Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[Strike911]

It almost seems inexcusable to delay it when the game is most likely almost completely done.

Inexcusable? If it's that "inexcusable" then stick it to the man and don't buy the game?

Not that inexcusable after all? eh?

Well, honestly speaking, as a Game Development major, a game is never really complete. It's passable. The developers 99% of the time end up dropping features towards the end of the development cycle to get the game out on the scheduled time. Those few months that they've delayed the game will allow them to fix things and perhaps add a few features that they may have had to drop... perhaps extras to really flesh out the game. Yes it does look like SSBB is really far in its development cycle, nearly complete, but we don't know what features they have put in the game that aren't working or are buggy.... stuff like that. If they didn't delay it, whatever features they're working on would have to be dropped so you could excuse them. but then you'd be pissed that the game could have had more stuff in it.

Every game developer is racing against their budget and time. It's not inexcusable. They're trying to add stuff... improve the game.

Who knows what the reason is... it could be any number of things... music related? Balancing? Menu options? Levels? Characters (probably not this far into development...).

but we really don't know. the only thing certain is that Sora believes that Smash Bros can be better if they have an extra 2 months. That's a lot of time to polish a game. They say a game is polished in the last 2 months of development. So theoretically, the extra 2 months will add that much more time for the game to fix bugs and hammer out any problems they're having.

So get the game in December that's incomplete, or get it in February that's more complete?

The delay will only make the game better, and more likely than not, will fix little issues like bugs that will piss us off years later.

[Kiyosuki]

Hey did you guys notice Drill Dozer?

She's an assist character that appears in the movie that takes place in the Fire Emblem stage if you pay real close attention.

EDIT:

[I-n-j-i-n]

The thing is, the game was heavily rumored even by Nintendo to be a launch title for the Wii. Then it is put back 6 months. Then a month. Then another 2 months.

I can understand just about every type of delays imaginable (try waiting for StarCraft 2), but I can understand how some people could be miffed. It is basically a year of delays more or less. All from tentative release date to the actual release date to adding months on top of it. Sure the game is going to be great. That is not even the point when people are miffed about delays. People are miffed at the DELAY.

[Lotd2242]

As a software developer, I can affirm Strike's assessment.

Software is never truly finished. Every time you think you've reached an end point, something comes up that you have to fix or something else you forgot to add, etc. It really ends up being a matter of "screw this, it's good enough."

And if you're a perfectionist like me, this gets extremely stressful as your due date comes up. You learn just to say "that'll be version 2" or "that error only happens .5% of the time, so it isn't worth trying to debug." Of course with console games, there's not much of a version 2 short of a sequel.

[I-n-j-i-n]

As a software developer, I can affirm Strike's assessment.

Software is never truly finished. Every time you think you've reached an end point, something comes up that you have to fix or something else you forgot to add, etc. It really ends up being a matter of "screw this, it's good enough."

And if you're a perfectionist like me, this gets extremely stressful as your due date comes up. You learn just to say "that'll be version 2" or "that error only happens .5% of the time, so it isn't worth trying to debug." Of course with console games, there's not much of a version 2 short of a sequel.

Again, that is totally besides the issue about the delay. I mean, if you're going into the actual details and the specificities, that all makes sense. But why even have release dates for something that is ambiguous? I wish they do away with specific release dates for good. Just go with the whole "release in 2008!" instead of teasing gamers with specific dates. It's not just for SSBB. It's for every game where the delays just puts a hamper on everything. I guess it doesn't matter nowadays because there are so many great games otherwise, but a delay is a delay is a delay.

Why it is a far stretch

1. DOA4 and Halo have the simularties of both appearing on XBOX and XBOX360 Master Chief has never nor will ever appear on nintendo

2. Halo isnt exactly very well recieved in Japan

3. Neither is XBOX for that matter

4. That would just be..weird

Tecmo is probably one of the most introverted gaming company out there. And what does Halo not being well received have anything to do with it? Enough with the fanboyism. I was specifically talking about the likelihood of crossovers.

[HideousBeing]

Haha, I can see it now.

Melee Developer: "Shoot man, Fox can *proceeds to describe waveshining someone across FD*.

Other Melee Developer: "Forget it man, it's unimportant. Who's gonna find that out, and we need to get this out soon. Just screw it."

Later, same developers watching match of couple of Fox pros waveshining all over the place. The slowly turn to look at each other, and shrug.

[Strike911]

@ Eulogic

That hell looking level in Fire emblem is a really weird area in the GBA version. I don't know if its in any of the other Fire Emblems. There's like a valley with monsters flying around everywhere and it's all red and firey like that. When I saw it in Brawl, I was like "oooh! That lame part of Fire Emblem GBA looks really sweet in Brawl." Hehehe. ^_~

The thing is, the game was heavily rumored even by Nintendo to be a launch title for the Wii. Then it is put back 6 months. Then a month. Then another 2 months.

I can understand just about every type of delays imaginable (try waiting for StarCraft 2), but I can understand how some people could be miffed. It is basically a year of delays more or less. All from tentative release date to the actual release date to adding months on top of it. Sure the game is going to be great. That is not even the point when people are miffed about delays. People are miffed at the DELAY.

