Crowbar Man

Sony PlayStation 4

385 posts in this topic

**8/22**

I'll update this sometime but for now I'll just use the image Brandon posted:

9v5wRG6.png

** UPDATED 2/21 **

Sony had a giant press conference today, where their next gen console has been officially announced as "PlayStation 4".

Honestly, not a lot of stuff was shown off of the hardware, mostly talks about services and functionality, and some previews of upcoming games/tech demos

This is what has been said so far:

Known Specs:

Designed to be completely developer friendly

AMD 8 Core "Jaguar" x86-64 CPU

8GB GDDR5 RAM

Custom AMD Radeon "Enhanced PC GPU"

Internal Hard Drive

*Rumored to both be provided by AMD, but not officially revealed

Controller:

DualShock_4.jpg

Dual Shock 4

Same features as DS3 plus:

Redesigned Dpad/Analog Sticks

Touch pad (like the Vita's underside) on the front of the controller

Headphone Communication Jack on the bottom (think WiiU/360)

Dedicated "Share" Button

Light Strip (like the Move bulb, for both player identification and motion tracking)

There appears to be a speaker on the controller too but I don't think Sony mentioned much of it

Triggers are proper triggers

PlayStation 4 Eye

ds4_1.png

Twin 1280×800 camera sensors, used together for depth sensing (like the Kinect) or one for video recording while the other one does motion tracking (PlayStation Eye style)

Live Video Streaming Services:

The console has dedicated hardware for live video streaming. You can hit the share button and stream your experiences to your friends or the entire world (Ustream).

Spectate:

Along with being able to watch you play games, you can have the audience interact with you, from cheering you on, dropping items, to even switching places if your stuck in a part and giving them control

No PS3 Compatibility:

Sadly PS4 will not offer BC for PS3 in any physical form. However, instead:

PlayStation Cloud:

Sony is planning on offering, somehow, some portion of the PlayStation library past (all the way to PS1) and present in a streaming service they are calling PlayStation Cloud (Powered by GaiKai). This service will be offered on PS4, but will spread to other devices as well. No details given yet

Social Gaming:

Sony will have a dedicated social gaming networking service (similar to what Nintendo is doing with Wii U). Share your screenshots, videos, etc. Also interacts with other social media. They are planning on having mobile apps to interact with this service

PS4 Remote Play:

You can use the Vita to play PS4 games anywhere in your household (Similar to Wii U Off TV mode)

Suspend Mode:

PS4 can go into low power suspend mode instead of shutting off completely, letting you instantly resume your game instead of booting the console from scratch

Preview Games:

Powerd by GaiKai, you can preview games before you buy them

Background Downloading Service / Download While You Play:

PS4 has dedicated hardware to handle downloading software in the background, this includes even downloading a portion of a new game and being able to play it while it is still downloading

Move Compatibility:

Confirmed that PS Move is compatible on the PS4, much like Wiimotes work on the Wii U (HMMMM)

It is confirmed that Dual Shock 3 is NOT compatible with PS4 :/

CONSOLE:

NOT SHOWN

MEDIA:

6X BluRay, 8X DVD. (Apparently no CD)

Connectivity:

10/100/1000 Ethernet, 802.11 b/g/n Wireless, Bluetooth 2.1, USB 3.0

Output:

HDMI

AV-Out

Optical

Resolution:

Supports up to 4K resolution (Games will not be native 4K, only pictures/video.)

PRICE:

??????

RELEASE:

TBA HOLIDAY 2013

GAMES/TECH DEMO:

Unreal Engine 4 Tech Demo (claimed it was in real time, but looks exactly like the trailer we've seen, and no interaction done)

Evolution Studio - Drive Club

Suckerpunch - inFamous Second Son

Johnathan Blow (Braid) - The Witness

Capcom - Deep Down - Running on their new Panta Rhei Engine, looks kinda like Monster Hunter + Dark/Demon Souls

Media Molecule - Unnamed Project.. some 3D sculpting / animation / "Dream Making" thing. Looks interesting!

Quantic Dreams - uhhh old man head tech demo (There is always one of these!)

