OCR01465 - Sonic & Knuckles "Lover Reef"

[Astantia]

This is the worst I have heard Miss Goldin.

I really am dissapointed, but it is still better than a lot of things I have heard.

As far as the guy goes, he isn't a trained singer, and it shows, he's not horrible, but he isn't trained to use his voice effectively. The rap isn't bad, but it's too slow to be 'normal rap' and it isn't flowing enough to be 'melodic rap.'

Guitar and Piano seem to be spot on. Overall, I would give this a 7 on the OCR scale.

On the Pixietricks scale, it is severely lower.

Edit: Pixies voice sounds flat, compared to the rest, like she's crowding the mic, maybe that's what happened?

[Jillian Aversa]

This is the worst I have heard Miss Goldin.

I really am dissapointed, but it is still better than a lot of things I have heard.

As far as the guy goes, he isn't a trained singer, and it shows, he's not horrible, but he isn't trained to use his voice effectively. The rap isn't bad, but it's too slow to be 'normal rap' and it isn't flowing enough to be 'melodic rap.'

Guitar and Piano seem to be spot on. Overall, I would give this a 7 on the OCR scale.

On the Pixietricks scale, it is severely lower.

Edit: Pixies voice sounds flat, compared to the rest, like she's crowding the mic, maybe that's what happened?

To be fair, this mix was done very quickly. Zircon actually submitted it before I had to the chance to rerecord my vocals. I wasn't happy with them because I'm not used to singing in a fast, poppy style, and I had to record them in a rush. It's definitely not my best work, but when you're collabing with four other people eager to get the mix out to the masses, that's what happens. The point was that we had an awesome time together.

[Astantia]

This is the worst I have heard Miss Goldin.

I really am dissapointed, but it is still better than a lot of things I have heard.

As far as the guy goes, he isn't a trained singer, and it shows, he's not horrible, but he isn't trained to use his voice effectively. The rap isn't bad, but it's too slow to be 'normal rap' and it isn't flowing enough to be 'melodic rap.'

Guitar and Piano seem to be spot on. Overall, I would give this a 7 on the OCR scale.

On the Pixietricks scale, it is severely lower.

Edit: Pixies voice sounds flat, compared to the rest, like she's crowding the mic, maybe that's what happened?

To be fair, this mix was done very quickly. Zircon actually submitted it before I had to the chance to rerecord my vocals. I wasn't happy with them because I'm not used to singing in a fast, poppy style, and I had to record them in a rush. It's definitely not my best work, but when you're collabing with four other people eager to get the mix out to the masses, that's what happens. The point was that we had an awesome time together.

I figured something along those lines.

I think a revamped version with better recorded vocals would be an excellent complement to that website of yours.

[Souliarc]

This piece is impressive for the overnighter it is. Take that as you will.

Pixie is an incredible singer, just not on par all the way through this one. Maybe it was a little late, dunno, but if you check her other works, she obviously has highly refined her skill.

No offense Shonen, but nice try Only DJP gets away with squeaky vocals.

The rap was quite dull. You're sharper in "Da Black Market" D-Lux. You kinda just read off the lyrics like you got called on in class.

I think the only thing that got this mix posted was companionship, but fuck it, it's his site, and I don't have to download the song again. Glad you all had fun producing it.

[zircon]

The rap was quite dull. You're sharper in "Da Black Market" D-Lux. You kinda just read off the lyrics like you got called on in class.

Steve had it the worst of anyone. He recorded that at 4 or 5AM. We had just spent the entire day walking around New York City having a blast too, so we were definitely exhausted at tha tpoint. Finally, my mic is TERRIBLE, and he had to record on that. I'm sure, given the opportunity to record 'em again, he coulda been a lot sharper, but like Jill said, that wasn't really the point with this whole thing.

Of course, I'm not saying that some of the criticisms here aren't true, just putting things in perspective

[MaGi_TekK]

I'd have to agree with some of the more negative commentary. I was totally hyped up to get a new remix featuring Pixie's vocal talents (whose 'Prayer' Zelda remix I've pretty much listened to for over a year without getting tired of) But I was aghast when I heard the vocals come on. To us real instrumentalists who can tell pitch with precision, it's just plainly out of tune, without a doubt. I was just surprised you'd let something like that slip by without fixing it first. Getting a remix out one or two days earlier isn't worth it when it's going to be listened to for many years to come. The rest of the song besides the singing is also mediocre at best, I really don't know what the fuss is about. Don't release a work or do a performance unless you're at your best. You people at Peabody Conservatory should know that more than anyone right?

[Jillian Aversa]

To us real instrumentalists who can tell pitch with precision, it's just plainly out of tune, without a doubt.

