not license any of it yet? Not that I saw. So what's with all the throat-jumping over hypotheticals?

I respect and in fact completely agree with your opinion, so FUCK YOU.

[Mustin]

hahaha awesome

[joe_cam]

Thai Guy makes me realize how much I love Dhsu.

[gamermcchester]

Seeing as REMIXING LEGENDS OF OLD are coming out of the woodwork to chime in on this topic, and despite the fact that I skipped the last couple of pages for the sake of generating this response NOW instead of later, I figured I'd contribute my opinion on the whole subject.

WTF?

After reading the first few pages, it seems like the general conversation/discussion/argument is as follows:

Person 1: "THIS SUCKS! But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong."

Person 2: "Oh yeah?! Well here's MY opinion!"

Person 1: "I respect your opinion, but here's MY opinion again for good measure."

Person 2: "FUCK YOU! I completely understand your opinion, but here's MY opinion again just because."

etc. etc. etc.

I don't get it! Why can't people just live and let live? Retro Remix Revue is Retro Remix Revue's thing. Let them do their thing. OCR is OCR's thing. So on and so forth. If you want to be thickheaded and think that OCR's way is the ONLY way even when everyone who represents OCR says that's ridiculous, then by all means feel free. Like, are people jealous that these guys may actually make some sort of money off of this? Sure, if they didn't license the rights, then that's bad, but does anyone even know if they did or did not license any of it yet? Not that I saw. So what's with all the throat-jumping over hypotheticals?

Hilarious... couldn't have summed it up any better.

[OverCoat]

I agree with Mustin here, licensing is shit. And I don't see how selling arrangements cuts from the game companies' or original composers' profits. Especially when they typically just get paid one big lump sum for completing a game soundtrack anway. Not to mention the fact that they usually sound way different than the original even if they are covers. If someone was charging money for a remix album in the Bad Tuna sense [original with drumloops on top], then I'd find it a bit... fishy. But groups like Select Start or Armcannon deserve every cent.

[po!]

EDIT: oh and someone might have mentioned it somewhere before, but why is everyone making the assumption that we'd reject these songs if they were submitted?! They haven't been subbed to this site and we haven't judged them, so you can't say that OCR would crap on arrangements like these.

it's easy to assume cuz we can deduce what your criteria are for judging arrangements based on the many many judges decisions you've made over the past few years. even someone like me who rarely reads the judges decisions knows that you all reject arrangements that are too conservative (covers) and too liberal (not enough of the source material! NO)

[Liontamer]

Maybe I'm just a jaded old schooler

Yeah, that's right.

As for getting Dave's attention by saying the music is soulless and no fun, that's definitely a great way to do it. I could see how he felt insulted by that.

Now when you say the site isn't the same as when you found it, that's true. But I don't see why that's automatically a negative thing. Lots of old schoolers dropped out, but new people have come in. And when you broadstroke that it was only "fun and had heart" when it was about Ailsean, McVaffe & JAXX, you're just out of touch with stuff from AnSo, Sixto, Shnabubula and zircon, the new regulars. I need to remind that the interweb is a poor conduit of emotion, so I'm definitely not mad or upset or anything like that. But we didn't get old & busted at OCR because you don't follow it closely anymore and don't connect readily with what's here now. We're doin' fine.

Now I agree with you on the broad point that less music "stands out." But I only agree with that because the better creativity and quality consistency from track to track means you don't have an Ailsean or AmIEviL standing out from a crowd of "FL teknoz" like back in the old days. So instead of A-grade stuff shining from a crowd of Cs and even Ds, it's all As and Bs. There's no hate on the older stuff, but the bar's been raised. Not even just by the judges. The community collectively getting better made the bar go higher.

But yeah, you're entitled to the opinion, and I'm sure some people agree. On the internet, the shelf life of a website only lasts so long for some people. But when anything's been around for a while and becomes an institution, that's bound to happen.

I think we're in good company. I'm sure FARK.com, Homestar Runner, Slashdot, etc. get the same rap from some old schoolers. If you evolve, you're bound to have some old schoolers feel things somehow went to shit. In 5 years, that'll probably be Angry Video Game Nerd, Zero Punctuation and Destructoid: "Old & busted," yet still popular and as good as ever, if not better.

Ahh, the project director thing threw me off. I apologize for attack the leaders then. But I don't apologize to the people who actually did try and crap all over this album

Just be sure to read more closely next time. A vocal minority was critical of the album's approach in the first few posts, but it doesn't represent OR typify the community's response, just like Joe Cam's "What happened to the magic? We used to cuddle!" complaint about OCR is a minority opinion.

