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ILLiterate

Street Fighter IV

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This.

I remember when some guy cried to me because I was playing Smash and kept doing the same move over and over because he kept wanting to roll into it. Why get fancy when you don't need to be to win?

Was it the boot?

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Speaking of cheap wins, the other day I played someone who picked Zangief. Counterpicked my Ryu, I think, just to lariat through fireballs. Well, he's the first Zangief I've played against, so I actually lost just as I realized how to beat him. We played another match with the same characters and I just got in and crouched under the lariat. I swept him about 5 times in a row, then overheaded him, threw him, hit him out of a focus attack and hit him with a Metsu Hadouken for the win. I felt cheap for being all up in his face the whole time, but if you're going to spam one move over and over again, you've got it coming. Also, the guy disconnected just as the results screen came up.

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Speaking of cheap wins, the other day I played someone who picked Zangief. Counterpicked my Ryu, I think, just to lariat through fireballs. Well, he's the first Zangief I've played against, so I actually lost just as I realized how to beat him. We played another match with the same characters and I just got in and crouched under the lariat. I swept him about 5 times in a row, then overheaded him, threw him, hit him out of a focus attack and hit him with a Metsu Hadouken for the win. I felt cheap for being all up in his face the whole time, but if you're going to spam one move over and over again, you've got it coming. Also, the guy disconnected just as the results screen came up.

What you refer to being cheap is classically defined as rushdown.

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Again, missing the point. You can beat the guy, but then you can also beat a puppy with a newspaper. How is that fun?

Also Global, that's totally fine if the person is dumb enough not to learn to guard for that move, but think how stupid it would be if you did the same move over and over and he still wails on you. You feel dumb and he probably feels an empty win.

I think one has to know why he's playing SF4 (or any game for that matter). If your only motivation is to win at all costs, then I guess spamming fireballs is the cheapest, least risky strategy to adopt : you stay far away from your opponent so you can't take any damage (especially if it's a non fireball-throwing character like, Zangief, E. Honda, Blanka, you name 'em...).

But if you're actually in it for the FUN and the satisfaction of feeling "Wow, I'm playing pretty good today !", then I personally think spamming fireballs (or any type of similar, repetitive strategy) is boring as hell and winning in that fashion brings absolutely no enjoyment whatsoever. There's a lot more challenge and fun in actually trying to land as many different techniques as possible.

As many would have guessed, I'm part of the 2nd category of players. But then again, it's not like I make a living off playing games. I do it for fun (which is, I believe, the raison d'être of games...).

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I think one has to know why he's playing SF4 (or any game for that matter). If your only motivation is to win at all costs, then I guess spamming fireballs is the cheapest, least risky strategy to adopt : you stay far away from your opponent so you can't take any damage (especially if it's a non fireball-throwing character like, Zangief, E. Honda, Blanka, you name 'em...).

But if you're actually in it for the FUN and the satisfaction of feeling "Wow, I'm playing pretty good today !", then I personally think spamming fireballs (or any type of similar, repetitive strategy) is boring as hell and winning in that fashion brings absolutely no enjoyment whatsoever. There's a lot more challenge and fun in actually trying to land as many different techniques as possible.

As many would have guessed, I'm part of the 2nd category of players. But then again, it's not like I make a living off playing games. I do it for fun (which is, I believe, the raison d'être of games...).

Winning is fun.

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Winning is fun.

Not inherently so.

After all, suppose you had a "You Win" button on your controller and nobody else did. You could just press that right at the start of the match and win every single time.

Fun?

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Not inherently so.

After all, suppose you had a "You Win" button on your controller and nobody else did. You could just press that right at the start of the match and win every single time.

Fun?

How the hell is that even realistic..? I've always hated that stupid arguement of the "You win" button because you do not see that normally happen. I hardly call spamming projectiles, in particular in the SF4, the end all be all of winning tactics. Especially if ur resourceful enough to get closer slowly.

Winning can be fun regardless of who ever thinks otherwise on how you do it. Hell if I find out that spamming fireballs at you would piss you off then I'd gladly do it in order to throw your game off. Same goes for if I find out me using Rufus's Vulture kicks or Messiah kicks fucked you up all the time I'll do it until I actually get bored of you and kick you off the lobby/you ragequit or you wise up. :lol:

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How the hell is that even realistic..?

It's not, but that's beside the point. If winning were fun in and of itself, the You Win button would be fun. That's that.

If you really can't wrap your head around that hypothetical example, though, just imagine two players of completely different skill levels. You (player 1) have not only been playing video games your whole life, but you've absolutely dedicated yourself to mastering this one game in particular. The other (player 2) hasn't played a single video game in his life. And he's missing a thumb. And he has cerebral palsy.

Now of course you're going to wipe the floor with player 2, but how is winning that match even remotely satisfying or fun? He doesn't have a hope in hell, and you know that. There's no challenge or effort or sense of accomplishment involved at all. It'd be like winning a boxing match against someone with no arms, or, as Malaki put it, beating a puppy with a rolled-up newspaper and then gloating about how you totally ripped that puppy a new one.

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The other (player 2) hasn't played a single video game in his life. And he's missing a thumb. And he has cerebral palsy.

Now of course you're going to wipe the floor with player 2, but how is winning that match even remotely satisfying or fun? He doesn't have a hope in hell, and you know that. There's no challenge or effort or sense of accomplishment involved at all. It'd be like winning a boxing match against someone with no arms, or, as Malaki put it, beating a puppy with a rolled-up newspaper and then gloating about how you totally ripped that puppy a new one.

