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Cecilff2
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Models? Texture quality? Shaders?

How about the fact that the BF3 pic has actual shadows?

You can argue that the graphical STYLE is the same (gritty realistic bloomy 'brown'), but to claim that the actual technological quality is the same is pretty damn ignorant.

Edited by Tensei
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I don't understand how you cannot see the difference. That's ridiculous.

I don't understand how you can.

It's not a matter of eyesight or clarity or any of that. I don't need glasses (work requires a rather comprehensive vision test every year as part of qualification, including some sort of retina mapping thing to make sure we aren't just guessing and cheating... it's not comfortable and I would advise against it if you are asked to do it. It involves pressing stuff against yourlens and blinding you with lights for five minutes). Nor do I have some agenda, as I don't play any of those games (and in fact hardly play anything these days). If this was about gameplay, I wouldn't even bother talking right now, as I know I have experience to comment on it.

But looking at something isn't about experience or loyalty to a series or any of that. Both those games look so close to each other, I can't really tell the difference between them. I see soldiers in some place, I see them doing things, and I don't get how one is supposed to look better than the other.

Even if I look at the highest resolution images available, and I zoom in and pan around, I still just see two images that offer nothing to distinguish themselves from each other.

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I think what you guys don't fully realize is this: you have experience playing both games and you are debating with a person that admits to not playing neither.

Yes, I can tell the difference between the two because I played them both, but if I didn't, I wouldn't know, or care.

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If you can't really tell the difference then you really have nothing to contribute to a discussion of the technical capabilities of hardware. You're criticizing and comparing the art direction of the two games, which are basically the same, but art direction and graphical quality are two different things.

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With dev costs going crazy as it is in this generation with no slowing down, I can't imagine next-gen faring that much better. In fact after watching the tech demos for stuff like Luminous Engine or Unreal 4, the first thing on my mind wasn't "holy crap this is amazing!" It was "my god, this is going to cost a fortune and potentially kill some dev studios."

This is going to be a very interesting generation in gaming. The Wii U is essentially just a slight upgrade over current HD consoles from what I'm understanding which would probably be palpable for devs trying to avoid said costs, but who can say the install base will ever be there? Sony and MS are probably close to officially announcing their next-gen solutions, and mobile and handheld gaming are both making greater tech strides, but as amazing a piece of hardware the Vita is, it isn't selling at all, and yet the 3DS and software is selling like hotcakes, and MS is positioning themselves with their new Surface to make a big splash in that space with Windows 8.

It's a serious wild card scenario IMO

Edited by Malaki-LEGEND.sys
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Yeah, that is right. I haven't played them. I'm going by images and videos I find online. I look at them and I watch them and I don't see the difference.

Fine, we've argued this to death now. I don't see it, you guys do.

Art on the two games is another thing I've having trouble picking the two apart from. I see very similar aspects in both games. I don't see what the two deal with differently to make them distinct.

Team Fortress 2 versus,say... any other game, the art stands out. There's no mistaking either one for the other. But Battlefield and Modern Warfare are so close I don't see what sets them apart.

With dev costs going crazy as it is in this generation with no slowing down, I can't imagine next-gen faring that much better. In fact after watching the tech demos for stuff like Luminous Engine or Unreal 4, the first thing on my mind wasn't "holy crap this is amazing!" It was "my god, this is going to cost a fortune and potentially kill some dev studios."

The Avengers movie cost as much as Star Wars The Old Replublic. Avengers made all that back in the first week of sales. TOR took how long? If they even did?

And people wonder why studios are folding so much these days.

Edited by The Damned
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Yeah, that is right. I haven't played them. I'm going by images and videos I find online. I look at them and I watch them and I don't see the difference.

Then there is no point in you arguing about the graphical quality of ANY game since you're evidently unable to recognize it.

It's like arguing that there's no real graphical difference between New Super Mario Bros. and NES Mario games, because hey, all I see is the same fat plumber stomping on turtles!

You should also probably stop trolling.

Edited by Tensei
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The Avengers movie cost as much as Star Wars The Old Replublic. Avengers made all that back in the first week of sales. TOR took how long? If they even did?

And people wonder why studios are folding so much these days.

That's because game companies have been completely backwards on how to finance and develop a game. Companies would be able to deal with this bad economy if they would have tried to manage how they finance their games. Constantly shelling money out for aesthetics and advertising can't help forever.

I can already guess that most companies are not going to want to bother making anything on Wii-U that won't be a port, in the vain hopes of financing their next next-gen blunder.

Can we really expect games to take that significant of a leap in graphical power next gen? There will be a slight difference, but not as substantial as people think there will be. If companies go all out on graphics next gen, consider them as good as dead.