Ugh. I SAID I knew it wasn't perfect, given the circumstances. Let's hear some of your performances, how about that? I'm sure you're a superb musician.

EDIT: I withdraw the particular word I used to express my exasperation, but not the meaning behind it.

[MaGi_TekK]

To us real instrumentalists who can tell pitch with precision, it's just plainly out of tune, without a doubt.

Ugh. Fuck you. I SAID I knew it wasn't perfect, given the circumstances. Let's hear some of your performances, how about that? I'm sure you're a superb musician.

Wow let me give you one more piece of advice. Swearing at your critics isn't a sign of maturity. And I was concertmaster of my high school orchestra and second chair of my college symphony orchestra btw.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

To us real instrumentalists who can tell pitch with precision, it's just plainly out of tune, without a doubt.

Ugh. Fuck you. I SAID I knew it wasn't perfect, given the circumstances. Let's hear some of your performances, how about that? I'm sure you're a superb musician.

Wow let me give you one more piece of advice. Swearing at your critics isn't a sign of maturity.

Neither is insisting on getting in the last word after your point has already been made.

[zircon]

It's understandable why pixietricks is angry at you. The way you've written your criticism implies that you and other critics are "real instrumentalists" and she is not. The reality of the matter is that she is, in fact, a professional vocalist attending the nation's most selective conservatory for music. In other words, while you are welcome to criticize aspects of the remix, you are not welcome to cross the line and suggest that a very talented and obviously very qualified vocalist is somehow not a "real instrumentalist". It's worth noting that the recording WAS initially slightly off pitch, but that was corrected and run past NUMEROUS different people, none of whom found a problem with it. I was one of those people.

Also, we didn't rush it just to "get the mix out a few days earlier". This is simply false. I put together the mix from all the component parts that were given to me, or that I created, and tweaked them until I felt that the mix was ready for submission. Being a judge and an experienced ReMixer I am well-versed with the standards, and being a professional musician myself I have a good sense of what sounds good and what doesn't. At the stage we were at, I felt that while additional work COULD have been done, the mix in its current state was more than adequate for submission. Tons of ReMixes on this site could be improved in some format. Lazy mixing/instrumentation, "off" notes, bad endings, sloppy performances, I could point out hundreds of ReMixes that could have been improved with a few more days of work.

However, I, along with hundreds of thousands of other listeners, am quite capable of listening to these imperfect pieces of music and greatly enjoying them. The minor flaws in this mix should not merit baseless criticism. You don't like it? Ok. We get that. Go ahead and even explain WHY you didn't like it. Other people in this thread had some beefs with different parts of the song, and there's not a problem there. Flat-out insulting the credentials of the people involved (when they are probably greater than your own) IS a problem, especially when you come up with misinformation as well.

I won't tolerate any more senseless flaming here. Restrict your criticism to constructive only, and if you have any additional issues, take it up in PM or through some other channel of communication. The Reviews forum is not the place to do it. I believe you have warned before for this kind of behavior, so this shouldn't be new to you.

[StarBLaSt]

Restrict your criticism to constructive only, and if you have any additional issues, take it up in PM or through some other channel of communication. The Reviews forum is not the place to do it. I believe you have warned before for this kind of behavior, so this shouldn't be new to you.

It is quite the double standard to require negative reviews to be "constructive" while praise can be inane and trivial. Just because you don't agree with an opinion, you have no right to require that it be asserted differently from yours to be "acceptable discourse".

You are quite obviously letting your bias toward this song affect your "moderator" judgment. Not cool. In addition, your assertion one should not disparage someone's credentials is hilariously ineffective given the not-so-subtle credential insult you included in parentheses. Hilarious! And accusing folks of flaming when the only thing that could rightly qualify as a "flame" was a certain "fuck you" from a certain thin-skinned individual? Questionable.

That being said, I found the remix to be mediocre at best, with pixietricks barely saving the mix with her obviously tired and out-of-tune voice. It's a testament to her talent that even under adverse conditions she can still swing many people into enjoying a song that would otherwise be devoid of talent.

The guitar work was predictable, the mixing was puerile, the recording was so-so.

Since this must be constructive per the order of zircon, i offer these suggestions:

Guys, sometimes too many hands spoil the pot. A collab sometimes isnt as good as one mixer by himself. Know when to say "hmmm maybe we dont need to include that hilariously cheesy chanting voice just so so-and-so feels included".

Guys, know how to take criticism. When you submit a mix that is "just for fun" be sure that folks will still grade it as harshly as they would a real remix. Answering criticism with "Fuck you" or "well, mixing and production isnt the point of the mix!" won't help.