Square Enix - "Will have news of a Final Fantasy announcement later this year" showed off their new engine again (old trailer)

Ubisoft - Watch Dogs

Blizzard - Diablo III ( ... )

Bungie - Destiny (MMO FPS)

More TBA

Edited by Crowbar Man

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Sucks about the lack of BackComp. I mean, PSCloud is nice and all, but unless they offer you a rebate on a free version of your PS3 games - i.e. type in your upc to unlock it on the network, or some such - that's not quite the same thing.

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Yeah I'm not too crazy about cloud streaming services. Theres no way its lagless and its never "yours" in any stretch of imagination. Gotta keep your PS3 around I guess.

They didn't mention anything about pricing on this cloud service, whether it be a per title thing or an "all you can eat" type subscription thing.

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I honestly don't know about all the technical stuff that goes into the hardware development for these systems, but I just can't understand why Sony wont make their stuff fully backwards compatible for people that already own older games. I don't want to have a PS4 and PS2 hooked up to my TV and I definitely don't want to re-purchase a digital copy of something I already own.

I bitch about it now, but I'm more than likely gonna get the PS4 for inFamous, Watch Dogs and Destiny.:banghead:

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Wow the Dual Shock 4 still has the same layout idea but it seems to have changed more than any other controller, at least in appearance. Not including the original PS1 controller that didn't have the analog sticks.

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No info on used PS4 games?

I suspect that after the first few weeks, when the first buyers are starting to trade or sell their launch titles for new games, we're going to see some shit hit at least one air moving device.

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the only impressive thing I see here is the "suspend mode", AKA Hibernate mode for people who use PCs (and maybe Macs?), and even then it's not THAT impressive.

Not impressed with the Vita/PS4 connection. Basically, "buy TWO Sony products to do something a competitor has built-in with one!" Unless you sucker up to buy both (and I'm sure a LOT of people will), I don't see that many people engaging with this mode of play.

Touch pad is kind of cool I guess, and I am intrigued by the "download-while-you-play".

However, the lack of backwards-compatibility is a shot in the foot fired from your own gun.

...Then again, you have to have a Vita to play your PS4 elsewhere in your house, so... I guess Sony's idea is to get consumers to buy as much as they can, sans convenience?

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I personally think some of the ideas of video sharing are kinda neat. Overall the only super interesting thing really shown off to me was whatever the heck Media Molecule made. That looks crazy. Without a price though, it is hard to judge. Since Wii U is crazy expensive, I doubt we are getting away anything less than around $450 for a basic model. I doubt we will get that lucky too

Also hard to get excited for anything Sony claims is "real time", because they are classic liars about everything, every time they get ready to release a new console.

Lack of BC:

When the architecture is completely changed, you only have two choices:

Put some of the old hardware in (Expensive, Sony cut the PS2 chips out of PS3 because of this, I doubt PS3 chips are cheap)

Emulate (Takes ton of effort, lots of horse power, can get mixed results, see Xbox 1 games on 360 (small library that slowly expanded, never got the full library, lots of bugs, etc))

If the rumors about Xbox 8/Infinity/720/Durango specs are true, Microsoft is also taking the x86-64 route instead of PPC. Which means 720/Durango will either not have any BC, or have to go the emu route like Xbox -> 360, meaning small library and possibly poor results. I doubt they will do that if Sony isn't bothering at all. The only reason they did it on the 360 is because Sony always used BC as a selling point

Wii U will probably be the only BC compatible console this gen

On the flip side, PS5 and Xbox 1080/9/Infinity+1/"Whatever" will possibly be easily BC if they keep the x86-64 + common PC GPU thing going. NEXT NEXT GEN!!!111

The Damned:

They did not mention used games. They didn't mention anything about its Media format at all for the matter, which is curious. Maybe since there is no brand new media format to sell they are down playing its importance. Or worse: There isn't any :/ I doubt that though

Edited by Crowbar Man

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PS4 has no media format, you just get your games from some sort of cloud thingy and then you have to hope it never goes tits up and dies on you.

CONFIRMED.

