OCR01465 - Sonic & Knuckles "Lover Reef"

[ff6shadow]

Last time I posted was the June 05, but just found this mix today, and decided it was worth digging through my email for my password to post.

I just loved this mix. The instrumental sounds good at first, but it just seems to be somewhat . . . lacking in depth. With the vocals, it just seems to be more complete.

Every source I've heard of Pixie's vocals sound excellent, this one included. The male part had a few issues, but was still good quality compared to some of what I've heard online. As for the monotone segment, it shakes the piece up just as its begining to get too romancy and repetetive for my tastes.

Overall, while none of the vocals could have truly stood as excellent on their own, placed together like this, they blend well enough and can really get the emotion across.

I'd give it a 9/10.

Can't wait to start searching through these fives other contributions for stuff to save.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I just rediscovered this after burning myself out listening to it at least 1000 times back when it came out last year. It's too catchy not to love.

What are the chances that someone can post the tab for the super shreddin'-ass solo so I can play it for funsies? TIA & <3 this track.

I don't know shit about tabs so I might have done this wrong, but here's my attempt at tabs for the solo:

|----------------7----575-----------------------------------------------------------5--3--2---32-------------------------
|------------5-7----------757--5------575-----------------------------------------3---------3---3-----------------3--2---
|----4-----6----------------------4-67---76--7--6-4--6--4---------242-----------24----------------4-------------24------4
|------5-7------------------------------------------------4-----24---42--4----24------------------------------24---------
|--5------------------------------------------------------------------------2-------------------------------24-----------
|3-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: fixed a couple of mistakes.

[Souliarc]

Hey hey hey zirc, is that beginning synth pad a version of the patch you used in example three of your synthesis tutorial?

Just curious.

[zircon]

They are similar in construction, but not quite the same. The Lover Reef pad is from Pro-53; it's two oscs, a filter, delay, and reverb. The oscs are pulses, somewhat detuned, with the first osc having its pulse width modulated. The filter is a heavy lowpass. The synth in the tutorial is from Synth1 and uses saws instead of pulses.

[Flare4War]

I posted already when this track was first released stating how great I think it is.

Just wanted to say I still think this one is awesome I listen to it on a regular basis.

Go team.

[Indrik]

I love it overall. I personally dislike the way the 4th set of lyrics was done. I don't think it meshed well with the rest of the song, the deep voice and the way of saying those lyrics didn't fit.

However, hearing pixietricks' singing is always a pleasure, and every other segment of the song was great. The 4th segment is overlookeable because of it.

[Shonen Samurai]

I think whoever did this did a really good job, esp. the male vocalist who sings with jill "pixietricks" goldin

[Arwen]

I was of the impression that OCRemix judges tended to send creators of mixes back to improve and resubmit mixes if they were somewhat rough around the edges. I'm guessing this one "slipped through" because it is an impressive effort given it seems to have been thrown together at the last minute.

Seems a shame that more time wasn't taken to make it more polished. There's nothing terrible about this mix, although a love story in the middle of Sonic 3/Sonic and Knuckles just feels really "off" to me. Pixie is off-key (she seems to tend to start out sharp and then get on pitch for most of the notes in the song except the beginning and end "ahhs") and too loud on the harmony, shonen is okay but the production doesn't do him any favors (reverb or something might have helped his voice sound richer), and D-lux's spoken part just sounded out of place (there was a bit of an effect added to his voice but it would have helped a lot to play more with effects). GeoffreyTaucer's guitar work is about the only thing that seems spot-on.

I would love to hear an off-vocal version of this just to appreciate what sounds like an excellent instrumental track.

Something like this is hard to pull off so I don't intend to be harsh; it just seems a little out of place given the apparent insistence on polished work around here. I think this track could have been something truly spectacular had there been more time put into it--more effects for the vocals, better balancing, and more time to practice and get comfy with the song for the vocalists. As it is, it is very good all things considered, but at the same time hard for me to listen to.