Pixie, being prolific with your work is great, but still, quality is better than quantity. Also, what's up with the harshness and bitterness toward the negative singing criticism? I suppose it can only spring from lack of confidence, but I assure you, you have nothing to be unconfident about.

All in all, you guys can do better, and should.

[The Instrument of GAWD]

Sorry that I can't be Internet Cool and say I hated this, but I liked this one. Even if it does almost sound like that one song, Tom's Diner or whatever it was.

The vocals that Shonen and Pixie provided fitted well with the lyrics. D's vocals made me think even more that this was a song from the early 90's, which was alright in my book.

All in all, good job guys. Even if it was a whole-hearted, halfassed attempt! Call me nuts, but I can almost imagine the fun you guys had before you put this together.

[zircon]

It is quite the double standard to require negative reviews to be "constructive" while praise can be inane and trivial. Just because you don't agree with an opinion, you have no right to require that it be asserted differently from yours to be "acceptable discourse".

This is common policy in the ReViews forum. If you don't like it, I don't know what else to tell you except this is how it has been run (primarily by Darkesword, I might add) for quite awhile now. You can call it a double standard, but "pointless" or trivial/inane praise is quite simply harmless whereas baseless criticism or flaming is not. I have no problem with anyone not liking any aspect of this mix. For instance, I didn't chastise the person who said the drums didn't fit. I disagree with him, but he's free to say that. On the other hand, implying that the people involved are not "real instrumentalists" and that we have no sense of pitch is not a criticism of the MIX, it's a criticism of US, and an obviously untrue one.

edit: Anyway, look, I'm just trying to keep things civil here. If we could move past this I would appreciate it. Again if you have a problem with something here I encourage you to PM a moderator (or if it's about ME, pm another moderator).

[Jillian Aversa]

I think our biggest mistake was submitting this remix to OCR.

That night at zircon's place is basically sacred in my eyes. There is an inexplicable bond that arose from working on this song together, and I guess in our enthusiasm, we wished to share that with the community! Heaven forbid!

Unfortunately, we forgot that the community is comprised largely of self-proclaimed musical/internet geniuses who feel the need to impress others with their ability to bash not just the music, but the people themselves.

I'm disappointed. Don't know if I'll even bother submitting any more music to this site.

[MaGi_TekK]

On the other hand, implying that the people involved are not "real instrumentalists" and that we have no sense of pitch is not a criticism of the MIX, it's a criticism of US, and an obviously untrue one.

Zircon I think you totally misunderstood the context in which I was using the term 'real' instrumentalist. I meant that to mean people who 'really' play instruments who are familiar with concepts like musical pitch and have a discerning ear with absolutely no intent of implying that you guys aren't real musicians or something of that sort. It wasn't a jab at any of you and should have been read without any notion of being sardonic. Sorry you chose to view it that way. And you know, I was trying to temper my negativity by starting out with giving Pixie a compliment. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just giving an honest opinion which should not have to be constructive in any way. Trying to control others' speech especially when it is regarding you personally amounts to dictatorship.

[Aki Kitsune]

I love this piece! Why else would I burn it onto a cd? Sure, I also have the instrumental version but that's because I like trying to sing it myself too. The main guy's vocals is what I had problems with but over time they have become an aquired taste. Oh and I'm trying to get my female friend to sing this piece with me sometime.

[lady zelda]

It's perfectly understandable if you don't like a mix. I reiterate: perfectly understandable. But I don't understand why some ppl can't just say they don't like it, justify why, and leave it at that. I really think it is unecessary to be all anal about it, I mean, ppl mix for fun on this site, there's no profit or monetary gain in any way for the mixers. Only the personal glory of knowing that they completed a work of art. And really, I think anybody who put in time and effort of making a mix that was actually accepted onto this site should deserve at least some degree of praise. The mix may not be your favorite, you may hate it, but I think some ppl are just excessively harsh...I mean, what's the point of being that way?

I know this isn't the first time somebody has brought the exact same thing up, but I think that we may be losing some great mixers on this site if we keep bashing like this. And to be perfectly honest, perhaps this wasn't the best vocal mix by pixietricks, but ask yourself before you bash: could I do any better myself? Do I know anything about singing? About the technique e.g. posture, control of the anatomy of the sound, expression in tone, anything else I don't even have time to list...?

Just a thought. I'm sorry if this is completely off topic for a review thread, but I felt a need to say this in a thread like this. If not, sincere apologies and feel free to move it if so need be.

Enough said.

[Linearity]

Folks, calm down. Old video game music is not something to get in painful arguments about. My normal friends make fun of me for this sort of thing.

The swiftness with which this song was put together shows a little. I can't put my finger on what it is, and that's because it's such a good piece. Good mixing and composition in the first sense of the word: the pieces fit together nicely and create a full soundscape. It sounds like there are some minute gaps in that fullness, but it's more subjective than anything I could name.