I honestly doubt the hardware is "going to go all out". The tech is probably going to be A LOT more conservative to help cushion any sort of loses that they'll inevitably take. Of course, I'm probably wrong, and Sony and Microsoft are going to continue bleeding cash while trying to sustain their other products to keep them afloat.

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If you go by this chart, it lists one game as having a budget of $40 million for making it, and then $200 million for marketing it.

If that's accurate, I think we know where the bad decision-making started.

If most games followed that trend, then you have a problem where the games aren't the real cost issue, it's trying to get people to know it exists. You really shouldn't be spending summer blockbuster movie budgets telling people your game exists. That can't be good business.

Now, I know that people like use are on various sites, and we either actively follow news about games, or we stumble across them along our ways. And I do understand that there is a portion of the consumer base that isn't actively following a game constantly.

But I do have to wonder at what point do you forget that you have a customer base that you know is following the game/series, and is very aware of it coming out (and may have already pre-ordered it or will buy it regardless of marketing), and you spend all that much more trying to tell people that might not even be aware of it. If they aren't following it, might that be because they aren't interested in it?

I guess it's kind of a paradox: people that like it will get it, so advertising it heavily to them isn't necessary. But the people that the advertising is meant for are the ones that aren't necessarily going to be interested in it in the first place. Yes, some will buy it after the marketing kicks in, but at what point are you spending more and more money to get just a few more sells?

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If you go by this chart, it lists one game as having a budget of $40 million for making it, and then $200 million for marketing it.

If that's accurate, I think we know where the bad decision-making started.

If most games followed that trend, then you have a problem where the games aren't the real cost issue, it's trying to get people to know it exists. You really shouldn't be spending summer blockbuster movie budgets telling people your game exists. That can't be good business.

Now, I know that people like use are on various sites, and we either actively follow news about games, or we stumble across them along our ways. And I do understand that there is a portion of the consumer base that isn't actively following a game constantly.

But I do have to wonder at what point do you forget that you have a customer base that you know is following the game/series, and is very aware of it coming out (and may have already pre-ordered it or will buy it regardless of marketing), and you spend all that much more trying to tell people that might not even be aware of it. If they aren't following it, might that be because they aren't interested in it?

I guess it's kind of a paradox: people that like it will get it, so advertising it heavily to them isn't necessary. But the people that the advertising is meant for are the ones that aren't necessarily going to be interested in it in the first place. Yes, some will buy it after the marketing kicks in, but at what point are you spending more and more money to get just a few more sells?

I think this is a key. The issue as I see it is that game devs, or potentially just publishers and investors ARE trying to see game development as summer blockbusters that have enough widespread appeal that they'll recoup costs just like an Avengers or Dark Knight, but the reality is that games still are nowhere near that level. Devs and publishers really need to start cutting down costs realistically and stop making out gaming to be something it isn't.

Yeah we can say that more and more people are playing games than ever before, but that could be due to a wide variety of factors such as the rise of cheap or free mobile games, parents being more permissive, the Wii casuals fad, etc. Growth in gaming popularity might have next to nothing to do with quality or prevalence of $60 games and whatnot if we get a good look at the stats and trends.

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  • 1 month later...

Okay, so these Wii games(yes this is on topic, as the Wii U has full BC) will be on sale at Best Buy from 8/12 - 8/18 for their big Games Blowout or whatever.

- $4.99:

Rhythm Heaven Fever

- $9.99:

Rayman Origins(for PS3 and 360 too), Kirby's Epic Yarn, Animal Crossing: City Folk & Wii Party

Get on it, YOU CHEAPSKATES!

Edited by ocre
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More than 2 months after E3, I'll be surprised if ANY of the big 3 companies manage to keep interest burning for the next-gen systems before all 3 of them launch.

Meanwhile, this next question might seem a little strange, but have any of you, by any chance, seen any videos where a few WII U titles were scheduled for this November?

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More than 2 months after E3, I'll be surprised if ANY of the big 3 companies manage to keep interest burning for the next-gen systems before all 3 of them launch.

To be fair, we only have concrete details on one and the launch details will be revealed before the end of next month. The other two launch well into next year.

All of Nintendo's energy right now should be behind the Wii U launch AND making sure there's a compelling line of games in the months following launch. You'd be pretty dumb to completely discount the double dose of opportunity both 2D Mario at launch and the Holiday alone offer up to the Wii U's chances.

As for the other systems, at this moment, everyone is sure they are the 360/Kinect/PS3 on steroids. I won't comment on how much interest there is there, because there isn't any information to value that with any real meaning. Though I will say that people banking on hardware specs alone seem to be slow learners.

Edited by ocre
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  • 2 weeks later...

I recently got a hands on with the Wii U GamePad and Pro Controller to play a few Wii U games last Thursday at Nintendo's Wii U Experience in Austin.