[zircon]

The instrumental is available here;

http://www.zirconstudios.com/Lover%20Reef%20(Instrumental).mp3

For the record this didn't "slip past" the panel, nor does the panel (or dave) pass mixes based on effort, or how long it took for them to create. All that matters is the objective standard of quality. A great remixer could probably do something in an hour and get posted on OCR with relatively little effort, whereas someone not as talented could spent two years revising the same song and get rejected even at the end of that period.

Simply being unpolished is also not grounds for rejection... we have accepted countless mixes that had flaws and things that could be fixed easily. 9 times out of 10 it's easy to see whether a mix is YES or NO quality. The few borderline subs we get are the only ones that depend on "polish" and I don't think I'm being biasd when I say that this mix is not borderline in any area. I won't contest that it's rough around the edges (D-Lux being recorded on a $10 mic for example) but I wouldn't say it deserved a NO as a result.

[SwordBreaker]

One of my favorite vocal ReMixes ever. I really like the vibe of this remix. All the elements blend well with one another. Zircon's work blends well with Taucer's guitar. I also love the "chemistry" between Pixie and Samurai. Both have nice voices, and the somewhat cheesy lyrics works well. I won't comment on Pixie's voice since I've done that several times, but Samurai's voice...well his range isn't as high as Pixie's, yet I really dig it because it has that whole pop-rock vibe to it which suits the track well. It's like both vocalists are actually replying to each other in the song. The voices don't need any "work" or effects done of them because I feel that it'll ruin the concept of this track. I did hear that extra production work was done on the voices from Zircon, though...since Pixie recorded it via a small mic. So the quality achieved from that is quite impressive. I prefer D-Lux's part to be sung instead of the whole "monotone rap" part...it would've been even cooler if Pixie's/Samurai's voices were layered upon that part or something...yet being different is good. Electric guitar solo kicks ass.

[MechaFone]

There's a neat little story about why I love this song. What I love about it, I love the lyrics, and the duet. This is in my opinion one of the best among the growing population of vocal tracks.

[WesPip]

So, this remix has been out a pretty long time now, and I've had a chance to hear it I-dont-know-how-many-times.

After hearing it a lot, though, I understand the criticisms people were putting forward during all the Lover Reef drama. Hell, I can even agree that most of the points they made were true.

Regardless, I find the mix thoroughly enjoyable and catchy as hell.

Uhm, Hell is catchy, by the way. Apparently.

[Shonen Samurai]

Yeah, I spend a lot of my listening time with this song criticizing my voice. I'd like to say that two years have made a difference, but I've had no vocal training since then either, so it'd be fibbing of a sort.

I'm nowhere near the vocalist that Jill is--I've never claimed to be, of course--and the fact of the matter is that she's leaps and bounds beyond me in technique and ability.

That said--I'm still proud to be part of the whole thing; even if my contribution was the "least best", I still brought exactly what I had to offer to the table and I think that it works.

[RiftDoggy]

This doesn't bring out the nostalgia factor for me, but it sounds great.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Yeah, I spend a lot of my listening time with this song criticizing my voice. I'd like to say that two years have made a difference, but I've had no vocal training since then either, so it'd be fibbing of a sort.

I'm nowhere near the vocalist that Jill is--I've never claimed to be, of course--and the fact of the matter is that she's leaps and bounds beyond me in technique and ability.

That said--I'm still proud to be part of the whole thing; even if my contribution was the "least best", I still brought exactly what I had to offer to the table and I think that it works.

I'm definitely glad you were a part of it -- your contributions to the lyrics were brilliant, and I think the roughness of your voice actually adds a lot to the piece, as does the cheesiness of Steve's rap breakdown.

[Jillian Aversa]

Agreed. You're better than you think, Shonen!

[KogeJoe]

"Write your own musical platform"? What does that even mean? I suppose we should get rid of all mixes that use guitars, right? They're not "writing their own musical platform". After all how many songs are there that use guitars. And don't even get me started on orchestral remixes! That "platform" has been around for hundreds of years and people are so uncreative that they're still using it.