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There is no pleasing you people is there? The ps3 can do almost anything and all of this connectivity is the only way it can improve upon itself. I mean, how cool is it that you can watch livestream footage of your friends game? You can even control their game remotely if they are stuck on a spot! They gave you their 8 gigs of ram. They made it easy to develop for. They are getting Blizzard and Bungie to bring their content to ps4. You saw the Watch Dogs and Killzone Demo. What more could you want? If they put an extra cell processor in the ps4 for BC, it would be $799!! And you're not allowed to complain about locked used games until someone says something about it. So far, no one has made any claims about it. Don't let something like that destroy any interest in their next project.

EDIT: uh, no. It uses bluray.

Edited by Thin Crust

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I honestly don't know about all the technical stuff that goes into the hardware development for these systems, but I just can't understand why Sony wont make their stuff fully backwards compatible for people that already own older games. I don't want to have a PS4 and PS2 hooked up to my TV and I definitely don't want to re-purchase a digital copy of something I already own.

I bitch about it now, but I'm more than likely gonna get the PS4 for inFamous, Watch Dogs and Destiny.:banghead:

Because backwards compatibility made the PS3 way more expensive than Sony needed it to be, and ultimately was pretty pointless since the emulation wasn't all that great (even on the 60GB launch model, which had the Emotion chip installed).

Backwards compatibility is a nice thing to have, but from a business standpoint, and especially Sony's standpoint, making things BC for games powered by Cell or even further back is ludicrous.

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There is no pleasing you people is there? The ps3 can do almost anything and all of this connectivity is the only way it can improve upon itself. I mean, how cool is it that you can watch livestream footage of your friends game?

Not that cool. I don't buy a video game system to watch people play games, I buy a video game system to play video games.

You can even control their game remotely if they are stuck on a spot!

Yeah, there's about five million security issues that make me want to physically remove whatever circuitry that allows this with a jackahmmer

They gave you their 8 gigs of ram. They made it easy to develop for.

Worthless if that ram is never utilized to it's potential, and they said the PS3 was easy to develop for. Sony is hardly the ideal person to talk about how awesome Sony stuff is. (They will lie to you)

They are getting Blizzard and Bungie to bring their content to ps4.

And to the PS3, and 360, and everyone who cared about Diablo 3 already bought it on PC. Diablo 3 itself is a bit of a weird infected poodle in terms of quality. And really, every developer likes to brag about how many developers are TOTALLY ON BOARD and READY TO BOARD THE SS PLAYSTATION and TRIP THE SONY FANTASTIC when it can be summed up as "Multiplatform mediocre games will appear on this system." Same as it ever was.

You saw the Watch Dogs and Killzone Demo. What more could you want?

Pictures of the console. More details. A reason to trust them after their entire run with the PSP, PS3, and Vita can be summed up as a baby shitting itself and going OOPS I POOED. A reason to not think of them as the laughingstock of the video game world.

If they put an extra cell processor in the ps4 for BC, it would be $799!!

Guess they better fucking get cracking and find a way to reduce the cost, or maybe not make such stupid fucking mistakes that cost them their entire lead.

And you're not allowed to complain about locked used games until someone says something about it.

Bull fucking shit. Bull. Fucking. Shit. We are very much allowed to a complain to a company that for years has made it very clear, through statements from executives, to patent filings, to press releases, and everything in between that they do not like used games, and will go to great lengths and attempts to try and crush them, ignorant of what consumers like, and in some cases, legality. I'm not sure what the fuck is wrong in your head that makes you go "You're not ALLOWED to complain about locked used games until hurrr hurr hurr hurr." You want someone to say something about it? Here's Sony filing a patent that can be used to block used games You are entirely willfully ignorant if you haven't seen the near-constant dialogue on used games in the past few years.

So far, no one has made any claims about it.

See above link about Sony filing a patent

Don't let something like that destroy any interest in their next project.

If Sony will not let me play used games, I will not buy their system. End Black and white, clear as crystal, floating up to the ceiling which needs to be washed and sterilized. They will get nothing

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You do realize that sony files thousands of patents right? Remember that one about the controller that breaks in half? Just because the patent is there, doesn't mean that they will use it. Wait until the official word before complaining. Just like people won't stop complaining about imbalance in Heart of the Swarm even though it is still in beta and being constantly changed. Complain after its official.