The thing that would be the most annoying is that, despite the staff and several other ReMixers and community looking forward to Retro Remix Revue, a couple of people said "meh" and that somehow becomes "how all of OCR feels about the album." It's not.

[Mustin]

it really boils down to the fans. not to hate on fans. but the people in the community's "inner workings" have, for the most part, transcended all bullshit and now it's just about the music. fans have their own feelings and morals about things. that's cool too.

there's def the old school still happening. the Bad Dudes are a lot of those "old school remixers" from back in the day still making hot tunes that fill the air. and i'm submitting my sagat mix off of Thai Guy to OCR. and if and when it gets rejected, it won't matter, because that would be like getting upset about your abstract painting not getting accepted to the national museum of portraits of american historical figures. don't enter your delicious pizza into a cake contest.

the interwebs are teh big. don't flip out when a new kid comes to town.

<3

p.s. i'm drunk

[Monobrow]

it's easy to assume cuz we can deduce what your criteria are for judging arrangements based on the many many judges decisions you've made over the past few years. even someone like me who rarely reads the judges decisions knows that you all reject arrangements that are too conservative (covers) and too liberal (not enough of the source material! NO)

hey can I be your friend because you have da best blog in da world

[joe_cam]

The "What happened to OCR" isn't a minority opinion, it's MY opinion. I speak for nobody else.

And to me, yes, the site doesn't seem the same. But you know what, that's not what this thread is about, so whatever. I guess that's why my remix projects will never be OCR projects, because I don't agree with how things go down here. I'll take a good song with mediocre production over a boring song with top notch production any day. It seems like the total opposite here, but again, IT'S MY SHITTY JOE CAM OPINION WHO HAS NO RESPECT FROM PEOPLE ON OCR BECAUSE I'M IGNORANT AND CLOSED MINDED.

Fuck you all, Bound Together forever bitches. <3

[Liontamer]

The "What happened to OCR" isn't a minority opinion, it's MY opinion. I speak for nobody else.

And to me, yes, the site doesn't seem the same. But you know what, that's not what this thread is about, so whatever. I guess that's why my remix projects will never be OCR projects, because I don't agree with how things go down here. I'll take a good song with mediocre production over a boring song with top notch production any day. It seems like the total opposite here, but again, IT'S MY SHITTY JOE CAM OPINION WHO HAS NO RESPECT FROM PEOPLE ON OCR BECAUSE I'M IGNORANT AND CLOSED MINDED.

Fuck you all, Bound Together forever bitches. <3

No need to get emo.

[joe_cam]

I love you Larry, you white son of a bitch.

[Fishy]

Just for the record, some of these sound acceptable on OCR based on the samples. The mario jazz is tight and not covery at all for one.

Also, the whole OCR only accepts soul-less polished crap is kind of a weird conjecture, I don't see that written in the standards. I YES mixes with questionable production if they have a lot of character quite a bit and larry hasn't come knockin' to kick my white ass yet.

[DarkeSword]

it's easy to assume cuz we can deduce what your criteria are for judging arrangements based on the many many judges decisions you've made over the past few years. even someone like me who rarely reads the judges decisions knows that you all reject arrangements that are too conservative (covers) and too liberal (not enough of the source material! NO)

Yeah that's true, but we're the ones that decide what's too conservative. In this case, some of these are just fine.

I am just absolutely bewildered at the direction this thread took. Someone posted about a remix album that's coming out. Why does it have to turn into a thread about the way OCR does shit? This album isn't being produced by OCR, it's not being submitted to OCR, etc. It has nothing to do with the standards and practices that OCR subscribes to, so why is any of this even an issue?!

Sometimes I feel like people will take any opportunity they can to criticize this place. It shouldn't have even been brought up, because that's not what this thread was supposed to be about.

I'm more interested in finding out who these guys are that did this album. Their site doesn't really have a lot of information.

[kaijin]

Yeah that's true, but we're the ones that decide what's too conservative. In this case, some of these are just fine.

I am just absolutely bewildered at the direction this thread took. Someone posted about a remix album that's coming out. Why does it have to turn into a thread about the way OCR does shit? This album isn't being produced by OCR, it's not being submitted to OCR, etc. It has nothing to do with the standards and practices that OCR subscribes to, so why is any of this even an issue?!

Sometimes I feel like people will take any opportunity they can to criticize this place. It shouldn't have even been brought up, because that's not what this thread was supposed to be about.

I'm more interested in finding out who these guys are that did this album. Their site doesn't really have a lot of information.

google everyone's names, you'll be in for a few surprises.

[djpretzel]

Sometimes I feel like people will take any opportunity they can to criticize this place. It shouldn't have even been brought up, because that's not what this thread was supposed to be about.

Probably means we're doing something right.

