djpretzel Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealexfish Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I didn't like it because the original melody that it was inspired by was changed so much that it was almost unrecognizable and didn't sound very good. I really like the original tune, but this didn't have the catchyness or energy that made the original so great. It may have been the way the tune was rearranged, or it might have been how it felt fairly anticlimatic. I waited for the climax to come, but it never did. I actually told the song to "do something" near the end of the song because it was getting boring. I have 3 other songs by GrayLightning, but I don't like this one that much. I would say that this is really well done and the instruments are well sampled and such, and I'm sure a lot of effort was put into it. EDIT: Basically, I didn't like how he rearranged the song. I thought it sounded pretty bland and boring without any melody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darangen Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 While pretty liberal with the theme, this is nothing short of awesome. Great dynamics + awesome percussion + amazing originality = GrayLightning. This is what ReMixing is all about . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less Ashamed Of Self Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 While I can tell it was well produced, and the dynamics were well done and effective. The liberties taken here, the sheer combination of so many themes, it just left me very uninspired. I agree with thealexfish. A little more harshly; I was physically rolling my eyes at how many OCR/orchestral cliches were used here. It was like everything I don't like about an orchestral OCR mixed in to one track. And I can't help but think; How does someone who's as big as GreyLightening wake up and say: "I think I'll mix something today, you know what I'd like to hear: an orchestral rendition of a Chrono Trigger piece, I should check to see if anyone has done frog's theme..." To someone just coming here, (ie: from Fark) it will floor them. I hope this pleases many fans of CT and the song chosen. But sorry I think I've built up a bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protricity Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 While I can tell it was well produced, and the dynamics were well done and effective. The liberties taken here, the sheer combination of so many themes, it just left me very uninspired. I agree with thealexfish. Agreed. Quite cliche and uninspired. As with most Gray mixes, the sample-quality and sound effects sound great, and the composition is plodding and irksome. Eventually I hope this new-age phase will wear away. There's more to music than style and cymbal crescendos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgx Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I think this is sweet. I'm not really a fan of the original (I think I've heard a few too many assy newb trance mixes of it), but this is real nice. Very kewl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddity Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Sounds like all these negativities are either coming from Frog's theme being mixed which just somehow has to sound bad because of some expectation, or from something being done in a style. Sure I can see the latter being acceptible if a more in-depth review was written, but right now it just seems like one aspect is being listened to and then there is an ignoring of everything else. I know how this is, as it's happened in so many songs for me. In a gabber song, the gabber bass kick sample seemed so overwhelming at first, but then the rest seemed so much more signified after future listens, and it sounded so good. Anyway, not that big of a deal. Most of these reviews are just this, short and opinionated. I guess I just kinda felt sorry for Gray, waking up (in retrospect to someone else's saying...) to see hate on his song he made for fun because of two aspects a lot of other people see as negative when he wouldn't think as much so. I even had the thoughts here and there these people are expressing, but not enough to make me say it in such a way as others here, based on past experiences with single listenings and how they shouldn't be relied on all the time; I too have loved the original so much at one point in time, it being one of my favorites in VGM ever all that time ago. Now it does nothing for me, and never will again. While Gray has clearly put in the original melody, I am glad there is some arrangement backing it up. As for that such arrangement having cliches, I certaintly didn't notice them. Which cliches are we talking about? An instrument being used? Ooh wow, I noticed that too, but the notes it played could have been incredibly cliched but they weren't. Oh well. I hope my ridiculous review has been as ridiculous as everyone else's. I only listened to it once and a half, heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RimFrost the Tourianist Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 As that which has been said, the sample quality IS great,and an effort has been made to have it sound huge and inventive. But i did however come to expect something more epic and original from GL ,because Frog's Theme had such great potential for a massive and dramatic masterpiece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I appreciated this dynamic melody. The orchestra is pure and brilliant. For me 01:38 up to 02:04 the melody is very diversified. This remix has a powerful energy. The arrangement is excellent. This is a Chrono Trigger remix. But the work is very great. This seems a good movie music. Nice Work,Gray! