Liontamer

OverClocked ReMix Design ?'s and Issues

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ooh I like the new images on the drop-down tabs.

Thanks; spent quite a bit of time this weekend upgrading the menu code and adding icons. You can also now access some systems directly, browsing is grouped by object type, and the about section has extra links, incl. multilingual content.

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these menu icons are quite nifty :nicework:

though, the menus now appear to have some kind of evaluation message on mouseover.

I've got a support ticket in with milonic, should be fixed in the next couple days.

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Let's compare OCR to selections from Free Culture's manifesto which I posted above:

The mission of the Free Culture movement is to build a bottom-up, participatory structure to society and culture, rather than a top-down, closed, proprietary structure. Through the democratizing power of digital technology and the Internet, we can place the tools of creation and distribution, communication and collaboration, teaching and learning into the hands of the common person — and with a truly active, connected, informed citizenry, injustice and oppression will slowly but surely vanish from the earth.

I don't know about injustice and oppression, but otherwise OCR sure as hell sounds like a site which follows these ideals. Anyone can come here, get involved and potentially get a mix posted. And this isn't just any site. It's a (perhaps the) paradigmatic example of a fan's project expanding to an extent where it's recognized by and even influences the industry. The great equalizing power of the Internet has given fans a voice which the higher-ups actually listen to.

The freedom to build upon the past is necessary for creativity and innovation to thrive. We will use and promote our cultural heritage in the public domain. We will make, share, adapt, and promote open content. We will listen to free music, look at free art, watch free film, and read free books. All the while, we will contribute, discuss, annotate, critique, improve, improvise, remix, mutate, and add yet more ingredients into the free culture soup.

Obvious point bolded for convenience. But the rest is still accurate too. We're intelligent young individuals who came to this site around a common theme, but we talk about all sorts of other things here as well. We can make our opinions known, post Youtube videos, and all sorts of other things which could become known to the populace at large.

We will help everyone understand the value of our cultural wealth, promoting free software and the open-source model. We will resist repressive legislation which threatens our civil liberties and stifles innovation. We will oppose hardware-level monitoring devices that will prevent users from having control of their own machines and their own data.

Free software and anti-DRM FTW.

As far as what the two organizations could actually do together, I didn't have much in mind specifically. An official affiliation would be nice for starters. But actively promoting the Free Culture ideals would be cool. People who frequent Free Culture will start to come here, and people can post mixes there. Free Culture is trying to work through grassroots movements, so exposing the largely young OCR clientele to these happenings may inspire them. All sorts of ideas like that. But all I was trying to do with that post was to get people to understand how much these two organizations actually have in common.

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Hey djp, may i suggest this site be added to the chiptune links? Its got more soundtracks then Zophar, with some rarer titles present. I know some of them are preliminary, but partial coverage is better then none.

http://www.hcs64.com/usf/

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<Nicholas> i cannot find "a flash of memory" on the earthbound ost

<Nicholas> where is the song for this remix from?

<Nicholas> http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01234/

<AnotherSoundscape> might be a track on the chiptune but not on the OST

<AnotherSoundscape> a track not used while playing the game but still IN the game

<Ferret> I think it's a mislabel.

<Nicholas> im with ferret on this one

<Nicholas> gonna ask larry later

<Nicholas> anyways

<Nicholas> i just wanted to hear the source so i could recognize it

<Arrowned> The SPC set's already linked on the remix page; you could just download it

<Nicholas> i did

<Nicholas> not

<Nicholas> there

<Arrowned> Really?

<Arrowned> Funky

<Nicholas> ja

<Nicholas> which is why teh question was brought up in the first place

<Nicholas> i found it odd

<Arrowned> Ah, I see

<Arrowned> I got my SPC set from a different source

<Nicholas> where?

<Nicholas> snes music?

<Nicholas> let me try theirs

<Arrowned> Wait

<Arrowned> It's in the OCR set

<Nicholas> what

<Arrowned> Under a different name

<Nicholas> oooooooh

<Arrowned> "Your Sanctuary 2" the OCR set calls it

<Nicholas> gotcha

<Arrowned> "A Flash of Memory" is its OST title though

<Nicholas> well now it makes more sense

<Nicholas> odd for ocr to have a mislabled track in THEIR spc that they link to

<Arrowned> It looks like NONE of the tracks in that spc set use ost names.

<Arrowned> They're all named by game location

The point of me posting that chatlog was just to say that it is kind of odd to have your own SPC show different song names for a source tune when comparing to the name of the source tune that is on the song.

Sure enough, Ferret was right about the source tune being mislabeled. I know that not all the games are like this, but it is kind of annoying not being able to match the name of the source tune to the SPC file that is hosted on this site (remember, I said KIND OF).

Maybe we should have that song identification thread Larry made last where we identified the official source tune name for sources that were remixed recreated? We could have it where we could identify source tunes AND find mixes *or in this case the source files that were downloadable on this site* with mislabeled source tunes and get them with the right name.

Thoughts?

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Indeed.

Sidenote: the implementation of reviews on remix detail pages has changed somewhat; I'm using javascript to recreate some of the tabs on mix detail pages on the review threads, so you can bounce back and fourth between the two. The eventual plan is to move to actual links for downloads, lyrics, etc., i.e. "www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01000/download/", and at that point the forum tabs could also have more than just "main"... the contextual tabs (lyrics, at the moment) would be a little problematic... also, the judges decision forum will have these links and identify under the "reviews" tab, which is still kinda accurate, though a preferable solution may present itself.

If you've got no idea what I just said, that's cool, but if you do, let me know what you think...

