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evanarnett

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Ha. I thought I remembered him saying something like that but I did a quick scan through Morse's thread and didn't see it so I thought I'd made it up. :razz:

I also remember Shariq, Dave & I talking in #judges later about it while attempting to hash out details and then quickly realizing how much we still hated the idea for the specific reasons in the FAQ. :lol: Worth noting that genre or taxonomic labels might encourage people to check out ReMixes from games they're not interested in. Feel free to debate where the effect of labels is greater, i.e. encouraging or discouraging listening to more ReMixes.

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I dunno about you guys but I avoid FPSes and RPGes and MMORPGs and Rhythm and RTSes and Action and Adventure and Puzzle games like the plague

(did I miss anything)

Tactical. Espionage. Action.

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I'm surprised to see links in this thread to djp floating the idea of genre tagging around. This is such a good thing! I'd like to extrapolate on why this is a good thing to encourage the people working here to implement it :)

If genre-tagging is implemented it will make it easier for users to find remixes they want to hear, and therefore they will download more remixes. A new (pay attention to the word "new" here) user who downloads a remix they don't like is less likely to come back to this website. Each time they find content they don't want they are more likely to close the browser window. On the flipside, if OCR offered genre identification, a new user would be able to quickly locate a large selection of remixes that they will probably enjoy. Then, and here's the beauty of it, it's very plausible that the user will realize that there are remixes in dozens of other genres here too, and when they feel up to it, they will choose to explore those genres as well.

Giving the user the ability to find exactly what they're looking for is the guiding principle of webdesign because it means that user will have a positive experience with the website and will likely come back to browse it again.

Obviously I'm not talking about the hardcore, anything goes, super-avid video game music fans who listen to everything that gets uploaded here. They're going to keep doing that irregardless. I'm talking about making the website easier to use for newcomers, which (in light of the increased publicity/exposure OCR has gotten lately) must be coming here in bigger numbers than ever before.

Something else that's worth considering- the way OCR is designed right now, when a remix is posted on the front page, that is when it is going to get the most exposure and therefore the most downloads. After it disappears off the front page, it vanishes into this "vault" of thousands of alphabetized remixes where basically you have to hope a user will stumble across it in their search for remixes from a specific game. If OCR were to implement genre tags, suddenly those thousands of back-logged remixes become obviously more accessible.

Power to the users!

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I realize the only (good) reason you (staff) don't want to implement genre identifcation is because you want users to experience a variety of different kinds of music. Well.. (aside from the fact that this isnt what average people want) I just had an idea that could enable this in an especially powerful way.

Playlists!

It's a rough brainstormed idea but why not allow judges, remixers and users to post playlists of music? With the press of a button several songs could be queued up in some sort of browser-embedded player (or otherwise) that could explore many styles of remixes, without requiring the user to do any extra work. Surely there are people in this community who would appreciate how the unique quality of a playlist influences the listeners' mood and allows them to expose themselves to new kinds of music that would otherwise meet the fastforward key.

Just a thought, I'll let everyone else take it from there..

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I specifically don't download every mix, because I know if it isn't predominantly in a minor-sounding mode, I won't like it. As a result, I usually only listen to mixes based on games from which I'm familiar with and do enjoy the original material.

Here's an inconsistency: we're pretty open to the "I'm looking for this type of music" threads, but we're against genre labelling. Pick a side, gentlemen.

What would be nice is if there were a "sounds like" field next to each mix, and the listeners could post a quick message there like a shout-out box. "Sounds like dark trance with electronic elements!"

Then you avoid all of the people who complain about genre labelling, and they can find another trivial subject to pitch a bitch about.

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DarkeSword explained the apparent inconsistancy.

I also like the playlist idea, especially if it was easy to download the playlist data and use it in iTunes or your music player of choice. Dunno how compatible playlist formats are, tho.

Of course, someone would have to code the playlist into the database, someone would have to verify that the playlists contain what they're supposed to, someone would ahve to update the playlist database, etc...

The idea is great. I would gladly share some playlists once I get the fixed files from the new torrent. Wonder how hard it'd be to get this integrated into the site... and if it should be.

edit: btw, isn't this a site issues & feedback -type thread?

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hello all,

i was wondering if the site has considered adding tags to the remixes to indicate genre?

djpretzel would feel lonely having the only piece in the hillbilly genre.

. . .

anyway i think people who come here are aware of what video game music is and come for particular remix of a particular game, rather that let' check for techno.

I realize the only (good) reason you (staff) don't want to implement genre identifcation is because you want users to experience a variety of different kinds of music. Well.. (aside from the fact that this isnt what average people want) I just had an idea that could enable this in an especially powerful way.

Playlists!

It's a rough brainstormed idea but why not allow judges, remixers and users to post playlists of music? With the press of a button several songs could be queued up in some sort of browser-embedded player (or otherwise) that could explore many styles of remixes, without requiring the user to do any extra work. Surely there are people in this community who would appreciate how the unique quality of a playlist influences the listeners' mood and allows them to expose themselves to new kinds of music that would otherwise meet the fastforward key.