I played Rayman Legends, New Super Mario Bros U, Pikmin 3, a couple of NintendoLand games and ZombiU (Project P-100, Batman Arkham City, Wii Fit U, Game and Wario and Ninja Gaiden 3 were there too but time didn't permit me to play them - Game and Wario had as long a line as Pikmin 3 and it took like 18 minutes to get to play that one.)

Anyway, some impressions on the controllers: I was VERY pleased with the GamePad and Pro Controllers. They feel light (but not cheap) and the button and stick placement is as easily adapted to as Nintendo's controllers always have been. Everything feels natural and the screen on the Wii U GamePad feels smooth and solid (I was afraid it would have a cheap feel- it feels very similar to a 3DS screen.)

Rayman Legends has been elevated from "will probably get" to "definitely want it on launch" for me, after demoing a stage. It's really gorgeous (even moreso than Origins) and the co-op play (I had my brother using the GamePad while I played as Rayman on the Pro Controller, and we switched so I got to use the GamePad to control the flying assistant fairy Murphy) is quite fun and involved. As Murphy you can cut ropes, turn handles, manipulate the level to find secrets and you can highlight the games collectibles to make them worth more points. Admittedly - and maybe it's because the venue was so chaotic - at first you don't know what in the environment you can manipulate, outside of the obvious cranks and ropes, but I'm sure with more time, everything would've been clear in no time.

NSMBU, in the interest of having as many people play it at once, was played in 5-player mode (4 people with Wii Remotes, 1 with GamePad) and with so many people playing, it was harder than I'm used to my Mario games being. Thankfully I'll be playing in 1 player most of the time, when I do get the game. Anyway, we were playing on the "rotating star platorms" level - I was immediately taken aback at how "heavy" Mario feels, though that may have been because I hadn't played a 2D Mario game since NSMB DS -there was a lot of dying among all involved, but I managed to be the only one still alive at the end of the level. I didn't get to play this one with the GamePad (placing blocks doesn't sound too interesting to me) but the player with the GamePad saved me from dying a few times, which was cool. Remembering that this game will be one of the ones you can play on the GamePad without the TV, and the fact that we haven't seen everything the game has to offer, keeps me interested in getting it at launch.

Pikmin 3 was playable in two modes - a 'time attack' mode where you have to collect fruit (which I strongly doubt will be the campaigns collectible du jour) and dead enemies against the clock - and a Boss Battle involving that giant millipede thing. I elected to play the time attack mode. I should note that they didn't allow us to use the GamePad to play this, instead they made us use a Wii Remote; I haven't played New Play Control Pikmin, but I assume the controls were the same, with the addition of a side-roll dodge move, which was kind of cool. The Nintendo rep showed me the map and replay functions that you can do with the GamePad, which were pretty cool. Since the vast majority of the main game is still a big secret, I'll still anxiously await getting my hands on the full retail version.

I was able to play a couple of games from NintendoLand, the Zelda one and Takamaru's Ninja Castle. The Zelda one is an -on rails- 'adventure' where you and whoever you're playing with use your sword and shield to navigate an outdoor area and a 'dungeon'. This was played with the Wii Remote instead of the GamePad. The swordplay is similar to Skyward Sword, where enemies can block if you're not slicing at the right angle, and shieldplay is rather simplistic, basically you raise your shield when the enemy fires arrows at you. If you get hit by anything, it deducts a heart from you and your companions shared pool of life. We didn't make it to the end of the stage.

Since the Nintendo reps were trying to get as many people to play as possible, they weren't demoing Takamaru's Ninja Castle BUT I was able to catch the NintendoLand couch at a lull and I asked if I could demo that one, and the rep allowed me to. The aiming is a bit more difficult than I was expecting, not by fault of the game design but just from the mechanics of physically aiming the GamePad. In the game, you rack up more points by throwing shuriken at the ninja enemies without missing any - the rep urged me not to haphazardly spam ninja stars, but it was difficult not to miss any without doing that. Of course, some portions of the minigame are easier if you take your time and aim carefully, for instance when the enemies throw their own stars at you. All in all, NintendoLand was alright. Not something I am expecting to go to the store and drop 60 dollars on, so hopefully it's a pack-in with the system at launch.

Lastly, ZombiU. This was one of the titles I was really anxious to test out and see if it was going to be worth getting at launch but unfortunately the idiot representative didn't reset the game and made me play at some 'escape' portion of the game where the flashlight goes out every 5 seconds, and there's some kind of ghost zombie lady attacking you at random. I died within 4 minutes of 'playing'(more like stumbling around near an air condition vent, disoriented) and my turn was over, while the guy before me got a ton of time playing a more low-key stage.

All in all, the event was a blast. They gave us custom Wii U lanyards with the state capitol building on it (quite classy), free drinks and snacks (a Wii U cookie and a Super Mushroom 'cakepop' on a stick). They had contests too but I didn't participate in those. My brother did take part in the Wii Fit U trampoline game contest but he got second place.

