Xbox One

[psychowolf]

As I said before, what we're being told is that game consoles are for nerds, entertainment systems (aka closed off PCs)are cool things.

Then consider me a fffing nerd >:I

[Crowbar Man]

Firstly, do I have to really explain the differences between a console and a PC?

Second of all, do I have to explain the differences between Steam prices and XBL/PSN prices?

Thirdly, I'll have to test offline mode tonight, but last time i used it it worked just fine. You may have to enable it BEFORE you go offline though

Fourth (most important): There is the fact you can get games from ANY place on a PC, GOG has no DRM etc. You can only get games for Xbox One / PS4 through their DRM system.

Steam is a choice for PC. A pretty good choice, but not the only one.

PSN/XBL aren't choices. They are a requirement to use the consoles. Heck we dont know HOW Much will be disabled in the 24 hour period, you may not even be able to use your BD/DVD for all we know. (Hopefully that isn't the case). You sure as heck can use your non-steam applications/games on a PC. Steam isn't a gatekeeper to the entire system by any means.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Cash]

I'm telling you exactly what happened. I moved my computer, plugged it in, no internet. Steam refused to do anything, including Offline Mode, because there was no connection. I'm not making this up. I literally could not play ANY games on Steam including ones like FTL, nor could I access Offline mode.

Just google "Offline mode doesn't work unless online" or similar, plenty of people have had the same issue.

Weird. Anytime I log in when my internet goes out, Steam asks me if I want to continue in offline mode. Most of my single player games work.

I believe you, I was just pointing out that Steam is supposed run offline.

[Garrett Williamson]

You simply can't believe that playing a sports game, where you control a full team, is the same than playing the real sport where you only control yourself (and limited by your talent ).

The experiences of actually playing the sport and playing sports games are not similar at all, that's a very weird thing to say.

What if I said that a sports game is just naturally pointless even if it is different then actually playing it in reality?

*add lol here to keep from being destroyed by rants of hatred*

[psychowolf]

perhaps zircon this might help with future situations like that:

http://www.howtogeek.com/117424/how-to-make-steams-offline-mode-work/

[Ramaniscence]

I'm telling you exactly what happened. I moved my computer, plugged it in, no internet. Steam refused to do anything, including Offline Mode, because there was no connection. I'm not making this up. I literally could not play ANY games on Steam including ones like FTL, nor could I access Offline mode.

Just google "Offline mode doesn't work unless online" or similar, plenty of people have had the same issue.

http://kotaku.com/you-will-be-able-to-trade-xbox-one-games-online-micros-509140825

Again how is this any different than Steam, which we are all quite used to...?

I had a similar issue with Steam. I couldn't open it AT ALL without being online. I think it was checking for an update and aborting immediately because it couldn't ping, or maybe I had to set it to offline mode manually when I HAD Internet. I don't know but I distinctly remember this because I couldn't play WoW so I wanted to play an offline game and couldn't

[Crowbar Man]

Sounds like its problematic rather than an impossibility. Point stands, there is an option for offline on Steam, it is not an always on DRM

[Brandon Strader]

I had a similar issue with Steam. I couldn't open it AT ALL without being online. I think it was checking for an update and aborting immediately because it couldn't ping, or maybe I had to set it to offline mode manually when I HAD Internet. I don't know but I distinctly remember this because I couldn't play WoW so I wanted to play an offline game and couldn't

I've had an issue with steam where I was online, and it said it couldn't find the connection... so I say start in offline mode.. it restarts, opens up, but there are no games in my library. It's empty.

It works fine on this desktop computer, just had that problem on the laptop. No idea. It worked last time I tried it though. But the weird thing is, it did this even when I had a good internet connection.

[The Derrit]

so zircon what you're missing here is that steam is a *free service* that people can use *or choose not to use* because you can still buy games at a store in a box and install them separately.

xbox one is a *very not free service* that people *essentially must buy if they want to play xbox exclusives* and there are *no other options or workarounds* because xbox has to have an internet connection. because fuck everyone who doesn't have an internet connection.

people who don't have internet connections don't use steam. people who don't have internet connections...

CAN'T USE XBOX ONE.

don't and can't are really, really, really different.

[jnWake]

What if I said that a sports game is just naturally pointless even if it is different then actually playing it in reality?

*add lol here to keep from being destroyed by rants of hatred*

I guess that's your opinion. I've had a lot of fun playing FIFA in my life

[Brandon Strader]

so zircon what you're missing here is that steam is a *free service* that people can use *or choose not to use* because you can still buy games at a store in a box and install them separately.

Not always the case. Some games you buy and have to be activated through Steam.

xbox one is a *very not free service* that people *essentially must buy if they want to play xbox exclusives* and there are *no other options or workarounds* because xbox has to have an internet connection. because fuck everyone who doesn't have an internet connection.

people who don't have internet connections don't use steam. people who don't have internet connections...

CAN'T USE XBOX ONE.

don't and can't are really, really, really different.