Man, shut the hell up. There are lots of legitimate reasons for not liking a remix, but somehow implying that we're uncreative or unoriginal is moronic and insulting. Grow up.

Ah HAH. I KNEW there was reason behind your recent rant in your private message.

Can't take criticism unless it's a GOOD review eh?

Yeah. What do I mean by write your own musical platform? It means don't ruin good music because you think you can sing and make an already good piece "better" by putting in cheesy lyrics and bad singing. What is this. American Idol?

In other words, why don't you write your own music to your own lyrics? You think you're being "creative" when you take an already written piece of music and adding in your own lyrics? How is stealing music to put in your own lyrics "creative" or "original?" There is such a thing as "remixing," and then there is shameless opportunism. Sorry, but I think I'm entitled to write in what I think, seeing as this is a "review" forum, right? Sorry, but that's the way I see it. Maybe there are people on here who wish to hear sappy lyrics mixed in with good videogame music. I'm not one of them.

Sorry, this song sounds awful. The voice is awful, the lyrics are awful. Lyrics don't instantly sound good because you're putting them to good videogame music, and sorry, but I'm not too fond of hearing people sing with their nose. You might think this is the best voice in the whole world, sorry but I think it needs improvement.

Why are you talking about guitars and symphony? What does this have to do with putting lyrics to other people's music? I can get started on "symphonic" re-mixes, a lot sound boring and unexciting. No, a piece isn't an instant ringer, and it doesn't make a re-mixer sound "creative" or "sophisticated" for pretending to write for a symphony. Not saying that all of them suck, just that most of them do. It's a turn-off to hear a played-out style rehashed. Symphony isn't bad, if you can write for it.

What is a "legitimate" reason for not liking something? Why must my reasons for not liking how a piece of music sounds be legitimized by anyone save myself? Just who do you think you are? Releasing a work out into the world, and then crying a river because someone out there doesn't like it is moronic and insulting. "How DARE you not like my piece! Garrr!!!" If you don't want people to say bad things about your work, you shouldn't be releasing them in such a public place as the INTERNET.

A person who is "grown up" can take criticism, good or bad and roll with it, instead of demanding people shut up and not speak their minds. It's the whole reason for a "review" forum.

You know what you call a place where you can only say "good" things? Communist China. Maybe if we lived there. But we don't.

Quit being such a sensitive artist.

I've heard your works. You've got some good stuff. I just don't think this is one of them. Get over it!

[DarkeSword]

Yeah. What do I mean by write your own musical platform? It means don't ruin good music because you think you can sing and make an already good piece "better" by putting in cheesy lyrics and bad singing. What is this. American Idol?

In other words, why don't you write your own music to your own lyrics? You think you're being "creative" when you take an already written piece of music and adding in your own lyrics? How is stealing music to put in your own lyrics "creative" or "original?" There is such a thing as "remixing," and then there is shameless opportunism. Sorry, but I think I'm entitled to write in what I think, seeing as this is a "review" forum, right? Sorry, but that's the way I see it. Maybe there are people on here who wish to hear sappy lyrics mixed in with good videogame music. I'm not one of them.

Sorry, but nothing we do here at OCR is considered stealing. It's perfectly fine that you don't like lyrics in video game songs, but you know what? Other people do, and other people choose to show their appreciation for video game music by interpreting it in a way that inspires them. If that inspires lyrics, well then that's what they're going to produce. You have every right in the world to give an artist a negative review but you have no right to call anyone here a thief. That is out of line and it will not be tolerated here.

What is a "legitimate" reason for not liking something? Why must my reasons for not liking how a piece of music sounds be legitimized by anyone save myself? Just who do you think you are? Releasing a work out into the world, and then crying a river because someone out there doesn't like it is moronic and insulting. "How DARE you not like my piece! Garrr!!!" If you don't want people to say bad things about your work, you shouldn't be releasing them in such a public place as the INTERNET.