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Drasiir Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Maybe this one wasn't supposed to be as epic as you expected? If you consider this in gaming terms, this would be one of a few different versions used at different points in the game. It sets a different mood than the one we're used to. I dunno, I love this. Frog's theme is too short to not mix up a bit. Yeah, sure the theme has been done, but that's the point of the creative liberty. This is a new interpretation. This is the first CT mix in a while that I have really been awed by. And no I'm not from Fark. Thanks Graylightning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israfel Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 This should be listened to multiple times. Not because it's difficult to "get" or anything, but because there are some great compositional details that one might miss on one or two distracted listenings. I really enjoy the way that Gray deals with rhythm for adding development and cohesion to the piece. For instance, the triplet rhythm of the main theme (at :11 etc.) is used as the basis for the beautiful crescendo at :28. And another great little addition to this section is the accented upbeats that start at :32 giving the impression that the meter has changed- very nicely done. It's strange, despite the "liberal interpretation" I think you'd be hard pressed to find more than 20 seconds of music here that isn't in some way developing the original. No, it's not perfect and not everyone will like it. But I do think that this mix is a bit more inspired and thought-out than some people are giving it credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Emp Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 An unusual and "graylightning-style" interpretation of the original, backed up with great samples and skillful arrangement. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 The remixer transforms the original. However has always preferred, maybe not the better. But preferred. The popular people not judge the perfect, however the good. Therefore, the opinions vary between the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Aw, this remix is such a tease! While I can appreciate the creativity involved in basically chopping up the original piece and skillfully reassembling it into something listenable, nay enjoyable, I was really looking forward to the part of El Themo de Frogo that plays during the game. There were many times listening to Sacratus Bellator that I said "okay, we're leading up to it, and...now!" but nothing happened. There was even potential for a grand finale at the end, which unfortunately (for me anyways) Composmeister GrayLightning did not supply. So, while I must say that this is obviously a well-crafted if liberal interpretation of Frog's Theme, and though it is one of the better remixes of it out there, it isn't what I was looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 The remixer transforms the original. However has always preferred, maybe not the better. But preferred. The popular people not judge the perfect, however the good. Therefore, the opinions vary between the people. Clearly! Nice work on this Gray. Choir patches are awesome. Nice chromatic percussion stuff too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benevolensaurus Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I like this. I'm not familiar with the original, so I can't say whether it's done justice or not, but in my ignorance it sounds good enough. Sort of native american-y and stuff. Maybe some of the.. special effect type things were over-used a little, but I don't really mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akagi Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Those that have shown they do not like this arrangement have said so in a way that they have a predetermined expectation of Frog's Theme. Yes, that song has a very powerful emotion in itself. But the essence of arranging any music is to interpret the song into the arranger's own way. How can people bash GL's arrangement when they won't allow him to do what arrangers are supposed to do. I enjoyed this song because GL turned Frog's Theme into something it hasn't been before. And that is what we should be looking for in an arrangement: changing a song to what it hasn't been before. There were many parts in this song where I could close my eyes and feel like I'm watching Gladiator or The Last Samurai. Is it just me, or did this arrangement have the cool movie score sounds of Hans Zimmer? I really like the fact that it made me go through a large thought process. cool cool stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgfoo Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 This is a very different take on Frogs theme as many of you have pointed out. I really like it, but then I wasn't that fond of the original myself. It definitely has that GrayLightning feel to it. I really like the part that starts at 2'04" with the flute, strings, piano and bells. Great arranging throught the song, good dynamics and all of those other little things that make a great song great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague Rant Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 What on earth is going on here? People can't express a negative opinion any more? Anyway, it seems that everyone thinks their only complaint is that it's Frog's Theme, but perhaps if they read them over a little more, they'd see that that's just not so. As for their messages being opinionated, that is rumored to be the point. What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix. I don't mind the remix. It's not anything shocking or revolutionary, but not much is. It's okay to listen to, so I'm listening to it. It just won't become one of my staples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 What on earth is going on here? People can't express a negative opinion any more? Anyway, it seems that everyone thinks their only complaint is that it's Frog's Theme, but perhaps if they read them over a little more, they'd see that that's just not so. As for their messages being opinionated, that is rumored to be the point.What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix. I don't mind the remix. It's not anything shocking or revolutionary, but not much is. It's okay to listen to, so I'm listening to it. It just won't become one of my staples. The majority has positive opinions. That is truth. But you are exaggerating. I for example, already had my negative opinions: Bomberman 'Bomberfuzz', Bomberman 3 'Bomb Factory', Super Mario Bros. 