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Ethan Rex

The Dark Knight Rises - POTENTIAL SPOILERS

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The prison in the movie was only referred to, metaphorically, as a pit. I have no idea why everyone's saying it's a/the Lazarus Pit.

It combines Pena Duro of Banes story, an impossible to escape prison that was eventually escaped, with the Lazarus Pit of Ra's story, a pit that will bring life back to those who enter. And since it is moreso in the al Ghul part of the Nolan story than Banes, the latter is more correct, in my opinion.

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Because it's Nolan's version of the Lazarus Pit. Nolan's Batman universe doesn't contain any elements of the supernatural (like Ra's constant resurrections), so he takes the concept of the Lazarus Pit, which has always been associated with Ra's al Ghul, and spins it into something more real. The movie never calls it the Lazarus Pit, but when you have a knowledge of Batman lore, it makes perfect sense.

This could be applied to the part where Ra's al Ghul "appears" before Bruce as well. It's not a literal resurrection, but a mental I-was-just-beaten-nigh-unto-death hallucination.

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It's thematically inferred to be the Lazarus Pits. Nolan made very sure to reference Ra's' 'immortality' in his hallucinatory speech. Now, in this case, it was referring more to his work and legacy than his actual person, but the reference remains clear. This is true throughout Nolan's representation of Batman as a whole: he tells the story he wants to, and ties in other facets of events, characters and lore in new ways not necessarily identical to the exact representation any given comic had. It was even more clear in this film than the others, as far as I know from my highly limited comic-book knowledge.

Out of curiosity, do comic-book readers usually have the same reaction to new artists and/or writers?

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Well, in point of fact, the "Lazarus Pit" moniker for the prison in the movie would indeed be appropriate because those who are thrown into the pit are basically there to die... both in body and spirit. By Bruce Wayne ascending the pit successfully, he has been resurrected- in body and spirit, and a new lease on life enabling him to face Bane

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The Pit is where Bruce is healed, both physically and spiritually/psychologically. It's also where Ra's al Ghul's immortality is hinted at, both matter-of-factly by Bruce's hallucination and then at Ra's living on through a child. Healing and [through that] enabling Ra's's immortality are key characteristics of a Lazarus Pit, so The Pit struck me pretty quickly as Nolan's interpretation of a Lazarus Pit.

But I made a distinction between Pena Dura and The Pit, since The Pit seems to be in Morocco, while Bane retains a Caribbean accent, which would only make sense if he grew up not in Morocco.

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Yep, that was it. It's actually pretty common for movie trailers to use music from other movie scores, especially when the movie itself hasn't been scored yet. For instance, Two Towers and Return of the King used the theme from Requiem for a Dream.

And I think Tinker, Tailor, Soldier Spy trailer had a track from the X-Men First Class soundtrack.

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DEATH!

...by exile.

I had a vision... what if Eddie Izzard was in the Dark Knight Rises?

Eddie: Death or exile? That's a pretty easy question. Everyone - Anyone could answer that. Death or Exile?

Stryver: Eh... Exile Pleez.

Eddie: Very well! Give him Exile!

Stryver: Oh, thanks very much. Ur very nice

Eddie: You! Death or Exile?

Criminal: Uh, Exile for me, too, please.

Eddie: Very well! Give him Exile, too! We're gonna run out of Exile at this rate. You! Death or Exile?

C. Gordan: Uh, death, please. No, Exile! Exile! Exile, sorry. Sorry...

Eddie: You said death first, uh-uh, death first! Death... by Exile!!!!

C. Gordan: wait wat

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So if that place was in friggin Morocco (presumably, we only know it's not in the US) and Bruce Wayne got back in a matter of hours with no ID, no transportation, no visa, NOTHING, how exactly did he pull that off?

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So if that place was in friggin Morocco (presumably, we only know it's not in the US) and Bruce Wayne got back in a matter of hours with no ID, no transportation, no visa, NOTHING, how exactly did he pull that off?

Such things were both possible and commonplace before 9/11.

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It's thematically inferred to be the Lazarus Pits. Nolan made very sure to reference Ra's' 'immortality' in his hallucinatory speech. Now, in this case, it was referring more to his work and legacy than his actual person, but the reference remains clear. This is true throughout Nolan's representation of Batman as a whole: he tells the story he wants to, and ties in other facets of events, characters and lore in new ways not necessarily identical to the exact representation any given comic had. It was even more clear in this film than the others, as far as I know from my highly limited comic-book knowledge.