Just a thought, I'll let everyone else take it from there..

Good idea. if the blog system is implemented why not allowing Judge, remixer (or even user) to have a small playlist too? It's maybe interesting to know what the people in your friendlist listen.

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Part of the reason is that a good number of tracks on this site can't really be conformed to one genre, especially with how many tracks kinda glide in between techno and trance, not to mention the fact that most OCR tracks don't conform to song structures that are common in most of said genres.

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i really support the idea of having tags for tracks - even beyond genres, being able to tag a track as 'saxophone' or 'vocal' or 'ken ardency drumset' (lol) and then look up all the vocal mixes when you're in the mood would be awesome. i wish that stuff like itunes had a tagging feature, too, for personal listening.

playlists would be awesome, too.

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My point was "Let's not tag the music so we can trick people into listening to music genres they do not like".

Oh, I know exactly what you meant and that's why it was a FACE to the other guy.

Because you're right - a lot of people just download the games from which they are familiar.

So it's all moot.

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My own thoughts: I tend to find that tags are just a tool for finding things. I don't think the existence of these tools results in any less music, even less variety of music, being heard, but usually has the opposite effect.

The downside mentioned in the FAQ is that it means people won't give things a chance, but I think that is absolutely not true. Technically this information is already there in the form of write-ups, it's just not easy to use. If you can't stand to listen to country, djp's write-up will mention it's country, and the people who truly didn't want to hear it will stop right there. If people who aren't usually into country end up checking it out, it's because they want to give it a chance, or it's featured on the front page, or it's from a game or artist they like.

To give you an example from my own life, I couldn't stand jazz for a while until my friend turned me on to Steely Dan. My first reaction to them was "yuck, jazz" until I realized it was the group that did "Do It Again" and "Peg", songs I liked which are more pop than jazz. I got way into the group and got exposure to their more jazzy songs, eventually starting to appreciate the genre more, and because of them I branched into a lot more jazz.

In my mind, more information is only a good thing, because it's the connections between things that help you branch out, not the lack of them. With tags, I could see a techno-head finding out that a techno song he likes uses steel guitar and then checking out more songs with steel guitar, dipping into genres he thought he didn't like. Or checking out a techno/rap hybrid song that he might have dismissed initially, if he scanned over djp's write-up and just saw "rap".

Then of course, you just get the advantage of helping out the person who really does only like one genre. Even they would get to listen to more music as a result of tags.

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I've been saying that we should tag remixes with descriptors (not genres) for years.

I thought this is what Last.FM's tagging system was for?

Ha. Take a look at all of the OC ReMixes on Last.FM. "video game music" "remix" "oc remix"

That's really great. :roll:

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The list I had in mind would be something like:

Electronica

Dance

Trance

Drum 'n' Bass

Accoustic

Beep-boop

Vocal

Metal

Hip Hop

Ambient

Orchestral

Big Band

Mustin

...what now? :nicework:

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I've been saying that we should tag remixes with descriptors (not genres) for years.

Ha. Take a look at all of the OC ReMixes on Last.FM. "video game music" "remix" "oc remix"

That's really great. :roll:

I understand in the current state it's unworkable, but that wouldn't prevent it from being used hence forth..

When we started the review forum, we went and back-reviewed all some 900 remixes so there would be at least something there. If tracks started getting tagged with both 'ocremix' and some other descriptor, it wouldn't take very long for a flashmob of supporters here to blast through the entire catalog with at least a start of something workable.

If not last.fm, then certainly some other system exists for the quantitative description of music that could be leveraged to give a little more insight into the nature of what exists here.

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Last.fm is one option, but honestly the way they handled disabling their embedded player without notifying webmasters first left a really bad taste in my mouth... in my opinion they don't have their shit together, and I don't want to rely on them for much of anything, much as I like certain aspects of their site/technology.

The easiest option is enabling thread tagging, supported in vBulletin 3.8, for the remix reviews forum, and then potentially pulling that data for display on the main mix page, although simply having it on the forums, with the ability to jump to the mix writeup from review threads, might be sufficient.

We're discussing this internally... we might put it to a panel vote and/or community vote, or simply implement something in "trial" mode.

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does thread tagging allow for a visual tag cloud and searching, like through all remixes? if so, that'd be good enough for someone like me who just wants to be able to go through and stick some labels on tracks.

of course, there'd have to be some way to limit it only to review threads.

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Although as other people have brought up, there will probably need to be some way to keep people from making inaccurate and/or useless tags. Maybe restrict it to a new "reviewer" forum group or something.

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or have some people who are allowed to delete tags.

having a jillion tags per song helps too, since the best ones will be repeated a lot. if you can only pick tags out of a group of them (like, ethnic, voice, jazz, strings, etc), that'd help too.

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