KWarp Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I'll skip the context and get to the point: In the movie industry, composers compose the score, the movie gets released, and they get a steady stream of royalties for a while. In the videogame industry, composers get payed a lump of money and move onto the next project. Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It's in the company's interest to keep the rights of the songs made, especially a theme song, since if they make a sequel, having the rights to something like a theme song would help give the game a certain atmosphere that can build upon the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWarp Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 So it's about anticipating the sequel is it? That's really awful for the creators involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watkinzez Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Few composers keep the rights to their own songs. Yuzo Koshiro is one that does, I believe. Maybe Mitsuda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemophiliac Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 i'm going to say that the composers that have made the music for games have done so as a "work-for-hire". if that doesn't explain it, i'll elaborate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-n-j-i-n Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Maybe because the market isn't big enough or noticeable enough? Also, don't musicians do covers for free at times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliceX Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Video games are harder to distribute than movies. It also depends on the type of contract that was agreed upon to, in terms of the songs being made, licensing rights and such. Movies have more distributors than video games involved, meaning more money is passed around. Of course this doesn't apply to THQ/ACTIVISION/EA movie-to-game adaptions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Because it's work-for-hire, like Chris said. That's the soulless answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishy Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It's in the company's interest to keep the rights of the songs made, especially a theme song, since if they make a sequel, having the rights to something like a theme song would help give the game a certain atmosphere that can build upon the experience. So how come they made such a completely irrelevant soundtrack for FFX-2, does Nobuo have a different sort of deal or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaki-LEGEND.sys Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Nobuo wasn't that involved(if he was at all) in the FFX-2 soundtrack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Odyssey Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I guess I'd better try to make it with movies than with video games then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wingless Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I don't know if this is priviledged information, or if it's entirely accurate, so take it with a grain of salt. At midway, if a project breaks even/ goes platinum, everyone that worked on the project gets a royalty. Royalties start at the tippy-top of production (producers and project leads I believe), then trickle down from there. Royalties are given as a lump-some to central groups, which include UI design and music. So... at least at Midway, the musicians do (unless they are outsourced, and often times they are). So you just got fucking pwn3d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Maybe because the market isn't big enough or noticeable enough? No. The video game industry is bigger than the movie industry. Also, don't musicians do covers for free at times? Not relevant. Because it's work-for-hire, like Chris said. That's the soulless answer. Bingo. A "work for hire" contract for a composer means that once the songs are written and delivered, the composer no longer has ANY claim to them. The copyright isn't just being licensed to another party. It is gone. Legally, they didn't even make the song. You might wonder why anyone would enter into such agreement; typically, it's because such a deal is FAR more profitable. I have seen WFH/Buyout deals priced 10x what their non-exclusive contracts would be. However, it's possible - as with the case of Midway - for there to be an arrangement where the composer does earn money based on units sold, even if it is WFH. Contracts can be flexible. By the way, film composers usually do NOT earn royalties... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar of Justice Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I guess I'd better try to make it with movies than with video games then... Just because you're not earning royalties, does that necessarily imply you aren't going to make enough to survive? Hell, there are plenty of creative jobs where people don't get paid royalties. Just think of all the engineers who design products that sell like crazy and just get their normal wage anyhow. I don't see any reason a musician is more deserving than any other field when it comes to royalties. As a software engineer, if I refuse to work anywhere that won't pay me royalties, I can look forward to being a street bum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy In Rubber Suit Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Isn't a movie composer doing works-for-hire too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It is very possible, yes. As I said, film composers often do not earn royalties. You might earn something off the soundtrack, and MAYBE distribution on DVDs, for example, but otherwise no. Video game industry is where the money is at. $1000 a minute of music for triple A games? Yes please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverCoat Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I wish I got royalties for my music. I've met a few amateur game dev teams before that wanted to pay me based on a sales percentage. They never went anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatdown Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 $1000 a minute of music for triple A games? Yes please. Game music is indeed serious business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emura Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 At the Toronto Independant Games Conference in 2006, Tommy Tallarico actually gave a talk on this very subject. How video game composers are paid depends primarily on how they are employed; the composer is either an employee of the company producing the game and thus is salaried, or they are an independant (individual or business), and work on contract to produce the game's soundtrack and possibly sound effects. The former, where composers are employed by the game company, mirrors the music situation in the early days of film, and pay is generally similar to the way other employees are paid. As The Wingless said, some companies offer bonuses to the employees, composers included, if the game sells over a certain number of units. To me, the more interesting side of game audio development would be the independants. Before starting on the project, the contracting company would detail in the contract how the composer would be payed. Generally this would be a standard payment for his work, but may also include bonuses of $x if the game sells more than n units, additional payments for additional SKUs (ie porting a X-Box 360 game to PS3 would create a second SKU), and may even mention details for a CD release of the game's original soundtrack. In Tallarico's opinion, the independant should negotiate to have all of those things in his contract. Basically, your royalties come down to how well you can negotiate your contract. The thing to keep in mind is that almost always, the studio that owns the game will own the music written for it, and it will say that right in the contract (The same applies to the movie industry). The studio needs to have control over how the music is used, and doesn't want to go to the composer to ask for permission every time they want use the music. If a term for additional SKUs has been included in the contract then the studio is free to use the music in whatever titles they want to without permission, but the composer will still be paid. Keep in mind this post is just a rough paraphrasing of Tallarico's talk, so don't yell at me for inaccuracies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgx Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Tommy's Advent Rising score rocks, btw. And it is mostly performed by a live orchestra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemophiliac Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Basically, your royalties come down to how well you can negotiate your contract. The thing to keep in mind is that almost always, the studio that owns the game will own the music written for it, and it will say that right in the contract (The same applies to the movie industry). The studio needs to have control over how the music is used, and doesn't want to go to the composer to ask for permission every time they want use the music. If a term for additional SKUs has been included in the contract then the studio is free to use the music in whatever titles they want to without permission, but the composer will still be paid. well also it depends on how much clout you have. if you're a nobody you're probably not going to be able to negotiate much, if at all about what you're getting. if you have a few titles under you belt, you may have a little clout. it really is all depending on where you stand there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWarp Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Fantastic answers guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.