True, though, I always thought Nintendo saying it would be a launch title was kind of silly. I mean, they had no online system really set up yet, and additionally, when they said they started development on Brawl, it would have taken only a little over a year to produce the game on that schedule, which is really ridiculous for such a high profile game like Brawl. That would have been hella rushed, seriously. I can understand the miffed-ness though too. They shouldn't commit to dates early on that are just silly.... although I wonder what they're exact development plans were at the time when they were saying that.

I agree though, its way better to play it conservatively and ambiguously with those dates when you know there's going to be a lot of shuffling going on. Part of me feels like Nintendo realized that "Oh, Wii's are going to sell out this Christmas too, then we can afford for Smash Bros to come out later." Nintendo doesn't really need hot software like Brawl coming out to keep Wii's selling like they are... however, I'll argue that to keep their hardcore audience around they'll really need to get the game out soon, especially with Xbox360's massive library and now that Halo 3 is out... plus the fact that MGS4 is looming on the horizon in March. Strategically, I guess having it come out in February may boost sales shortly after the holidays.

EDIT:

BY THE WAY, where is the video of the Smartbomb item? I'd really like to see that and I can't seem to find it.

Anyone think we'll see one massive update tonight with all the press demo information? Or maybe something new?

[!Nekko!]

Why must nintendo continuously feed me lies!

[Brushfire]

Everyone is looking at this delay in the wrong way. It just means more updates for the official site to keep me in anticipation.

[Lotd2242]

Again, that is totally besides the issue about the delay. I mean, if you're going into the actual details and the specificities, that all makes sense. But why even have release dates for something that is ambiguous? I wish they do away with specific release dates for good. Just go with the whole "release in 2008!" instead of teasing gamers with specific dates. It's not just for SSBB. It's for every game where the delays just puts a hamper on everything. I guess it doesn't matter nowadays because there are so many great games otherwise, but a delay is a delay is a delay.

Well it's a combination of goal-setting, desire for hype/effective advertising, and customer demand. The first thing people do when you say, "Brawl is coming out in 2008" is cry, "when!? January? December? When in December? I need to know when to start checking my pre-order!" But basically, you pick a date you think you can be ready by based upon your manpower/resources and the estimated difficulty of the project.

But shit happens. And software development by its very nature is something extremely difficult to time. I can't tell you how many times I've said, "Oh, that'll take me like an hour" and then it turns into a weeklong headache. This can be everything from an unanticipated series of issues to solve or something as simple as writer's block.

Now if you scale that up to a game being worked on by a whole mess of people, each of whose portions are dependent on somebody else finishing something? My hour of writer's block then rapidly turns into a two week release delay.

Even the guys at IGN were describing crashes in the game and the date was two months away. Hunting down those errors takes lots of time, fixing them takes even more because each fix often breeds a whole new set of errors.

And all that is just the basic stuff, nevermind the more advanced problems. For instance, say you spend a month on a feature that sounded awesome on paper, but once you finish it, it turns out that it was a stupid idea. Now you wasted a month, and everyone else waiting on you wasted a month. Not only that, removing the feature or disabling it can take even more work.

Or maybe there's talk on OCRemix about how Sonic just HAS to be in the game or nobody will buy it. Now you have to figure out how to get Sonic in the game...

And this kind of thing goes on right up until somebody finally says, "put it in the box and ship it already."

So it's not like they set a bullshit date they have no hope of meeting (well most of the time anyway.) They're just making the best guess they can so that the rest of their business activities can work in parallel.

It's also much worse than it ever was because the games are so much more complex, and we demand so much more early information about them so much sooner.

Haha, I can see it now.

Melee Developer: "Shoot man, Fox can *proceeds to describe waveshining someone across FD*.

Other Melee Developer: "Forget it man, it's unimportant. Who's gonna find that out, and we need to get this out soon. Just screw it."

Later, same developers watching match of couple of Fox pros waveshining all over the place. The slowly turn to look at each other, and shrug.

Precisely. That's how exploits are made. The more obvious the error, the more likely the developers knew about it and chose to ignore it.

Hell, if you've ever played an EA game you can tell those folks have just decided to let patching take care of their problems after a point.

[Mastertoku]

I don't know if anyone's spotted these yet, but have a look!

The announcer sounds... less menacing.

And yes, more are on the guy's profile.

[nookster]

That's not all. i hope the stage transformations/going to new places isn't finished yet. It just fades over. Kinda ugly, especially in the fire emblem stage :S

[DuskyFerret]

Hey snapshots, now that is an idea. I can't think of how many times I wished I could take a photo in Melee but couldn't. This is a pretty mad update IMO. I mean all those people complaining about the delay, if these are the kind of things that we get for the extra wait then it's for the better I reckon. Why bring out something too quickly if it can be perfected over a little extra time? This could well be the biggest game ever and so don't rush a masterpiece.

Oh and on an end note:

Now you know what it feels like to be ridden all the time!!!!!!

