Windows 7

[Abadoss]

wait did microsoft stop supporting XP already?

I thought it was supposed to go a bit longer yet

Yeah, they stopped official support a little while ago.

[Schwaltzvald]

Yeah, they stopped official support a little while ago.

To further elaborate...

Support lifecycle

Support for Windows XP without a service pack ended on 30 September 2004 and support for Windows XP Service Pack 1 and 1a ended on 10 October 2006.

Windows XP Service Pack 2 will be retired on 13 July 2010, almost six years after its general availability. As per Microsoft's posted timetable, the company stopped general licensing of Windows XP to OEMs and terminated retail sales of the operating system on 30 June 2008, 17 months after the release of Windows Vista. However, an exception was announced on 3 April 2008, for OEMs installing to subnotebooks or UMPCs either until 30 June 2010, or one year after the availability of the next client version of Windows, Windows 7 — whichever date comes later.

On 14 April 2009, Windows XP will begin its "Extended Support" period that will last for 5 years until 8 April 2014.

[Gollgagh]

Yeah, that sounds about right.

[cobaltstarfire]

Replace your desktop? I thought that's what they made upgrade discs for.

You totally misread what I said, I'm not saying I need a new desktop for a new OS, I'm saying I'm worried the OS on my current desktop will lose support long before I can afford to buy a new computer. (That means I probably can't afford to pay for a new OS to upgrade either).

[q-pa]

Yes, I believe Windows 7 is said to use less memory, have faster bootup times, utilize multiple processors better, and run less unnecessary services.

Ha... ha...

HAAA HAAA HAAAA HAAAAAA HAAAAAAA!!

This is Microsoft we're talking about here, right?

Well... I don't mind XP, Vista, or W7. The only thing pissing me off are the FUCKING MAC ADS. When will this stop? We get it, if you make up BS, you can attack any company... Hopefully, W7 will still outsell any Mac OS and one day Apple will realize that Microsoft is doing that without bombarding with ads.

Yeah, as a Mac user myself I never did like the "Mac vs. PC" ads. If you want to make your point, make your point, but don't be smug about it and don't belittle the competition...

[BlueMage]

I put SP1 on it yesterday and it's still asking me for security confirmations every time I wanna install something or make any major change.

Well DUH!

Both are actions that can severly compromise your machine.

And this to everyone else bitching about not being able to afford a new machine:

Most of you live in fucking America - you pay roughly 1/3 of what I do for equivalent hardware. I'm upper-middleclass, but I still make my purchases sparingly - and yet I was still able to put together a machine that (in addition to be modelled very closely on the PCPP Beast of the time) could and does handle Vista with ease.

You have NOTHING to complain about.

I'm not even going to start on how much I paid for my Eee compared to what I should've paid.

[prophetik music]

whoa, a windows 7 thread and i wasn't invited? no fair.

[wiredzombie]

Well DUH!

Both are actions that can severly compromise your machine.

And this to everyone else bitching about not being able to afford a new machine:

Most of you live in fucking America - you pay roughly 1/3 of what I do for equivalent hardware. I'm upper-middleclass, but I still make my purchases sparingly - and yet I was still able to put together a machine that (in addition to be modelled very closely on the PCPP Beast of the time) could and does handle Vista with ease.

You have NOTHING to complain about.

I'm not even going to start on how much I paid for my Eee compared to what I should've paid.

hmmm, maybe thats because were living in a rough economy

so yeah, we have our struggle with economics, and you have you have yours with your higher priced tech

have fun with that btw

[Bahamut]

I know this is off topic...but please shrink that sig

[prophetik music]

new benchmarking data.

looks pretty inviting. i can't wait to build a monster system in honor of it (which is what i'm planning to do, i'm already saving for it). i've got the beta version that's out on the web as well and have been fooling with it. no games run on it, but it looks really nice. doesn't have the ribbon control, but is running windows ie 8 beta, which is also pretty good.

[The Author]

So I've had Vista on my laptop for a while now.

Why do we need Windows 7, I like Vista more than I like XP. It's a good OS, and I think most people approached it with the idea that it would suck and made sure there would be a self fulfilling prophecy...

Might be because I'm the admin though, I mean, whenever I want to install something, it's an extra click... An extra click that can save my ass sometimes. It boots faster than my XP desktop ever did, and frankly, I love it.