You don't have to really have to "legitimize" your reasons for not liking something. Just say you don't like it. But the really issue becomes apparent when you start calling the artists "theiveing bitches" and accusing them of using the game music as a "platform" in order to build themselves up. That's not what anyone is here for, and if that's what you think then you're sadly mistaken.

A person who is "grown up" can take criticism, good or bad and roll with it, instead of demanding people shut up and not speak their minds. It's the whole reason for a "review" forum.

And the review forum is for reviews, not accusations and insults. Do it again and I will permanently ban you from these forums.

EDIT: Nevermind. Looking at your review history, I can see that you're an incredibly closed-minded individual who doesn't review songs on their own merits, but based on your opinions of their respective genres. They're incredibly abusive that don't provide anything constructive at all, save for "do it better next time" and "don't remix in this style." No place for that here. Bye.

[Liontamer]

Yeah, I'm sure KogeJoe doesn't realize the double standard in having 0 problem with enjoying and praising instrumental arrangements, but then feeling the mere presence of vocals amounted to stealing the original work and artistic grandstanding. God knows how he'd react to original video game pieces WITH vocals, but probably not well. We encourage the addition of new instruments in arranging game music, and the voice is just another instrument.

He's weird in that he believes everyone who adds vocals approaches it with the mindset of "making something better by a factor of 10" or whatever, completely not understanding the creative intent behind it, and, more importantly, not wanting to understand.

He also doesn't realize that the staff warning him about his review posts is not about the mere criticism of a piece. For this one, I thought Mike's singing was nasally, sure. Even he says that. The mixing also could have been cleaner. People can criticize the ReMixes any time. That's not the problem.

The problem is the tone of the criticism. Like DarkeSword said, there's not liking the song, then there's reaching with, I agree, moronic and insulting blanket statements like "stealing music". You can't consistently keep making those statements ad nauseum against the forum rules and expect nothing to happen. Ah well, good riddance.

[oakthielbar]

Looks to me like he may have been out of line here, but I wouldn't say that ALL of his reviews were out of line. I'm sad to see one of the few people willing to say negative things about songs here banned, but then again, I haven't read all of his reviews and he may have been the negative nancy that everyone's accusing him of being.

EDIT: Okay, I just looked through most of his first page of reviews and the vast majority were very positive. I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be banned (I mean, he said some pretty stupid stuff in this topic), but...

[DarkeSword]

Looks to me like he may have been out of line here, but I wouldn't say that ALL of his reviews were out of line. I'm sad to see one of the few people willing to say negative things about songs here banned, but then again, I haven't read all of his reviews and he may have been the negative nancy that everyone's accusing him of being.

EDIT: Okay, I just looked through most of his first page of reviews and the vast majority were very positive. I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be banned (I mean, he said some pretty stupid stuff in this topic), but...

This isn't really the place to discuss this, but look at any review of a vocal or symphonic song by him; they're all tirades against the genres, not reviews of the songs, and the tone of these reviews is consistently abusive.

Anyway let's get back on topic, shall we?

[oakthielbar]

Anyway let's get back on topic, shall we?

Fair enough!

This is an exceptionally well produced track and the female voice is very well controlled - I don't really like the male voice, though. The lyrics are much too cheesy for me, as well. Also not a fan of the spoken word section.

I'm mostly just impressed with how well this track was produced. Sounds nearly professional - the MIDIish piano was a bit eh, but that's probably the only thing I can comment on.

[Urami]

I loved this one! You should do one of Flying battery Zone! That would be cool!

[SoulinEther]

I disagree with the pretzel-makin'-machine on this one.

We've turned to ice

And it's not our way to be

So let the earth quake

And melt with me.

While I do find "and it's not our way to be" to be an interesting line, "melt with me" has that double-meaning that gives almost a sense of purpose to this song.

Me likey.

[Lucentas]

I love to see songs with vocals on this site, especially when they're as well-done and polished as this one. It does have that awesome 90's pop vibe, and yes I am just saying that because I'm a child of the 80's-90's, but I love my nostalgia. I'm not usually too fond of rapping, but as presented here I don't actually mind it so much because I love the rest of the song.