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Metroid: Other M

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I'm sorry for not realizing that you spoke for everyone else' opinion, Mutericator. You're absolutely right and I apologize.

Heaven forbid that there's enough evidence all around the grapevine to show that my point is indeed the case. No. If Mutericator doesn't fall into that category, than nobody else does, and thus my case is bullshit.

Until you cite a source that actually proves the point that YOU brought up, yes, it is bullshit.

Generally, when I hear complaints about games that are still scoring around 80 in reviews that call the game "bad" I get the impression people have never really played a bad game, or at least not in a very long time.

Maybe the complainers don't like the game, which is something I can understand. I try playing a GTA or Halo or Metal Gear Solid and I don't like it. I don't really have the gall to call them bad games, though. Nor do I try to argue with people regarding why I don't like them.

Maybe it's different with a Nintendo franchise though, since almost everyone invariably plays those around here. But I think people should try playing some ACTUAL bad games to gain some perspective on the difference between a game like Other M and a game like, say, Far Cry Vengeance.

I hate to say it, but I expect there was a degree of trying to avoid the "Twilight Princess 8.8" scenario happening again. The "game from the future" bit on Kotaku felt particularly like bullshit.

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Heaven forbid that there's enough evidence all around the grapevine to show that my point is indeed the case. No. If Mutericator doesn't fall into that category, than nobody else does, and thus my case is bullshit.

baselessassumptionbaselessassumptionbaselessassumption

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What? What are you talking about? I was incredibly excited for a Team Ninja Metroid game, and remained pumped until the hands-on articles started coming out in February or so, which pointed out how story-heavy the game was. It just got worse and worse the more I learned, and the game itself was just as bad as I was worried it would be.

Don't make shit up.

Separate story from gameplay -- story is done poorly (I'm with Bleck some of the overall concept isn't terrible, it's just executed awkwardly). Gameplay is pretty good, though nothing compared to Super or Prime, of course.

That's part of the problem I think. For a _game_ this has pretty good gameplay. For a _Metroid_ game it's near the bottom of the barrel...but still leaps and bounds better than most other titles.

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Exactly. The gameplay is fine. It's fast paced and easy to use. The ability to dodge attacks and perform finishers add some excitement, but of course, the novelty wears off after a bit. I just didn't like having to go into first person mode just to be able to fire missiles.

The story wasn't the worst thing I've seen, but I agree it was awkward at times. The part with Ridley was fine, but I think it was just done way over the top.

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Separate story from gameplay -- story is done poorly (I'm with Bleck some of the overall concept isn't terrible, it's just executed awkwardly). Gameplay is pretty good, though nothing compared to Super or Prime, of course.

That's part of the problem I think. For a _game_ this has pretty good gameplay. For a _Metroid_ game it's near the bottom of the barrel...but still leaps and bounds better than most other titles.

I can definitely agree with this, I've been thinking the same thing for a while now. This would have been average at best for a normal game, but for a Metroid game with an already-established formula, it's pretty terrible.

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Why the hell did they make the end-game powerups so damn hard to get to? Sheesh. I'm trying to go for 100% and there's stuff that I can't figure out how to access.

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What does everyone think about the ability to essentially "watch" the game by stringing all the cutscenes together? Has any other game done this?

I think that's a really cool concept. There are some inherent problems such as game length vs. reasonable movie time, but I think that its a cool idea. For instance, you could have someone who would never sit down and play the game still enjoy it by having them watch it after you are done.

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Guys

as someone who sucks at video games, who never got 100% items in any Metroid game without guides,

How are you guys having so much trouble with these ones? The only one I was stuck on for a really long time was that one under the extendable bridge that breaks so you can learn the space jump, but I still didn't need a guide for that either. I'm sorry

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So, first Malaki supports Sakamoto's egotism, and now he makes up "facts" he "heard from the grapevine" and thinks people will believe him? Come on homey, don't be trippin!

I admit that I had to look at a guide to find the missile that was inside of the hologram room by the Metroid queen. How was I supposed to know that you could go inside it? I blame the camera angle.

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What does everyone think about the ability to essentially "watch" the game by stringing all the cutscenes together? Has any other game done this?

I think that's a really cool concept. There are some inherent problems such as game length vs. reasonable movie time, but I think that its a cool idea. For instance, you could have someone who would never sit down and play the game still enjoy it by having them watch it after you are done.

The Xenosaga games did this to quite an extent. I actually own a dvd of purely Xenosaga 1 cutscenes and the darn thing plays like a movie.

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I got everything but one without help. Yes the hologram screen thing was silly, but equally silly was the wall passage way earlier on, the missile tank one that's behind the yellow door - in the landing bay! Had to have my brother point out which room I could get to it from.

As for making a movie out of the game stringing cutscenes and gameplay together, it's a cool idea but it necessitates a story you enjoy watching. Monkey Island - yes. Zelda - sure. Metroid... not with the cutscenes, no.