(It's not like I don't know Windows either, I mean, I've had 95, 98, ME, 2000 and XP over the years... And Vista has replaced 2000 at the top position on my list... The people who compare Vista to ME never had ME for sure.)

[Blue123]

Ha... ha...

HAAA HAAA HAAAA HAAAAAA HAAAAAAA!!

This is Microsoft we're talking about here, right?

Yeah. If you want to make your point, make your point, but don't be smug about it and don't belittle the competition...

[The Author]

Yeah. If you want to make your point, make your point, but don't be smug about it and don't belittle the competition...

That is the problem with Mac and Linux users.

They don't want to show they have a better OS, they want to belittle others to validate their choice. It's always about how they have something that is infinity better, but we are too idiotic (linux) or not trendy enough (Mac) to understand. But thank god for them, since they will ridicule our choices until, like beaten dogs, we change our ways...

But it doesn't work like that and they just make themselves look like douches.

Which is why, even if I do like Mac OS, their ads make sure that when I look at purchasing a computer, I will always pick PC. Last time I picked trendy but rude over uncool but nice, I was in elementary school, and I made my best friend cry.

[SenPi]

yeah.. see thats what I dont get. I mean for me, choosing an OS or whatever is all about what it offers.

I use Windows for games and windows only programs, I have a Mac OSX Laptop that I use for school (Since I am taking a Computer Science degree, and the Mac platform is more suited for programming), and I use Linux here and there for the same reason as my Mac, and a few other reasons as well. I dont choose things because other people like it, or its the "hip" thing to do. It shoulnt even be like that, people should choose an OS based on what it can offer THEM, not on how popular it is.

Anyways (ontopic) windows 7 is looking pretty sweet so far, from what I have read (and assuming microsoft actually implements alot of the stuff they have been talking about) it looks like its gonna be really good.

[Zephyr]

Windows 7 eh? I hope they just take a balance between Vista and XP.

[Darth Lime]

I recently switched to Vista just to try it out. Took a few days to get used to it, but now its just second nature. You can turn off the security pop-ups and make it just like XP.

And the only performance hog is the svchost.exe, which is currently taking up 121,892 K of cpu... x13.

I think I'm gonna stick with Vista for a while.

[The Pezman]

That is the problem with Mac and Linux users.

They don't want to show they have a better OS, they want to belittle others to validate their choice. It's always about how they have something that is infinity better, but we are too idiotic (linux) or not trendy enough (Mac) to understand. But thank god for them, since they will ridicule our choices until, like beaten dogs, we change our ways...

But it doesn't work like that and they just make themselves look like douches.

As a recent convert from Windows to Mac, I'll speak on this, and basically say that I agree with you regarding the culture of Mac users. I don't like it, and I don't support it. But that didn't stop me from purchasing a Macbook when they updated it and being very happy with my decision.

yeah.. see thats what I dont get. I mean for me, choosing an OS or whatever is all about what it offers.

I dont choose things because other people like it, or its the "hip" thing to do. It shoulnt even be like that, people should choose an OS based on what it can offer THEM, not on how popular it is.

Word, mang.

As someone now fairly familiar with both OSes, I'll outline a few positives about my Macbook and its OS, and though I will need to compare it to what Windows does to do so, I will be as objective and straightforward as possible.

1) The hardware/software interactions possible by having both coming from the same place. This includes minor things like the LED battery indicator, the hotkeys, and the various multitouch gestures available on the trackpad, to more major things like Core Audio (no audio driver settings to mess around with), which is something anyone on this site should appreciate.

2) A more streamlined interface. I can go to the finder and discover what I need instantly. Installation of most programs involves a one-step dragging of a single, self-contained program to your applications folder. The menus are clear, straightforward, organized, and provide you with just as much information as you need to know (whatever technical level you're on). And if you need help, the help feature returns any number of topics sorted by relevance.

3) More features out of the box. Windows users can download a number of little programs which can graph functions, perform advanced scientific calculations, record music, throw up webpages, video chat, share screens, edit photos, and more. Macs support all that out of the box. My teacher claims that the only reason Windows doesn't is because of antitrust suits. That whatever programs Microsoft developed would eclipse third party programs in use simply because they came with the OS. Apparently, in Europe Real Player was trying to get Windows Media Player taken out. Macs don't comprise enough of the market share to be worth similar suits. I don't know how true this all is, but regardless Macs can do much more than Windows machines can without additional downloads or installations. This also promotes a unity and flow throughout the OS and applications.