Maybe if I press harder you'll lay an egg.

Any other caption ideas with any of the pics?

[Antipode]

That's not all. i hope the stage transformations/going to new places isn't finished yet. It just fades over. Kinda ugly, especially in the fire emblem stage :S

I thought the same thing. Hopefully they'll do some work on that in the next four months.

The announcer sounds...less menacing

And less like he's shouting in a bathroom.

[Mastertoku]

So. Theories on the "Blur button"?

[Kiyosuki]

So is anyone here in LA and considering E for Everyone?

[Binjovi]

So. Theories on the "Blur button"?

Video save? Put your pics on an internet screenshot gallery? Use as avatars for Wi-Fi mode? Pixelate the image (har har)? Too many possibilities.

[Mastertoku]

So is anyone here in LA and considering E for Everyone?

I might be able to go if I can convince my superiors that I can afford to miss a rehearsal... but I'm not exactly in their good graces right now...

[I-n-j-i-n]

But shit happens. And software development by its very nature is something extremely difficult to time. I can't tell you how many times I've said, "Oh, that'll take me like an hour" and then it turns into a weeklong headache. This can be everything from an unanticipated series of issues to solve or something as simple as writer's block.

That is why an ambiguous release date may work just as well. The only people who would be miffed are those who stake themselves out on preorders. If a game is finished, it's finished. A lot of games in the past year have only have their release date finalized only a month or two before release. I think that is way more effective and not as misleading/disappointing.

It's also much worse than it ever was because the games are so much more complex, and we demand so much more early information about them so much sooner.

I doubt it is about complexity. The ability to put out an earnest release date or even a gross estimate that doesn't lead into constant delays are not about complexity. Though I think the part of it is how the SSBB development team is trying to add new things constantly and they probably haven't finalized it a long time ago. It just seems to me they're adding things as they go. Especially from reading the blog.

Hell, if you've ever played an EA game you can tell those folks have just decided to let patching take care of their problems after a point.

Except not all EA games are buggy as well as there are a lot of Nintendo, Sega or any other game developers who put in some bugs in there. Mario Kart snaking anyone?

[Paratha]

Oh my, Link isn't sluggish anymore! Yay! I'm looking forward to playing as him.

[Cerrax]

Oh my, Link isn't sluggish anymore! Yay! I'm looking forward to playing as him.

He still runs slow as hell. He couldn't catch Sonic at all. He probably looks faster than he really is. I thought the same thing when Melee came out. But it just turns out EVERYBODY was faster, so Link still turned out to be slow.

Even so, he'll still be my first pick

The slow-mo when the match ends is awesome. Very Soul Calibur-ish. Overall look is polished and nice. It actually seems a bit slower than Melee (at least Samus felt that way. Maybe they made her slower so that Zero SuitSamus can be faster). Stages are meh. I'm hoping the stages become more interactive/destructable like Pit's stage and Shadow Moses. Yoshi's and Fox's seem pretty lame since all they do is have moving backgrounds. Whoopty doo. So did Brinstar Depths in Melee. New stage concepts plz.

[KWarp]

There's no pleasing some people. ;

Samus was always slow.

Changing backgrounds often change the stage foreground/dangers

Blurred button is probably an edit mode.

Metaknight is awesome. <()>

[Ciel]

if those are the only online modes

that will be supremely lame

I want to go onto a server and choose a game to play in like on Gunbound

none of this "can't see their names" crap

I require online rivals

it'll be like playing against AI this way

and without a ranking system...

ugh

what's the point if you can't be a show off

for fun and egoboosting

nameless, faceless opponents won't do

I want to accidentally meet some dude

named Striker786

in rooms

and he'll say "fuk u fagot"

and I'll be like "heh"

and beat him up

and I'll occasionally see this dude in game rooms and have a good laugh as I slaughter him and he speaks his unintelligible american teen dialect

this stuff is part of the essential online experience

don't steal it away Sakurai

use the delay to add this

[KWarp]

Gunbound? More like...

I spend 30 minutes joining dozens of rooms until one doesn't kick me out.

I wait another 10 minutes for an 8th player to join.

Both teams are wasting energy throwing verbal insults at each other.

The player in the boomer is a cash whore.

I'm being double-teamed with nowhere to run.

My teammate steals my kill.

The winners brag how superior they are at pretend cartoon shooting.

COMPETITION SUCKS THE FUN OUT OF THE GAME.

[Citris]

if those are the only online modes

that will be supremely lame

I want to go onto a server and choose a game to play in like on Gunbound

none of this "can't see their names" crap

I require online rivals

it'll be like playing against AI this way

and without a ranking system...

ugh

what's the point if you can't be a show off

for fun and egoboosting

nameless, faceless opponents won't do

I want to accidentally meet some dude

named Striker786

in rooms

and he'll say "fuk u fagot"

and I'll be like "heh"

and beat him up

and I'll occasionally see this dude in game rooms and have a good laugh as I slaughter him and he speaks his unintelligible american teen dialect

this stuff is part of the essential online experience

don't steal it away Sakurai

use the delay to add this

Stop posting like an idiot.