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So, first Malaki supports Sakamoto's egotism, and now he makes up "facts" he "heard from the grapevine" and thinks people will believe him? Come on homey, don't be trippin!

Ok I get it now. Let's all collectively play dumb. Nobody was down on Metroid Other M since last year when it was announced. The entirety of the internet was ablaze with nothing but anticipation and excitement until their fragile hopes were crushed by that damned Sakamoto when they played the game.

Am I doing this right?

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Ok I get it now. Let's all collectively play dumb. Nobody was down on Metroid Other M since last year when it was announced. The entirety of the internet was ablaze with nothing but anticipation and excitement until their fragile hopes were crushed by that damned Sakamoto when they played the game.

Am I doing this right?

I've never seen a better example of missing the point.

Sarcasm aside, you're ignoring that we aren't talking for a (made-up) group, we're talking as individuals who disagree with your baseless assumption. I was hyped for Other M, and I was disappointed terribly with it. Beyond that I can only tell you what people here in the OCR thread have said, but I make no attempt to speak for them or any other group of people the rest of us have never seen. You're doing the opposite, and projecting your feelings onto many with no cause to do so.

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What does everyone think about the ability to essentially "watch" the game by stringing all the cutscenes together? Has any other game done this?

What about MGS3, specifically the Existence disc? As far as I know it's the same thing as Other M.

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The "Sakamoto-isms" always bugged me for the longest time.

Even though many sites, including MDB were hyped. Other M did feel like a let down.

Although I haven't played OM, just seeing how far they wanted to push.

It wasn't what everyone hoped for. Trying to influence "cinematic", with "drama". It doesn't always work for every series.

*Samus dialog as I've read and seen some cutscenes just didn't feel right.

While its great she finally has a voice, it feels overkill.

**and music? its gone? only during fights, no overtone. (sigh)

Metroid always contains music whatever part of the adventure you pursue.

And forgive me for saying this, but I never liked the wii remote.

*it doesn't work

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I've started thinking about the imprortance of knowing the character's backstory... and I realized it's completely irrelevant to the game, even when it ties into the story.

Monkey Island introduces Guybrush with his memorable line "I wanna be a pirate". That's all we need to know. Do we need to hear about how his family is poor, or how he left an orphanage, or is the runaway son of a wealthy merchant, or has amnesia, or anything? No. Master Chief, and what Spartans are? Not really. Link's backstory? Nope. Sonic's? Nope. Mega Man? Not really.

Might just be that my gaming has been rather limited, but I'm having trouble coming up with a character whose backstory is actually relevant to the game. Sure, Super Metroid takes on a different character when you think of it as Samus returning to a pirate-infested former home of hers (the whole series gets more depth when you think of the deadly Metroids as part of the Chozo legacy she also is part of), but it doesn't change the game, and heavy-handedly forcing it into the game would be stupid.

Much like it was in MOM.

How much backstory do you guys think we need to know to appreciate the depth of a game's story, and how much is too much?

(not a question of how the story should be executed, btw)

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How much backstory do you guys think we need to know to appreciate the depth of a game's story, and how much is too much?

(not a question of how the story should be executed, btw)

I've always thought that Metroid Prime did this very well. There's a _lot_ of story there, but if you don't want to deal with it, just don't scan everything. Prime also leaves enough gaps to allow our imaginations to fill in the blanks -- equally important.

Morrowind is the king of this idea. Not a big fan of long, epic stories? Stay out of the library. Like a lot of narration and background? There's 2,000 pages to read.

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I've started thinking about the imprortance of knowing the character's backstory... and I realized it's completely irrelevant to the game, even when it ties into the story.

Monkey Island introduces Guybrush with his memorable line "I wanna be a pirate". That's all we need to know. Do we need to hear about how his family is poor, or how he left an orphanage, or is the runaway son of a wealthy merchant, or has amnesia, or anything? No. Master Chief, and what Spartans are? Not really. Link's backstory? Nope. Sonic's? Nope. Mega Man? Not really.

Might just be that my gaming has been rather limited, but I'm having trouble coming up with a character whose backstory is actually relevant to the game. Sure, Super Metroid takes on a different character when you think of it as Samus returning to a pirate-infested former home of hers (the whole series gets more depth when you think of the deadly Metroids as part of the Chozo legacy she also is part of), but it doesn't change the game, and heavy-handedly forcing it into the game would be stupid.

Much like it was in MOM.

How much backstory do you guys think we need to know to appreciate the depth of a game's story, and how much is too much?

(not a question of how the story should be executed, btw)

None, none whatsoever. I've always stood by the belief that a good story can help a good game become awesome, but that it can't save a bad game and that a bad story can drag down an awesome game into merely good, and a good or decent one to bad (see: Other M).