4) More support for outside features. You may do a double take at this at first, but it really is true. And if Mac doesn't inherently support it, you can bet there is some inexpensive or free software which does. With that in mind, Macs support coding for all sorts of languages, the ability to run other OSes fluidly (since they can write drivers to support Windows and flavors of UNIX), reading NTFS and other file systems, controlling applications which access the Internet, and more. They're tight with software developers as well, so everyone can be on the same page about what kind of software should be coded, and the best way to do it. And whatever Mac OS can't support at all, the whole "run other OSes" pretty much takes care of it.

5) This is what will actually bring it back around to the topic at hand: updates and upgrades. Microsoft spends all its time with Windows working on service packs and bugfixes to plug different holes, which prevents them from taking chances and releasing a significant upgrade more than once every four or five years. Apple certainly has to deal with bugs and issues as well, but there are fewer of them, and as a result they're able to issue major upgrades once every two years or so. The idea of Windows releasing a whole new version and Mac releasing a version update is more than semantics: Microsoft changes the look of every Windows version to make it look new and fresh, while Apple does less of that and more of identifiable new features for developers and users alike.

I'm not going to talk about spyware (or lack thereof) because that has less to do with MacOS itself and much more about its current market share.

I hope that was a reasonable, well-thought out description of what I, at least, enjoy more about Mac OS. I didn't belittle Windows users for their choice (cost is a big consideration), and I still recommend it for people who want nothing more than to write up documents and check their email. But if you're a power user who likes to do as much with a computer as you can, then I would definitely recommend Mac OSX. And with EFIX you don't have to buy a ridiculously expensive Mac Pro either.

Also note that we have a pretty good idea of what Snow Leopard is going to do (OpenCL, tighter sized programs, etc), but I don't know what Microsoft really has up their sleeve for 7.

[Native Jovian]

Hey, let's talk about Macs in the Windows 7 thread.

[Sengin]

and the Mac platform is more suited for programming

Wait...what? How? I can program in any language in Windows, easily, and I don't have to put up with the shitty mac mouse and keyboard (as well as other things). Am I missing something?

Anyway, I am definitely looking forward to Windows 7, especially once I get a Core i7 920. So far, I've got a nice case and a hard drive...only lots more money left to save!

[The Coop]

The thing I'd like to see in the next Windows, is a better backwards compatibility feature. With each new Windows version, we've lost more games and/or software due to it not running as well (if at all) in the new OS. It happened with 2K, ME, XP, and Vista. Surely Microsoft knows how to do it, and what core parts of previous OSes they'd need to replicate to do this. Set the compatibility mode, the executable then uses the needed files tucked away in a specific spot in the System folder, and then all of us can continue to enjoy our 80s and 90s games without having to apply buggy user patches, or third party emulators like DOSBox and Glidos.

I can't imagine it's that hard to do for them... is it?

[SenPi]

Wait...what? How? I can program in any language in Windows, easily, and I don't have to put up with the shitty mac mouse and keyboard (as well as other things). Am I missing something?

Anyway, I am definitely looking forward to Windows 7, especially once I get a Core i7 920. So far, I've got a nice case and a hard drive...only lots more money left to save!

umm.. what?

Try programming in C or C++ without having to pay for Visual Studio, or having to run cygwin and have to include the cygwin.dll with every exe you make.

Programming in certain languages on windows is just a hastle. Unless you are programming specifically FOR windows, its a hell of alot easyer to program on mac or linux (or unix for that matter).

(Lets say I asked you to make a C program to calculate fibonachi's numbers, you have no OS. Option 1. Install windows for 50 hours (exaduration), pay for VS or have to spend like 40 minutes trying to install cygwin or mingw and whatnot, then make the program, etc. Option 2. Install linux/use a mac/etc. Takes 20 minutes to install, open up a terminal, code the program, compile, done.)

Let me put it this way.

Linux is based off Unix

Mac is somewhat of a different flavour of unix (graphical unix if you will)

and what "any languages" are you talking about? I have a sneeking suspition that you are talking about web languages, or a portable language like java.