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Let's compare OCR to selections from Free Culture's manifesto which I posted above:

The mission of the Free Culture movement is to build a bottom-up, participatory structure to society and culture, rather than a top-down, closed, proprietary structure. Through the democratizing power of digital technology and the Internet, we can place the tools of creation and distribution, communication and collaboration, teaching and learning into the hands of the common person — and with a truly active, connected, informed citizenry, injustice and oppression will slowly but surely vanish from the earth.

I don't know about injustice and oppression, but otherwise OCR sure as hell sounds like a site which follows these ideals. Anyone can come here, get involved and potentially get a mix posted. And this isn't just any site. It's a (perhaps the) paradigmatic example of a fan's project expanding to an extent where it's recognized by and even influences the industry. The great equalizing power of the Internet has given fans a voice which the higher-ups actually listen to.

If OCR was a bottom-up democratic structure, UnMod would still exist, there would be fewer bans, and no judges or moderators. OCR is more of an oligarchy. It has lasted as long as it has because the willingness-to-poop-on-people/willingness-to-do-lots-of-work-for-free ratio of the people in the oligarchy is sufficiently low.

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If OCR was a bottom-up democratic structure, UnMod would still exist, there would be fewer bans, and no judges or moderators. OCR is more of an oligarchy. It has lasted as long as it has because the willingness-to-poop-on-people/willingness-to-do-lots-of-work-for-free ratio of the people in the oligarchy is sufficiently low.

Technically, it's actually a dictatorship, and the staff have stated as much. The judges can provide their input on site decisions, but djp is the one who ultimately calls the shots.

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Indeed.

Sidenote: the implementation of reviews on remix detail pages has changed somewhat; I'm using javascript to recreate some of the tabs on mix detail pages on the review threads, so you can bounce back and fourth between the two. The eventual plan is to move to actual links for downloads, lyrics, etc., i.e. "www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01000/download/", and at that point the forum tabs could also have more than just "main"... the contextual tabs (lyrics, at the moment) would be a little problematic... also, the judges decision forum will have these links and identify under the "reviews" tab, which is still kinda accurate, though a preferable solution may present itself.

If you've got no idea what I just said, that's cool, but if you do, let me know what you think...

I doubt I understood all you said but, this sounds like a pretty good idea. Especially for vocal tracks or piano performances to have material avaliable. Would you consider adding alternate takes or such to the download sextion? .wav or .rex2 loops for remixing other peoples tracks (not for OCR) would be fun too. So would pictures if there was a photo shoot during recording or maybe screenshots of the arrangement.

This is all really unnessecary to most people but I think it would bring the artists closer to the fans. I know there are people out there dying for information about their favorite remixes/remixers that the write-ups, no matter how good they are, can't give.

Though this might be something for OCR blogs.. Damn I think I just wasted your time here

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Technically, it's actually a dictatorship, and the staff have stated as much. The judges can provide their input on site decisions, but djp is the one who ultimately calls the shots.

Well, let's not kid ourselves.... a lot of sites would meet this definition of "dictatorship"; ultimately, as long as one person or entity owns the rights to the domain name and/or business name and/or trademark, the illusion of democracy can persist to varying degrees, but ultimately the decision-making authority is vested in the entity with legal ownership. So it becomes a matter of degrees. Frankly, you can characterize OCR as dictatorship, oligarchy, gerontocracy, etc. all you want, but on a great number of important site decisions, community feedback has been heavily solicited and given a great deal of weight.

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Which is quite appreciated, obviously. I just brought the dictatorship thing up since that seems to be the official staff statement on this issue.

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Which is quite appreciated, obviously. I just brought the dictatorship thing up since that seems to be the official staff statement on this issue.

Clearly I need to train my subservient underlings better... 30 lashes!

Going back to AnSo's comment, and since you're around Dhsu, I sorta like the idea of doing sheet music specifically, but perhaps allowing for ReMix "attachments" in general... for sheet music, one question would be whether we started a sheet music archive, or JUST allowed such files when they correspond with an existing mix or to-be-posted mix...

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The second option seems to make more sense, if I understood your post correctly. A general sheet music archive would be useful, but slightly out of the site's scope I would think. It'd also probably involve another level of quality control, which I think would just about put poor Larry in a straightjacket. :<

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The second option seems to make more sense, if I understood your post correctly. A general sheet music archive would be useful, but slightly out of the site's scope I would think. It'd also probably involve another level of quality control, which I think would just about put poor Larry in a straightjacket. :<

Well, the site's scope is almost inevitably going to be expanding... the equivalent of OCR 5.0 is in the works, and it's focused more on content than design.

I wouldn't think of putting it on the judge's panel, but if a separate group of ReMixers and/or members of the community were up for it, perhaps it'd be doable. For example, would you be interested?

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I'd be interested, sure, but whether I could actually hold up to that level of responsibility might be a different matter. I haven't even updated the unofficial archive for several months now. <_< But who knows, something like this might be just the kind of motivation I need.

Another question would be whether you want to have a site formatting standard for the sheet music. It might make quality control easier if people have guidelines to follow.

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I like the idea of a "content section" for each remix, if there's material for that and I know at least I would be interested in submitting content related to my remixes. I bet others would be interested to. It's a perfect step to get OCR to the next level regarding content.

To try to get a hold of and/or write sheet music for 1600 remixes sounds like a tedious task but the more sheet-music-friendly arrangements would benefit from a sheet music databse.

A sheet music database would require an ENORMOUS ammount of work if we want it to be quality sheet music. If we're talking about taking a midi and then printing the sheet music in Logic, it's a different matter. Especially because many use FL and Reason or other software capable of saving a piece as midi.

EDIT: also, thanks for considering my comment

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