'frivolous funk', Donkey Kong Country 2 'Brambly Rivers'... Moreover is important to know that nobody criticizes one remix without intention. Therefore I find that you must think more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMage Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I think I actually requested this Remix or something like it (Frog's Theme, done orchestrated) a couple of months back, so I'm especially grateful. The fact that it's an awesome mix is just the icing on the cake. My thanks Gray Lightning, for fulfilling my ReQuest, and for doing a good job of it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Before I say anything else, 1:19-1:25 is to die for! I think it may be the finest six seconds of music Gray's written "Sacratus Bellator" is a good remix, even an excellent remix, but slightly more problematic than Gray's other recent work. The "issues" might be some of the reason we're seeing mixed reviews here. In some cases, however, I think the negative reviews really are from a lack of musical understanding (I basically agree with Israfel, I'm just not as nice). In particular, I want to debunk the idea that this remix does not contain enough of Frog's theme. This remix is a pretty textbook -- and well-executed -- example of writing variations on a melody. It's a concept about as old as music itself, and if you can't recognize it in action you need to get with the program. Of course it's okay to express negative opinions, but I have the right to argue when I think someone's opinion is based on a lack of basic knowledge. The goodness of this remix lies in the quality and creativity of the variations. Gray is particularly good, both here and in general, at doing clever things with timing. For example, that great moment at 1:19-1:25 is a resolution back to a familiar phrase from a time-shifted (and slightly altered, notewise) version of the measure before it. The emotional impact crutches on the assumption that the listener has heard the original Frog theme. I think it's a cool artistic use for the form that is the OC ReMix ^^. Other neat variation-related tricks include using just the first two notes of the melody to establish a groove and provide an emotional build -- the nicest example is at 3:19, the synchopated version of the melody at 2:16, and the piano countermelody at 0:38. I dislike the pacing of the intro (start-0:26). The idea was to ease in gradually, I think, but too many instruments and motifs are introducted all at the same time... The swell at 0:07 is the most obviously misplaced -- I think this may have been part of what someone was calling "cliche" in his usual socially constipated manner (hehe sorry Prot). The end result does sound a little like the intro wasn't working out to begin with, so you threw in a swell to cover it up. In particular, I think the alternating violin notes are a bit too dense to come in right at the start... That idea would have been better saved until 0:29. I'm neither an expert nor a fan of much ethnic music, so take this with a grain of salt: some of the ethnic sections sounded a bit clinky to me. I thought the flutter-tongue on the shakuhadidgeripanflute was overused, nor did I like some of the chromatic percussion -- particularly at 1:52-2:01 (that passage in general sounds uninspired). It does work pretty well at 2:38 though. To me, ethnic instruments tend to bring any music dangerously close to kitsch territory; even minor musical weaknesses will make people point the finger and yell, "CHEESY!" So that's why I'm being so damn picky about it ^^ Production is excellent... Gray takes a less-is-more approach and relies on the composition to create a full, balanced sound. Rock on Sacratus Bellator does an admiral job of handling some significant challenges -- namely giving new mojo to a very well-traveled theme and blending hardcore orchestral writing with other styles. It has a few flaws, but it's an enjoyable and creative treatment of our favorite Frog's theme song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Those that have shown they do not like this arrangement have said so in a way that they have a predetermined expectation of Frog's Theme. Akagi hit it on the head. I suppose some of the dissatisfaction here is due to the continual anticipation of the big grand melody of Frog's Theme we're all familiar of, but it just never comes. Which is a GREAT thing, GL stays consistent here in presenting a fresh new interpretation of one of the most recognizable themes in gaming. I marvel over how he managed to fit so many different sounds into this song, it's all transitioned beautifully. My favorite GrayLightning mix ever. The best remix of Frog's Theme ever created. To top it all off, the best song to appear on this site in months. Hats off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRus Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Beautiful and evocative. Gray really makes me think about music, and that's something I will always thank him and his songs for. There is a lot here to really sit back and wonder at. I let one of my friends listen to this song today and she said it made her want to write. Truly, most everything I have heard by Gray inspires creativity and deep concentration, and this song here is no exception. The song is dynamic in the greatest sense of the word, the listener will find the original Frog's theme entirely deconstructed and then rearranged in a manner that only one man I know could possibly mold with such style and musical intelligence, and I am happy he is here to share that with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arias Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Fantastic and creative arrangement. One thing I notice about your music is that while the arrangement and structural flow are all great works, they somehow lack a "climax".. Maybe it's not really that; it just feels unfulfilled. I like it, but a section with full orchestration that beautifully plays out the theme would've given it a wholesomeness; at least that's what I think. The song has a great intro, you feel like you're being led into something larger, but that something "larger" never comes; the song never "envelopes" the listener.. That's best I could put it. Still, lovely piece of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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