Also, what do you mean shitty mac keyboard and mouse? The mice are pretty much the same, they have right and left click just like everybody else, and a scroll thingy. As for the keyboard, its the same as any other keyboard (albeit somewhat different in its design, but Ive never had a hard time moving from keyboard to keyboard as they are pretty much ALL created pretty similarly), and what "other things".

Again I'm talking from the perspective of using pretty much every different flavour of OS, and I also have a feeling that you are just one of those "WINDOWS RULES MACS SUCK" people, who dislike macs for no real reasons.

[Hector]

Price. Systems with Windows tend to be far cheaper than their equivalent Apple systems.

As to Vista, if the best that can be said about it is that it can be made to be like XP, I'll stick with XP.

[Random Hajile]

Macs are no good imo because they don't offer enough of a difference from windows computers to warrant their price. The interface is smooth, nice. and well put together, but until I can buy a game and KNOW it will work with my operating system I'm not too interested in the niche market of Macs.

[Sengin]

Argh, I really dislike the hate that comes from people when I say that I don't like macs.

umm.. what?

Try programming in C or C++ without having to pay for Visual Studio, or having to run cygwin and have to include the cygwin.dll with every exe you make.

It's easy. Install Visual Studio Express. It's free, easy, and a very nice IDE for C/C++ applications. I have used it especially for OpenGL coding, and I loved it. Not to mention that it is free, and I can do whatever I want with it (you would think that the express version would be like a sort of "limited" version, but I have not found anything that I cannot do with the express version).

By your response, I am assuming there is a free C/C++ compiler for macs? I'm asking because I do not know, as I have not had a need to program in C/C++ for a mac (as I generally do everything I can to use a Windows machine over a mac).

Let me put it this way.

Linux is based off Unix. Mac is somewhat of a different flavour of unix (graphical unix if you will)

Yes, I know, as I'm sure a lot of people do (well, unless you are the sort of person who buys a mac because it's "trendy").

and what "any languages" are you talking about? I have a sneeking suspition that you are talking about web languages, or a portable language like java.

C/C++ and Java mostly since they are the most commonly used; however I have also programmed in Lisp, Ruby, PHP, Prolog, and some others using a Windows utility called Putty to connect to my university's Unix machine. In this case, I'm referring to Putty, which is extremely easy to use to connect to the machine so that I am able to use those languages. I have not found a language that is difficult to program in for Windows.

<keyboard/mouse rant>

I mean how the keyboard is stupidly unresponsive and difficult to type with (as in the keys are not sensitive), and how the mice are generally, in my experience, to be somewhat sluggish (and I have not had the chance to use a two-button mac mouse).

Again I'm talking from the perspective of using pretty much every different flavour of OS, and I also have a feeling that you are just one of those "WINDOWS RULES MACS SUCK" people, who dislike macs for no real reasons.

I have used a variety of OSes, from Windows to Ubuntu to Mac OS X and others as well. I have to regularly use Unix, Windows, and Mac OS X (though I think some of the machines I've used have Leopard on them). By regularly, I mean I presently use Windows every day, Unix a couple times a month (it used to be more though), and Mac OS a couple hours a week. Why do you think I am one of those anti-mac people for the hell of it? Yeah, I definitely prefer Windows over other OSes, and if I don't like an OS, I have reasons. I hate navigating around the file system in Macs unless I know the absolute path name of my file, opening files in Macs (I tried to open a simple Java file and it took me a couple of minutes of searching online to open an editor that wasn't equivalent to notepad's functionality) and it turns out that the reason I couldn't find it looking through the the applications folder was because the name wasn't anything descriptive about it's use, and plenty of other things (it seems that every time I use a Mac for more than an hour I learn something else I dislike about it).

[DarkeSword]

C/C++ and Java mostly since they are the most commonly used; however I have also programmed in Lisp, Ruby, PHP, Prolog, and some others using a Windows utility called Putty to connect to my university's Unix machine. In this case, I'm referring to Putty, which is extremely easy to use to connect to the machine so that I am able to use those languages. I have not found a language that is difficult to program in for Windows.

Just wanted to address this. Using Putty to connect to a UNIX machine is not using a Windows machine to do your programming. You're not developing anything on the Windows box. You're doing all of your developing on the UNIX machine.