From what I heard this is going to work exactly the same as Steam. You connect once, then you work in Offline mode for a while. Or you don't, as earlier Steam stories have shown.

[Garrett Williamson]

I think I'll send an email to Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony asking for a game console that will be about the games. Maybe I'll request cartridges too and challenge Microsoft and Sony.

Also, maybe I should remind them that a game console is called a game console because it plays games, not Blu-Ray and Internet Explorer.

They are trying to attract normal people to buy their game console. That's not what a game console is supposed to be. It's supposed to be a GAME CONSOLE, and it's supposed to play and ONLY play GAMES. A game console is meant for a gamer, not for a 57 year old hairy fat man and his dog, unless he plays video games.

So let's stop trying to use motion in our games, let's stop throwing in the internet, let's stop putting in movies and TV on the game console, and let's make a game console again.

I must admit, the features on the new Xbox One are pretty neat, though.

[Crowbar Man]

From what I heard this is going to work exactly the same as Steam. You connect once, then you work in Offline mode for a while. Or you don't, as earlier Steam stories have shown.

There is no offline mode for the Xbox One, so you heard wrong! Xbox One requires you to be online, it just has about a 24 hour tolerance before it refuses to work.

Steam's offline mode working or not is a glitch/issue. Its intended function is to allow you to play games offline.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[zircon]

people who don't have internet connections don't use steam. people who don't have internet connections... CAN'T USE XBOX ONE.

Yeah, I get that, but I'm saying that the overwhelming majority of people DO have internet connections, broadband ones at that. Again I feel like there is a big difference between always-on and "check in daily". I would wager that the majority of people who would buy an Xbox One are the kind of people who would be using it online frequently (after all, Xbox Live was/is one of the strongest selling points of the 360 for most).

Do I PREFER that as a consumer? No, obviously, it's not a decision made for my benefit but for the benefit of the hardware manufacturer, developers, publishers, etc. which have their own needs and requirements. Just saying that it's not a death knell or anything of the sort.

They are trying to attract normal people to buy their game console. That's not what a game console is supposed to be. It's supposed to be a GAME CONSOLE, and it's supposed to play and ONLY play GAMES. A game console is meant for a gamer, not for a 57 year old hairy fat man and his dog, unless he plays video games.

This is the kind of old-and-busted mindset I was talking about. The era of a game console being a dedicated box that plays games and does nothing else is over. The market as a whole does not universally want that. Microsoft, Sony and to a lesser extent Nintendo would not spend time and money incorporating applications like Netflix, video stores, browsers, etc. if people did not use them. The selling point of consoles is to have an all-in-one living room device that lets you play games AND listen to music AND watch movies AND _____ as opposed to having a game console, and a blu-ray player, and a CD player, and a Netflix box, etc.

[Garrett Williamson]

This is the kind of old-and-busted mindset I was talking about. The era of a game console being a dedicated box that plays games and does nothing else is over. The market as a whole does not universally want that. Microsoft, Sony and to a lesser extent Nintendo would not spend time and money incorporating applications like Netflix, video stores, browsers, etc. if people did not use them. The selling point of consoles is to have an all-in-one living room device that lets you play games AND listen to music AND watch movies AND _____ as opposed to having a game console, and a blu-ray player, and a CD player, and a Netflix box, etc.

I'm just one of those people who doesn't give a crap for anything but the video game. That's why I buy a game console. For video games. Not for Netflix or Blu-Ray or whatever. And that's why I don't have a Wii U. Because I wanna play Mario and Zelda. Not "draw on your tiny game screen" thing. I sketch. But I'd much rather do that on my computer or on my art desk, not on a game console which was meant to play games.

Again, the new feats on One look really cool, though.

[The Coop]

In case anyone missed the Xbox Reveal, here's a nice succinct

.

I get the feeling they're really pumped about Dog of Sports TV.

[Melbu Frahma]

Yeah, lack of BC + used games maybe costing extra money to activate has me turned off. I'm frugal by nature, and charging customers for buying used games in any way, shape or form is too anti-consumerist for my liking.

Plus, I want my systems to be able to pick up the slack for my older systems when they eventually bite the dust, because no matter how well you take care of it, your Game Boy and your PS1 and your N64 will not operate forever, unless you have a way to manufacture the parts in your own basement. They simply won't - fact of life.

No. The next game system I'll buy, if I do buy another one, will be a PS2. Or I'll just get a tower PC for gaming, seeing as how 90% of my gaming is done on Steam these days.

[Crowbar Man]

I don't mind if a console has lots of extra bells and whistles added to it, that is fine. I wont complain about extra things it can do

However the most important thing for consoles used to be being able to just buy a game (even used!) popping it in and just enjoying, and you could do this even if you didn't have internet at home (or heck in a certain part of your house)

Seems those days of simplicity are gone and we are looking at set top boxes (and honestly, almost PCs at this point) with crazy DRM schemes attached to them instead of gaming consoles. A very small section of the population doesn't even have internet, so they simply wont be able to play these new consoles and that's ridiculous.