Honesty, joe can brush it off (and probably should), but when he says something specific that I disagree with on some other forum I don't show up and reiterate yet again how I disagree with the entire way he does things. It's bad form. You can't simultaneously want to come off as this mellow dude who'd be cool to share a beer with and then, whenever you don't like something specific, get on a soapbox and pontificate.

That being said, samples from the album sound pretty good to me. I still find unlicensed, commercial game mix albums problematic, but Mustin's points about the reality of licensing, especially with Nintendo, are important to remember. I think anyone doing this should at least try to make plenty of samples, preferably entire tracks, available free of charge, and use album purchases as a means of fans expressing support and not of obtaining the music in the first place.

[Jaybell]

This is a really awful thread but I am really liking these samples. I mean I like ocr a whole lot but sometimes it's nice to just have some straight up covers/conservative arrangements/whatever you wanna call 'em.

[gamermcchester]

This is a really awful thread but I am really liking these samples. I mean I like ocr a whole lot but sometimes it's nice to just have some straight up covers/conservative arrangements/whatever you wanna call 'em.

Now see what you all did? You made my thread awful!

On a serious note though, I just e-mailed them about what they're doing about the licensing stuff.

[Murmeli Walan]

It's kinda funny to me. I read the first page of the thread and the last page of the thread, and I really feel that I didn't miss anything in the middle.

Anywho, these samples are pretty decent. Anything recorded with live instruments is a big plus with me (not that I'm knocking the people with sequencing programs or anything. The last thing I wanna do is ignite the next seven pages with a live vs. reason/FL debate.)

[DarkeSword]

It's kinda funny to me. I read the first page of the thread and the last page of the thread, and I really feel that I didn't miss anything in the middle.

Anywho, these samples are pretty decent. Anything recorded with live instruments is a big plus with me (not that I'm knocking the people with sequencing programs or anything. The last thing I wanna do is ignite the next seven pages with a live vs. reason/FL debate.)

Shut up. The music that I make by drawing little boxes with my mouse is far better than anyone could ever hope to accomplish by plucking a string or blowing HOT AIR through some fancy tubes.

[zircon]

I agree with Mustin here, licensing is shit. And I don't see how selling arrangements cuts from the game companies' or original composers' profits. Especially when they typically just get paid one big lump sum for completing a game soundtrack anway. Not to mention the fact that they usually sound way different than the original even if they are covers. If someone was charging money for a remix album in the Bad Tuna sense [original with drumloops on top], then I'd find it a bit... fishy. But groups like Select Start or Armcannon deserve every cent.

That's stupid, Scott. It's an issue of rights. I don't have the right to walk into your house and take your shit - we live in a civilized world. Taking YOUR MUSIC and selling it, even if I do things to it, is another form of stealing as far as I'm concerned. The fees for mechanical licenses are dirt cheap anyway, so there's no excuse aside from logistics. Morally, there's no defending it, sorry. Armcannon and Select Start DON'T deserve every cent, they didn't do all the work.

[OverCoat]

I feel like a more fitting metaphor would be you selling a photoshopped picture of my house :3 but whatever. We seem to disagree on pretty much everything related to money and property, so I'll leave this thread alone for now.

[SwordBreaker]

I'm not paying for licenses anymore.

It's just too much hassle and no one cares. I will pay individual copyright holders (Yuzo Koshiro, Yasunori Mitsuda, etc.) but the rest don't care. Nintendo said themselves that they know it's happening and they're not going to do anything about it and they "never license their IP to anyone," which is a lie, but it's what they're supposed to say.

I don't see the point in licensing anymore. I tried it and it's a joke. I'm still going to license some stuff (SquareEnix stuff is easy to license because they're whores for cash like me), but I'd rather pay some dudes some money for their hard work entertaining me so they can buy a nice meal, and not care about paying the corporation that doesn't care about their IP, and at the same time, feel bad that the music is a "work for hire" so the composer - the brilliance behind all this - doesn't benefit in the slightest.

The more I get into business, the more I see how fucked up it is.

Sorry

Love how this thread deviated from the original topic then somewhat tried to get back to it and failed miserably. Reminds me of the boards of the site I work for. Hopefully, all the hate died down.

Anyway, interesting comment, Mustin. Never knew how much of a hassle this can get. Is there a direct way to get in touch with the individual composers and pay them like you mentioned or is that kind of complicated? It gets kind of confusing in my case at times. I mean, for example, to get to Nobuo Uematsu's music he did under Square-Enix, you have to contact the company since they technically own Nobuo's music, not Nobuo himself. I mean, even Uematsu is a bit pissed by the fact that SE constantly use/remix his music without asking him.

What I'm trying to say is...contacting the composer vs. contacting the company the composer works under...which is easier?