1: I'd have to actually see or know first hand of my opponent's handicapped status to really put that into account of my personal pleasure of beating the crap out of him.

2. Take it as an opportunity for a warm up for a "real" match despite thinking the cpu would fare a better training experience; besides after beating him/her in record time I can just kick the player out or leave myself to find someone better.

3. Got to release my nasty sadism somewhere ya know :<

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I gotta say that for me personally, I have the most fun when the match is challenging. If I just steamroll someone, I don't get much satisfaction. If they're much better than me, it's more fun than playing someone much worse than me, but still not that fun. However, losing a match to someone worse than me due to my own execution problems is the least fun of all.

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losing a match to someone worse than me due to my own execution problems is the least fun of all.

This I can agree on... :)!!

Nothing like watching some one who played all the street fighter games using Ryu only to keep messing up the hadoken or the Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku and start mashing the buttons out of rage...

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For all the theory and nonsense written about competitive fighting games, IMO it just boils down to playing it a lot. That's really all there is. There aren't any bad players who have spent thousands of hours on SF, and there aren't any good players who have only spent a couple hours. Relatively speaking. Unfortunately, I am a bad player :( Got trounced 9:1 online today with this guy who was playing basically the whole cast. I won some rounds here and there, but his timing was just flawless. Tons of cancels, tons of perfect timing, perfect crossups.

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All you people talking about cheapness and what not should go here and read. It's a bunch of articles written by Seth Killian, who works at Capcom now.

For the record, I'm not actually saying that fireball spamming is "cheap" or "dishonorable" or anything else.

I'm just saying that given the choice between a close, intense and frantic match that I end up losing and a match where I press QCF+P until my opponent is dead, I'd go for the former.

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For all the theory and nonsense written about competitive fighting games, IMO it just boils down to playing it a lot. That's really all there is. There aren't any bad players who have spent thousands of hours on SF,

lets stop that right there.

That is most certainly untrue. Its incredibly easy to be bad at SF, depsite playing it a lot. Now if you play that much, most likely you'll take the time to look up the information needed for you to play well. But let's say you didn't just for kicks.

If you didn't look up information, you would probably never figure out, for instance, abel's mk -> forward dash -> whatever. You would never know that you can cr.mk xx Change of Direction. These are things that you need people to tell you, and playing a lot would never teach you that. That's just 2 examples from one character but there's plenty for each.

The same happens in melee, a game which i played competitively (and still do when i get the chance). There are people who play that game for YEARS that I can wallop on with no effort at all. Their experience doesn't teach them anything, because its not on the proper level of competition. They don't understand why mewtwo is bad, or why short hop lasering is worthwhile. And unless someone teaches them (or they teach themselves) they never will.

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Nah, I don't believe that. People find out properties of moves in the game by playing a lot to begin with, so if you put a TON of time into playing you WOULD get better over time regardless of whether you're looking online for more info or not. Show me someone who has been playing for thousands of hours and sucks ;)

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If you didn't look up information, you would probably never figure out, for instance, abel's mk -> forward dash -> whatever. You would never know that you can cr.mk xx Change of Direction. These are things that you need people to tell you, and playing a lot would never teach you that. That's just 2 examples from one character but there's plenty for each.

People will figure out what tools work best in given situations over time. No one needs someone else to do the work for them -- in fact this is often detrimental because what works well can have variations for each different person (for instance, I'm not about to put in the time to learn all of Chun's 1-frame link combos, no matter how well they work). There's no one certain tactic for any character that's neccessary to win...

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Is there anyone *really* good around that could help me to improve my game? I'm starting to get very sick of losing. I can climb up to 1500bp but I just get knocked down to 1000 or less. It's extremely frustrating and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

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for me personally breaking down every little tiny detail of a fighting game takes away the fun of playing it.Don't get me wrong here not saying that it's not fun learning and getting better at the game,it is fun yes but breaking it down to an exact science where your just invincible is an fruitless pursuit to me.Now i would say I'm a hardcore gamer but the goal of becoming very good at a vidoegame shouldn't ruin the FUN of it.I'm sure it doesn't for most people but some people gets really stressed out over losing a bunch of matches in ranked that because some of the people who play ranked really don't care about fun they care about winning that's all that matters to them.The cardinal Rule of videogame design to me is ,It must be fun.So when complaining about little details like chip damage and move priorities the game loses purpose for me which ultimately is to have fun.

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People will figure out what tools work best in given situations over time. No one needs someone else to do the work for them -- in fact this is often detrimental because what works well can have variations for each different person (for instance, I'm not about to put in the time to learn all of Chun's 1-frame link combos, no matter how well they work). There's no one certain tactic for any character that's neccessary to win...
Nah, I don't believe that. People find out properties of moves in the game by playing a lot to begin with, so if you put a TON of time into playing you WOULD get better over time regardless of whether you're looking online for more info or not. Show me someone who has been playing for thousands of hours and sucks ;)

Now I'm not saying that you can play thousands of hours and be BAD, but I do believe that you can play forever and not be good. Things like link combos aren't going to be randomly discovered during play, so you'll get better, but only with the tools you know and understand. If you only know and understand some of your overall tools, then you'll never excel at the game, and you'll never know all of your tools without external information.

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