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SO! Will this be the generation of consoles that finally gets me to not want to buy consoles anymore? It's shaping up to be that way.

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SO! Will this be the generation of consoles that finally gets me to not want to buy consoles anymore? It's shaping up to be that way.

I'm never certain whether or not I should be excited for the future of video games

or afraid.....very afraid.

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Pictures of the console. More details. A reason to trust them after their entire run with the PSP, PS3, and Vita can be summed up as a baby shitting itself and going OOPS I POOED. A reason to not think of them as the laughingstock of the video game world.

I think this is a little more than ridiculous.

* The PSP was a fantastic system. TONS of great exclusive games, great ports, superb modability (emulators, ROMs, etc), good battery, great screen, great control. Getting ~PS2-level games in a handheld was a pretty fantastic feat in and of itself, but they also had forward-thinking internet features/wifi, micro USB charger / disk drive, store functionality, output to TV... I mean really, it was an amazing system.

* Can't speak to the Vita...

* ... but the PS3 turned out pretty amazing after the price dropped. Not sure how one can dispute this. Compared to the Xbox 360, it has more power and often gets superior ports that run better. Excellent exclusives like Infamous, Journey, and Ni No Kuni. Built-in wifi for free (unlike 360). Great library of PS1, PS2, PS3 games, retro classics, etc. A very sleek online platform that is free (again, unlike 360) and not filled with bullshit avatars, advertisements, etc. Built-in Blu Ray. Compared to Playstation Plus, if you like that sort of thing, Live Gold is an absolute joke. Free games, free content, huge discounts, etc etc.

Not to mention the PS3 is less proprietary than the 360 or Wii in the hardware you can connect to it, just a little bonus.

I was laughing at the PS3 when it first came out as well; at $599 with a weak library, it was a joke. But fast forward to today and my 360 is collecting dust. I prefer the PS3 exclusives, the FREE online experience & wifi capability, the Blu Ray player, and the fact that most games simply look + run better on it. Not to mention it has a bigger built-in hard drive than my 360.

The backwards compatibility thing is stupid but honestly, nobody cared with the PS3 (sales picked up quite a bit just due to price dropping) and nobody will care with PS4. That being said, I probably won't get one myself until the price comes down to the <=$300 range and it builds up enough games for me to be interested in.

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I think this is a little more than ridiculous.

* The PSP was a fantastic system. TONS of great exclusive games, great ports, superb modability (emulators, ROMs, etc), good battery, great screen, great control. Getting ~PS2-level games in a handheld was a pretty fantastic feat in and of itself, but they also had forward-thinking internet features/wifi, micro USB charger / disk drive, store functionality, output to TV... I mean really, it was an amazing system.

* Can't speak to the Vita...

* ... but the PS3 turned out pretty amazing after the price dropped. Not sure how one can dispute this. Compared to the Xbox 360, it has more power and often gets superior ports that run better. Excellent exclusives like Infamous, Journey, and Ni No Kuni. Built-in wifi for free (unlike 360). Great library of PS1, PS2, PS3 games, retro classics, etc. A very sleek online platform that is free (again, unlike 360) and not filled with bullshit avatars, advertisements, etc. Built-in Blu Ray. Compared to Playstation Plus, if you like that sort of thing, Live Gold is an absolute joke. Free games, free content, huge discounts, etc etc.

Not to mention the PS3 is less proprietary than the 360 or Wii in the hardware you can connect to it, just a little bonus.

I was laughing at the PS3 when it first came out as well; at $599 with a weak library, it was a joke. But fast forward to today and my 360 is collecting dust. I prefer the PS3 exclusives, the FREE online experience & wifi capability, the Blu Ray player, and the fact that most games simply look + run better on it. Not to mention it has a bigger built-in hard drive than my 360.

The backwards compatibility thing is stupid but honestly, nobody cared with the PS3 (sales picked up quite a bit just due to price dropping) and nobody will care with PS4. That being said, I probably won't get one myself until the price comes down to the <=$300 range and it builds up enough games for me to be interested in.

