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PSN is Back!!! - LulzSEC hacked by someone else. TROLOLOLOLOL

Brushfire

By Brushfire,
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EdgeCrusher Rookie

EdgeCrusher

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And most internet companies don't have the equivalent of what Sony had, and they don't wait a week to tell people if it DOES happen. The equivalent would be like Google losing usernames and passwords for everyone who uses GMail, and all of the email history for every user.. I mean, if they have their credit card information in their email. No, sorry, the example I just gave really isn't as extreme at all.

I don't normally reply to any of your posts, cause most of the time they are not worth my time, but this whole "They waited a week" crap is getting blown out of proportion bad.

http://www.psu.com/Hackers-kept-Sony-in-the-dark-for-nearly-a-week--a011453-p0.php

As listed here, they didnt even find out what the hackers had done until after the network was shut down and they did an investigation, then traced back that it happened between the 19th to 21st. They didn't have a magical warning sign pop up at the central command brain saying that "GOD" had logged in too late at night ala the movie Hackers.

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BardicKnowledge Newbie

BardicKnowledge

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Y'know, I really respect Zircon for his objective opinions, and I KNOW I'm being more subjective when I say this, but in general, I just hate Sony, and I have plenty of reasons to.

Before anyone thinks I'm just some H4x0R, pirate, scumbag, etc, I'm NOT. except with Sony. I'll explain why, and hopefully not get banned for my logic/opinion.

First and foremost, Sony's ALWAYS had a God complex. Think back:

-Sony finds out, before release, that a whole product line(Vaio laptops) had problems with their chargers and batteries(battery & charger production outsourced to separate companies). Sony releases said line ANYWAY. People's HOUSES BURN DOWN. Sony's response: "The EULA did not cover the battery or charger, OR incidental damage caused by either of the two."

-Sony BMG gets into a fight with Apple over iTunes royalties. Sony wants more, Apple literally CAN'T GIVE MORE, so declines. Sony then pulls their whole catalog from iTunes("if you won't play by my rules, then I'm taking the ball & going home"). Some rocket-surgeon at Sony figures out that if 'net-savvy people can't get their music from iTunes, that piracy might climb. In response, Sony releases a NASTY DRM Rootkit, which automatically installs upon auto-run of the affected discs. There is NO mention of said rootkit in the EULA(which is displayed WHILE the rootkit is silently installing). This rootkit opens up vulnerabilities to users' computers, and when one of the heads of Sony BMG is confronted on the subject, responds with:

"We figured most users don't know what a rootkit is, so they wouldn't care."

-In response to countless lawsuits and violated privacy laws around the globe, Sony releases a rootkit "uninstaller" which does NOT remove said rootkit. Lawsuits continue. In classic Sony style(Pun intended), they settle out of court and FINALLY release a removal tool.

-Sony releases PS3 with functionality that they end up REMOVING(as we already all know about), including backwards-compatibility & Linux.

-Sony releases PSP with hardware functionality locked out(IR transceiver , full 333 Mhz processor), advertising specs that are NOT actually accessible by the end-user.

What I'm saying here is that I'm an honorable guy, but I'm NOT about to let Sony slide when they're not going to be honorable. I use CFW on my PSP, and with that, I can convert my own, legit library of PS1 games to play on my PSP(Wip3out, anyone?). I use it as a remote control(with the IR transceiver). I run at a full 333Mhz, and I load my own(LEGIT) games from the memstick, conserving battery.

I consider myself somewhat aware of Sony's transgressions, and while I can't argue at their size, I'm not going to let them rape me just because they say they can. Am I opinionated and subjective? you bet I am. Until Sony realizes that their "might-makes-right" mentality is going to leave them beaten, I plan to continue cheering on the people who, like me, won't stand for consumer abuse.

All that said, it sucks that someone could violate Sony's legit users as they have. I'm glad I don't have any personal info stored with Sony, but if they'd taken the honest route with GeoHot, I'd speculate that this mess wouldn't have happened to begin with. Let tinkerers tinker. If you lump me in with the pirates, then you make enemies across the board. Bad idea.

Incidentally, I'm pulling all of this from memory, so if I'm incorrect on any of this, please let me know. I'm not Fox News, I'll concede if I'm wrong.

I agree entirely -- Sony's past record sucks terribly. It is unbelievable how much crap they have pulled and gotten away with lately. While I respect zircon's point that GE and other large companies are screwing us over more than Sony ever has, there's something more personal about Sony's activities (GE, while running away with truckloads of our collective cash, has not ever attempted to install a rootkit on my computer, for instance) that really upsets me.

This combined with Stevo / sephire's point about "You don't fuck with people who install Linux on their Playstations" spells a storm of bad trouble that was headed Sony's way. If they hadn't removed the advertised feature of the PS3, none of this would have happened...which doesn't excuse their poor security model, but that's more of a side point than the focus.

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ocre Newbie

ocre

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People. Have you ever had your home broken into?

Are you more mad with yourself for not having a laser grid security system or are you mad at the thieves who took your computer, tv, jewelery (hey, men can wear jewelery too), and your beer?

These people aren't heroes. They're miscreants who parade around with a guise of justice but they're actually just bullies. In this case, they've brought Sony down to it's knees by "exposing their weak security" (what company or government body who use computers isn't susceptible to attack if nothing is unhackable) and the stolen information is just insult to injury. "WAH they took my OtherOS and slapped our hands when we tampered with their system! Let's make jerks of ourselves and MAKE THEM PAY!" How childish. With great power comes great responsibility. And so on.