Edited by ocre
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***WALL O'TEXT***

All in all, the event was a blast. They gave us custom Wii U lanyards with the state capitol building on it (quite classy), free drinks and snacks (a Wii U cookie and a Super Mushroom 'cakepop' on a stick). They had contests too but I didn't participate in those. My brother did take part in the Wii Fit U trampoline game contest but he got second place.

Don't forget the blue drink that was nasty as hell.

Having done the same thing in DC, I will say that the event downplayed some of the fears that I had, and that the control scheme could allow for great new gameplay mechanics.

I've said it a million times already, but I would rather wait until the inevitable first wave of console grabs pass, and until they release Smash Bros WiiU (or whatever they call it) before considering to buy it.

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Don't forget the blue drink that was nasty as hell.

Having done the same thing in DC, I will say that the event downplayed some of the fears that I had, and that the control scheme could allow for great new gameplay mechanics.

I've said it a million times already, but I would rather wait until the inevitable first wave of console grabs pass, and until they release Smash Bros WiiU (or whatever they call it) before considering to buy it.

I personally just call it Smash 4 (sometimes just "season 4" in the context of Smash Bros. series discussion), but I agree. From this day forward, the time when a season of Smash Bros. kicks off will be the soonest I buy a new game console.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Bumperoni!!

Really I'm surprised I'm beating ocre at this.

spe.png

Wii U Basic - ¥26,250

-White

-8 GB SSD

-Wii U Console

-Wii U Gamepad

-Wii U AC Adapter

-Wii U Gamepad AC Adapter

-HDMI Cable

Wii U Premium - ¥31,500

-Black

-32 GB SSD

-includes Nintendo Premium

-Wii U Console

-Wii U Gamepad

-Wii U AC Adapter

-Wii U Gamepad AC Adapter

-HDMI Cable

-Wii U Console Stand

-Wii U Gamepad Charging Dock

-Wii U Gamepad Stand

Controllers

GamePad – 13,440 yen (includes adapter)

Pro Controller – 5,040 yen

Accessories

GamePad stand – 315 yen

Charge and Play stand – 1,890 yen

Games

New Super Mario Bros. U – 5,985 yen

Nintendo Land – 4,935 yen

-both will be retail/digital at launch (at least in Japan)

Nintendo Network Premium

- discount point program available only with the Wii U Premium Set

- focus on those who like to download a lot of content

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I think it's a mistake to not offer the two SKUs in each color. Hopefully Reggie and NOA agree with me. Even if I decided I was getting a black one before any of this was announced.

Also not a good thing that the Japanese release is in December. :|

IT'S STARTING! - http://www.nintendo.com/wiiu

2 SKU/Color/Pricing structure also being used in North America.

Release Date: 11/18/12

Price: Basic Model - 299.99; Premium Model - 349.99

-Premium model is black and includes Nintendoland, GamePad stand accessories and a digital purchase reward plan that lets you accumulate points redeemable for future 'downloadable content'.

From Platinum Games:

-Bayonetta 2! -Wii U Exclusive- Published by: Nintendo

-Project P-100 gets a real name: 'The Wonderful 101'

From Capcom:

- Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Full details forthcoming)

- CoD: Black Ops 2 officially confirmed.

Edited by ocre
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It was a pretty good event, and 50 launch window games?? Whoa, that's nothing to sneeze at.

I'm probably going for the premium set, although I just hope that Nintendo Land comes in a proper case rather than one of those cardboard slips so I can display it properly.

But the TVii thing confuses me. The Wii U doesn't have a port for cable tv, so how on earth does it know what channels you have available? other than that, it looks really cool, but if Nintendo is so set on making the Wii U your entertainment center (so you never have to switch inputs to the TV again) then why didn't they spend the extra $15 and just put in a DVD player? I mean COME ON.

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It was a pretty good event, and 50 launch window games?? Whoa, that's nothing to sneeze at.

I'm probably going for the premium set, although I just hope that Nintendo Land comes in a proper case rather than one of those cardboard slips so I can display it properly.

But the TVii thing confuses me. The Wii U doesn't have a port for cable tv, so how on earth does it know what channels you have available? other than that, it looks really cool, but if Nintendo is so set on making the Wii U your entertainment center (so you never have to switch inputs to the TV again) then why didn't they spend the extra $15 and just put in a DVD player? I mean COME ON.

LOL, a DVD player...

I think the Wii U will be taking what tv/video services you have (Netflix, Hulu, TiVo, HBO Plus...ect) and populating it's lists and organizing them into channels...or something. I wonder will they have something similar for music and radio.

The game line-up looks pretty cool so far. I'm just waiting to see what the next Mario Kart is going to look like.

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