Consoles were once a place where crappy DRM didn't effect you, it was all kinda behind the scenes. Now its THE ENTIRE SYSTEM.

I am thankful at least there is a 24 hour grace period (if that is accurate) but at the same time, why should we have to deal with it at all?

There isn't any benefits to the customer really. The 360 could basically do everything the XBO could do without the new DRM added. The only thing XBO can do that the 360 couldn't is play a game without the disc in the tray (well, unless you bought it digitally, then it could do that too!)

Steam? Tons of benefits. Absolutely tons of benefits. So you can say "Its just like Steam" but its nothing like Steam by any stretch of imagination, and Steam is just an option .

Now BEYOND that DRM Issue:

They sure did completely focus on its nongaming side. As a gamer, all I care about is games... we'll see what they have to show off at E3 I guess?

Controller:

Force feedback in the triggers is interesting, and I welcome the improved design, but I'm surprised to see no gyros at all in the controller? I mean, its gimmicky usually but you come to expect motion built into the controller these days. Guess the Kinect 2 is their answer to that but meh. Wasn't a fan of Kinect. Maybe Kinect 2 will change that

Edited May 22, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[DarkeSword]

I'm just one of those people who doesn't give a crap for anything but the video game. That's why I buy a game console. For video games. Not for Netflix or Blu-Ray or whatever. And that's why I don't have a Wii U. Because I wanna play Mario and Zelda. Not "draw on your tiny game screen" thing. I sketch. But I'd much rather do that on my computer or on my art desk, not on a game console which was meant to play games.

Wii U has Super Mario U on it. It also has Monster Hunter and Nintendo Land. These aren't sketching art games. They are actual games that you play on the TV in high resolution. I don't understand why you're complaining about the Wii U not being a games system. Nintendo historically focuses their hardware on gaming.

[ocre]

Yeah, that pesky drawing tablet controller (that's actually pretty traditional otherwise) getting in the way of games. Dang it all!

Edited May 22, 2013 by ocre

[The Damned]

ocre, stop posting. Your reckless use of evidence and facts isn't welcome here!

[BardicKnowledge]

Zircon:

I think you vastly overestimate the penetration of broadband Internet. Your high % does not take into account what speed of "broadband" people have, for instance -- a relatively low percentage of the US has speeds of 15 Mbps or higher. Visit the Midwest sometime (and not the Twin Cities etc. where OA and I are, but the rural, farm communities that make up a majority of the space here) and you'll discover lots of houses that can barely get a 3 Mbps DSL connection -- cabled broadband is not even planned for many of the places in Iowa and Nebraska, and I imagine the rest of the Midwest is similar.

Your analogy that "Steam works this way and we don't care" falls flat because people who game on PCs are generally wiling to tinker to make things function, including their Internet settings. People buy consoles because they _work_. Moms in farming communities who make purchasing decisions want to buy one device that plays Blu-ray movies and games, and they want it to work with zero further input from them, including hooking the thing up to the Internet.

As of 2010, only 54% of Wii owners, 73% of 360 owners, and 78% of PS3 owners hooked their consoles up to the Internet. This move isolates 15-20% of the total market.

[Modus]

From experience, actually playing a sport is a million times more fun, but games like MLB The Show have done things like add RPG elements and allow you to raise a character from the minors to the majors

Also "just go do it"? So just go play baseball or soccer as a 23 year old fulltime student when there are no leagues around? Video games empower people to step into the role of someone who is actually good enough to play the sport at a higher level.

There's arguments against sports titles, like how their set rules leave little to no room for gameplay innovation, or how they try to simulate the real world too closely when video games allow developers to improve upon reality, but "just go do it" doesn't hold up well for me.

[EC2151]

As I said before, what we're being told is that game consoles are for nerds, entertainment systems (aka closed off PCs)are cool things.

See, the Wii was for cool people. It was the best and most brilliant marketing we saw in the last three generations (counting this one). It was a console about playing games. And it was pretty darn successful at it too, until Nintendo abandoned that approach, and it became the Netflix box.

To the "all-in-one box" arguments -

These companies can't really try to compete. If they try to be multi-media devices, some company like Apple is just going to come in and wipe the floor with them with the iTV or something like that. The real competition from apple is not the rise in mobile games on phones, it's about the media capabilities of the Apple products. That's why the Wii and DS were able to succeed so well, in that they completely side-stepped the coming struggle with Apple, and focused on gaming.

Any console that tries to do otherwise, in this economic climate, is going to fizzle out. To say otherwise is just not seeing the macro-economic picture.

Edited May 22, 2013 by EC2151

[Toadofsky]

See, the Wii was for cool people. It was the best and most brilliant marketing we saw in the last three generations (counting this one). It was a console about playing games. And it was pretty darn successful at it too, until Nintendo abandoned that approach, and it became the Netflix box.

why Nintendo abandoned that approach still is a mystery to me.