Out of curiosity, do comic-book readers usually have the same reaction to new artists and/or writers?

Editorial generally keeps a tight rein on what writers can and cannot redefine in comic books. Batman in particular has been following a pretty consistent line of development for a couple of years now.

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They, as in the filmmakers, or he, as in Bane? Are you really mad at the bad guy for lying to you? He's the bad guy. Of course he lied about him being born in the Lazarus Pit. Everyone thought he was the child from the Lazarus Pit because that's the myth he himself perpetuated.

Are you angry that he, the villain of the story, wasn't honest with you, the audience? That he didn't spoil the misdirection at the very start? Don't be ridiculous.

"They" as in the Filmmaker.

What can I say, other than it felt like a cheap trick.

In contrast, take Nolan's The Prestige, *SPOILERS* which told us the answer to the film's biggest mystery early on, yet we never believe it until we see it. That was awesome, that was clever, that was a genuine surprise.

If this was the only thing in the film that felt cheap, or lazy, or just an abandonment of the commitment to reality (mostly) that the first two films set up, I really wouldn't be complaining.

For example, the film goes to great length to show us Bruce Wayne's debilitating injuries, yet with a fancy knee brace, Batman hasn't lost a step except when it comes to fighting Bane for the first time.

Or, later, after he's imprisoned with a broken back, it just takes a little medieval PT, and a few months of pullups and situps, to bring him back better than ever. And I get it, he had to embrace fear, but fear doesn't put cartilage back between your bones.

And how do 3,000 cops survive underground for months, and then emerge healthy, and ready to fight in clean uniforms? The logistics of feeding 3,000 people for months with a limited food supply in Gotham is exhausting. And Bane's army didn't seem sympathetic to anyone who aided them.

Also, if anything, the first thing an evil mastermind with half a brain would do, would be to exterminate the captive cops, so there'd be no chance of revolt. Just spray some Scarecrow gas down there and be done with it.

I know this is a comic book movie, but the commitment prior was to ground it in reality (again, mostly), and I found it ultimately diminishing to just throw it all away for cheap thrills.

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I think you're trying too hard to equate "morph it to the Hollywood big screen" to "ground it in reality".

There's something about the TDKR that just feels out of step with the previous two.

And I know there's moments that aren't exactly realistic in TDK, like when Batman saves Rachael after the Joker pushes her out the window, by just cradling her as they drop 20 stories, and land on a cab and walk away. Which is maybe possible, but not a risk one would want to take. But those moments are fewer and far between.

On the other hand, TDKR feels like it has 10x more of those bends in reality and logic, and that just became highly dissatisfying.

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For some reason I have a memory of Batman's suit having some sort of force countering device in his boots to break long falls. I have no idea why I remember this because I've watched the films again and didn't notice it mentioned. Checked sources online and there is no mention of it. I must be going mad but it seems vivid in my mind.

Some of TDKR's plot points/scenes did irk me a little bit. But damn I enjoyed the film. Much more than Spiderman.

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He also has a companion cube named Alfred and a Bat Cave he reaches via portal gun

I was going to post the Long Boots video promo, but, yes - this is better.

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There's something about the TDKR that just feels out of step with the previous two.

And I know there's moments that aren't exactly realistic in TDK, like when Batman saves Rachael after the Joker pushes her out the window, by just cradling her as they drop 20 stories, and land on a cab and walk away. Which is maybe possible, but not a risk one would want to take. But those moments are fewer and far between.

On the other hand, TDKR feels like it has 10x more of those bends in reality and logic, and that just became highly dissatisfying.

You're complaining about bends in reality and logic in a movie series about a broke cripple who has access to futuristic weapons, inertia ignoring motorcycles and a super computer in his basement?

The reason he was able to recover in The Pit was because the physician punched his spine back into order.

You say "yet with a fancy knee brace, Batman hasn't lost a step except when it comes to fighting Bane for the first time." I don't think it's at all unrealistic to suggest someone who has access to a flying bat ship also has access to some really nice body equipment.

Also, if anything, the first thing an evil mastermind with half a brain would do, would be to exterminate the captive cops, so there'd be no chance of revolt. Just spray some Scarecrow gas down there and be done with it.

Are you at all suggesting the Joker never had a chance to do something that would have screwed everything? You're talking as if Dark Knight Rises is a sole offender in this category. You should try playing some of the thousands of video games, movies, comic books, books, etc. that also have this kind of problem.

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