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Ramaniscence Rookie

Ramaniscence

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People. Have you ever had your home broken into?

Are you more mad with yourself for not having a laser grid security system or are you mad at the thieves who took your computer, tv, jewelery (hey, men can wear jewelery too), and your beer?

These people aren't heroes. They're miscreants who parade around with a guise of justice but they're actually just bullies. In this case, they've brought Sony down to it's knees by "exposing their weak security" (what company or government body who use computers isn't susceptible to attack if nothing is unhackable) and the stolen information is just insult to injury.

This is true, but if I had valuables stored in a bank, and they left 1 lazy security guard on duty with the vault closed but unlocked, and didn't tell me my stuff was gone until a week later...

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Brandon Strader Newbie

Brandon Strader

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People. Have you ever had your home broken into?

Are you more mad with yourself for not having a laser grid security system or are you mad at the thieves who took your computer, tv, jewelery (hey, men can wear jewelery too), and your beer?

These people aren't heroes. They're miscreants who parade around with a guise of justice but they're actually just bullies. In this case, they've brought Sony down to it's knees by "exposing their weak security" (what company or government body who use computers isn't susceptible to attack if nothing is unhackable) and the stolen information is just insult to injury. "WAH they took my OtherOS and slapped our hands when we tampered with their system! Let's make jerks of ourselves and MAKE THEM PAY!" How childish. With great power comes great responsibility. And so on.

I know we're just going in circles at this point but I would blame the person who left the door unlocked or didn't have an adequate lock on the door to begin with. But our house has two locks on the door, one is a padlock. Nobody's ever broken into our house in like 17 years. They've broken windshields and tried to rip my license plate off though. :-/

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Nonamer Newbie

Nonamer

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I know we're just going in circles at this point but I would blame the person who left the door unlocked or didn't have an adequate lock on the door to begin with. But our house has two locks on the door, one is a padlock. Nobody's ever broken into our house in like 17 years. They've broken windshields and tried to rip my license plate off though. :-/

I actually have been burglarized, and it wasn't because we didn't lock our doors or had inefficient security. It was because they smashed through a small bathroom window five feet off the ground (he must have been lean as hell); quite literally an exploitation of our security system. To bring this back to topic, while Sony is patching up the problem, they are also learning how to prevent the same problem from occurring again. It's actually similar to an immune system...

OCRE's right. Fuck those guys who broke down Sony's network. Someone should get the FBI on their ass.

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Gollgagh Newbie

Gollgagh

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The people who opened up console and installed linux again are NOT responcible for anything other than that. How would they know that Sonys security on the entire network, not related to the ps3 hardware itself, is also flawed?

Two completely seperate things

Perhaps they aren't directly responsible for the information leak but is the security of one necessarily utterly divorced from the other? I mean, the security keys for the PSP were stored on the PS3; would it really be that much of a stretch to say that special access to PSN would not be as well?

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Ramaniscence Rookie

Ramaniscence

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i know we're just going in circles at this point but i would blame the person who left the door unlocked or didn't have an adequate lock on the door to begin with. But our house has two locks on the door, one is a padlock. Nobody's ever broken into our house in like 17 years. They've broken windshields and tried to rip my license plate off though. :-/

you fix my fucking lock.

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RoadiePC Newbie

RoadiePC

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I understand the "Hackers are the bad guy"(waaay oversimplified) side of the fence, I really do. If some kid gets caught using said stolen CC info to try to buy laptops online, then YES, I hope the kid is made an example of. If someone DID(try to) get the Sony customer database, then I hope he burns for it.

Let me try to put this into (my)perspective:

XBOX 360s and WIIs are modded all the time, and piracy is rampant once that happens. However, piracy is an insult to a true Tinkerer. I actually had an old XBOX that could play burned games. Do you know what I did with it? I ran Linux, and using that, got it online to watch YouTube, and played a lot of really old(NES-Era) emulators. The only thing I had to worry about was a voided warranty. Again, I wasn't pirating games, and again, I know and respect the difference. I don't want to get into the legality of emulation, my point here is that Microsoft, Nintendo, and even the PC game devs are fully aware of the potential that their IP could/WILL be violated.

The difference is in their response to it. I mean, look at the indie scene. I think it was the guys behind Super Meat Boy(Awesome game, BTW), who said, more or less, "if you're gonna pirate it, there's nothing we can do. Tell your friends if you enjoyed the game, and if you like it enough, consider paying for it."

The response to that simple plea was enormous, and despite that it was an indie game with indie-game-security, it did well.

Most people DON'T inherently suck. In every populace, you'll find heroes, as well as villains. MY problem with this situation is that it's not simple enough to just classify people as black-hat or white-hat. I do things with my technology that I feel entitled to do:

-Hacked graphics card(unlocked GPU speed)

-Hacked phone(custom Windows Mobile)

-Hacked PSP(explained in previous post)

-Hacked Xbox(as mentioned)

......But that does NOT make me a bad guy, or a thief. When a company with as tarnished a history as Sony's starts vilifying people like me, frankly, I get pissed off. "Pot vs. Kettle" doesn't even FIT here, it's just plain hypocrisy. And that's not to even say I would have any idea HOW to modify a PS3, as I don't own one. I DID want one for the longest time(solely for Wipeout HD), but the combination of Sony possibly not encrypting their(and OUR) most valuable data, and THEN blaming guys like ME for it is, in my mind, simply unacceptable.

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