Now comes the part where the xbox fans tell you that PS3 has "shoddy" servers and they get hacked.

While ignoring the Microsoft products that are hacked constantly and they don't even own a PS3.

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I owned all three of the previous generations consoles. I still own a PS3 and a 360. 360 gets play, while the PS3 is typically just used as a bluray player. Both consoles are slowly waning in play time. I get most of my console play via the 3DS and my PC. The Vita is a fantastic system, that is suffering from not having a very lame library. While I do like that Sony is making PS1 classic games available on the Vita platform, which is more than the Big N can say with it's rather depressing selection. Much like the underwhelming offering from Nintendo, the PS4 and 720 are shaping up to make this the console cycle that I hand in my controller. With more and more multiplatform games being made available and better on the PC, there is really no reason to grab them.

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After I get a new computer I might consider buying a PS3. I'll have to do more research first. I can guarantee you that I won't be buying a ps4 within the next 5 or so years, especially if it costs 500+.

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Yeah, there's about five million security issues that make me want to physically remove whatever circuitry that allows this with a jackahmmer

Or you could just you know... not invite people to spectate.

Worthless if that ram is never utilized to it's potential, and they said the PS3 was easy to develop for

PS3 had a custom architecture (Cell processor) that was notorious for being hard to develop for, along with a split RAM setup with only 256MB for main/system.

PS4 has x86-64 processor (which people have been developing on x86 for decades), and 8GB of Unified RAM.

You have to see the major difference between those. Its pretty huge

Both MS and Sony have anti-consumer patents on blocking used games, doesn't mean either will use them this gen. Unless they officially state that, there is no reason to get upset about something that isn't factual.

SO! Will this be the generation of consoles that finally gets me to not want to buy consoles anymore? It's shaping up to be that way.

From your whole Master PC Race spiel you usually go off into, this is no surprise.

Zircon:

I can agree with most of what you said but this sticks out:

it has more power and often gets superior ports that run better

95% of the time if the game is on both consoles, the 360 version runs better. The 360 also generally had a far superior system software and online setup. Sony has graduatlly improved to the point where things are much more usable now, and continue to improve (PS Plus also is really great) but I wouldn't say their online offering is still quite as good as 360. I do think its incredibly idiotic that you can't use pay for services on Silver though

Over 360 started out fantastic and booming. MS has just kinda left it stagnate and stopped caring about exclusives for some reason. It is rather odd, but that is what competition is all about.

Edited by Crowbar Man

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I think this is a little more than ridiculous.

I disagree. While they "eventually became good", the same could be said of the Dreamcast. Financially, the PSP and PS3 were pretty dismal successes, with the PSP bordering on outright failure. The Vita doesn't have a lot going for it, and with Nintendo scoring Monster Hunter over the PSP, it doesn't look good.

I'm not interested in a system because "It may be awesome down the line" or "It may fix the problems it has at launch", I'd prefer something without problems in the first place. Sony screwed the pooch so hard I winced a bit, especially after an astonishingly good coup with the PS1 and continued momentum with the PS2

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Er no. Dreamcast was great from the get go from a gaming standpoint, then died because Sega bailed out due to financial issues and the insanely stupid popularity of PS2.

I don't see the parallel. PSP/PS3 started out abysmal then improved dramatically over the years. They are selling now more than ever, and have lots of games actually worth playing now.

Also FYI: PS2 was a terrible console design wise. Impossible to develop for, Sony lied about the specs, etc. (Sound familiar?) The only reason it had good games was because the PlayStation brand was so popular, you kind of HAD to make games on it. (Dreamcast's low adoption rate/death, GC/Xbox were a few years late)

PS4 is breaking the tradition of "Badly designed console" Sony started with PS2, at least on paper. We will have to see what devs say. Its hard to imagine basically common PC parts giving anybody issues though

If you want something thats "Good from the start", most consoles start off kinda iffy. Its good to wait a year or so before their library turns up anything worth buying. Early adopting will usually leave you with crap

You have no idea how PS4 will be at launch, so I'm not sure what your going on about.

Wii U is the ONLY "next gen" sytem out, and its unfortunately having its own share of issues.

Edited by Crowbar Man

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