Games like Metal Gear Solid, where the story gets so in-depth and ridiculous that it's borderline impossible to play without getting involved in the story, are the antithesis of this. I'm not a particularly big fan of them, but I can't refute that they're good games and good (if confusing and over-the-top) stories.

Games like Mario, however, prove my point - for a game to remain a game, it should have gameplay as its first and (almost) only priority. IF the player needs an excuse to play the game, then, "go rescue the princess" works fine, nothing more is needed (see: Mario, Castle Crashers, Link to the Past's intro). It's when directors and producers want to start integrating story and want to start telling some story they cooked up that things get complicated.

Again, don't get me wrong - there are some REALLY good game storylines and plots out there (Okami, Majora's Mask), it's just that I feel a lot of them are either full of shit (Final Fantasy 7+) or that they really shouldn't be adapted to a game in the first place (movie-to-game transitions).

So what's the happy medium? It's already been mentioned: the Metroid Prime approach, also used by Deus Ex, Morrowind, and Arkham Asylum to great success. Simply keep the backstory and story there, but don't force it on the player. Make the player seek it out. It gives the player a reward for exploring and taking risks to gain new information, and players who don't want that info are free to skip right by it, without hampering their gameplay experience whatsoever.

Other M could have done it - Samus already has an established Scan Visor, used to pull out relevant (or irrelevant) info and trivia from all kinds of terminals, landmarks, and enemies. They already had first-person mode, one button press could have switched you over... but instead, we got in-your-face cutscenes that are unskippable until you finish the game once.

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I've never seen a better example of missing the point.

Sarcasm aside, you're ignoring that we aren't talking for a (made-up) group, we're talking as individuals who disagree with your baseless assumption. I was hyped for Other M, and I was disappointed terribly with it. Beyond that I can only tell you what people here in the OCR thread have said, but I make no attempt to speak for them or any other group of people the rest of us have never seen. You're doing the opposite, and projecting your feelings onto many with no cause to do so.

But that's the point: I wasn't talking about you or anyone else posting in this thread thus far. You(and a few others) erroneously attributed what I said as being against you, when in fact I said most of the internet(and a little bit of evidence here from more than a year ago). I can't give you evidence from here because it's been blasted off into the aether, and if I were to give you evidence from elsewhere, I'd have to quote every message board online that discusses video games.

If you feel like you don't belong in the group I mentioned, were excited about the game and was promptly let down, well it sucks that you didn't enjoy it, but then by all means excuse yourself from the "most" category.

I was operating under the assumption that Thalzon was checking out other places and reviews other than OCR(which is for the most part the most level-headed online spot I know), and that he should be wary that as always, there's that vocal group that denounces everything everywhere without giving it the time of day.

Maybe it was the proximity of my post, but I sure wasn't going after anyone in this thread with that statement, so I apologize if it sounded like that was the case.

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Have we all just experienced a successful discussion on the OCR boards without the conversation degenerating into rampant fanboyism / hatred?

Outrageous. And awesome -- thread of the month :P

the middle part of the thread was pretty ridiculous. if you thought other m sucked, you were a hardcore metroid fan who hates stories and using your head. and if you liked the ridley scene you're just plain dumb.

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the middle part of the thread was pretty ridiculous. if you thought other m sucked, you were a hardcore metroid fan who hates stories and using your head. and if you liked the ridley scene you're just plain dumb.

You just saved so much time for so many people stumbling on this thread.

Not sarcasm.

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But that's the point: I wasn't talking about you or anyone else posting in this thread thus far. You(and a few others) erroneously attributed what I said as being against you, when in fact I said most of the internet(and a little bit of evidence here from more than a year ago). I can't give you evidence from here because it's been blasted off into the aether, and if I were to give you evidence from elsewhere, I'd have to quote every message board online that discusses video games.

If you feel like you don't belong in the group I mentioned, were excited about the game and was promptly let down, well it sucks that you didn't enjoy it, but then by all means excuse yourself from the "most" category.

I was operating under the assumption that Thalzon was checking out other places and reviews other than OCR(which is for the most part the most level-headed online spot I know), and that he should be wary that as always, there's that vocal group that denounces everything everywhere without giving it the time of day.

Maybe it was the proximity of my post, but I sure wasn't going after anyone in this thread with that statement, so I apologize if it sounded like that was the case.

Interesting. I have to admit, I thought you were trying to speak on behalf of the internet as a whole, when what you saw was only on the corners you visit; I noticed something of an opposite reaction from my corners, where hype for Other M was pretty much through the roof. I accept your apology, and hope you will accept my apology for an overzealous reaction.

the middle part of the thread was pretty ridiculous. if you thought other m sucked, you were a hardcore metroid fan who hates stories and using your head. and if you liked the ridley scene you're just plain dumb.

Au contraire. I don't by any means hate stories, I just hate bad ones that are forced on you like this one. And the Ridley scene is, at best, out of character even for the version of Samus portrayed in Other M.

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