Now, more importantly, it's a nice, warm, little vocal version of Lava Reef Zone. That's from a video game, did I mention that? Does it really matter how good you think the vocals are when they are obviously sufficient to make a vocal version of Lava Reef Zone? We've grown accustomed to the idea of game remixes, but take a step back, cool your jets, and realize what how cool that is.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

That night at zircon's place is basically sacred in my eyes. There is an inexplicable bond that arose from working on this song together.

Abso-fuckin'-lutely.

I'm disappointed. Don't know if I'll even bother submitting any more music to this site.

You are well within your rights to make that decision, but I hope you will reconsider. Feedback for this has been more positive than negative, and for what it's worth, I think your performance in this mix (and all your other mixes) was absolutely beautiful.

EDIT: Thanks, linearity. That needed to be said.

[DarkeSword]

It is quite the double standard to require negative reviews to be "constructive" while praise can be inane and trivial. Just because you don't agree with an opinion, you have no right to require that it be asserted differently from yours to be "acceptable discourse".

Absolutey correct. There has been an historic double standard in review threads because artists understandably don't like like negative feedback without elaboration. The thing is, the listener doesn't have to be constructive. A review thread is for posting what you thought about a song. If I don't like a song, I can post "This is terrible. It sucks." That's actually acceptable, even if an artist doesn't like that. The artist can even say to me ,"Can you elaborate on that?" and if I choose to, I will. If I choose not to, I won't, and an artist can just disregard my thoughts.

I've done that a few times myself with negative reviews.

The real issue that we should always keep in mind is that we should never insult a person for their work. Negative feedback should always be directed towards the piece and performance, not the person. As artists, we need to be able to separate ourselves from our work when reading negative feedback.

I realize that this a lot harder to do when you're a singer. A criticism of a performance feels like a criticism of one's person. But as artists, we can't let these things get to us and make us mad, or drive us away from the site and what we do here.

Pixie, I realize it's a review thread for a mix that you took part in, but responding to criticism with profanity has no place here in the forum. Keep your cool, and think about what you're saying before you hit that submit button.

Magi_Tekk: OCR is a dictatorship. It always has been, and it always will be. We won't control people's speech, but we will step in and moderate when necessary.

This is all I'm going to say on the matter, which, in the context of this thread, should be dropped. Any other arguments should be taken to PM. Thanks.

[Global-Trance]

Lots of bickering I see.

I'm an elitist DJ, but come on, I thought that was fun for what it was. I thought it was cute.

[debeerguy007]

Ok Boys and Girls it's time for the Drunken Spy to put in his $0.02 into the matter.

I think that everybody involved in this remix did a fantastic job on it and should be commended for their efforts, especially given the fact that most of the groundwork, from what I hear, was done in one night. ONE F*#$* NIGHT!!!!

Are there flaws here and there? YES

but am I gonna cry and shoot myself over them. NO

Despite these facts I appreciate the craft and skills necessary to pull off what I believe is one of the finest, if not THE FINEST collaborative efforts I've seen come out of the OverClocked Remix.

Now with that said, I now say this:

Disagree with me and I will personally tackle your mailbox...

[PlastikBag]

Edit: Pretty much a re-review. I have to say that I've listened to this a bit more and it grew on me a good deal. It has very good production for how quickly it was thrown together, and it's just good cheesy fun.

[WesPip]

One thing that bothered me in the WIP stages and still does now, and I suppose this would be directed towards Shonen, is "unthaw". I know it's a small thing and I'm being anal, but I cringe a little every time I hear it.

Aside from that, as has been said, the vocals aren't perfect, but the thing is, that also lends a certain human quality to the song and shows that you guys actually had fun making the mix. Chances are, if vocals are perfect, they were done in many takes, and were, as such, not any fun to do whatsoever. For an upbeat, kinda "poppy" song like this, it's good to know the people making it enjoyed themselves.

Oh, and as has been said, if you were being serious pixie, chill out a little. I understand why you'd get upset, but that's no reason to punish the large part of the community, the ones that offer constructive criticisms actually based on something, and those that ENJOY your music.

[Upthorn]

Edit: Added stuff on the top so the Recent Comments" bit (scroll up from the link) wouldn't make it looks like someone was hating on it.

I enjoyed this mix greatly.

The following is a quote.

I'd have to agree with some of the more negative commentary. I was totally hyped up to get a new remix featuring Pixie's vocal talents (whose 'Prayer' Zelda remix I've pretty much listened to for over a year without getting tired of) But I was aghast when I heard the vocals come on. To us real instrumentalists who can tell pitch with precision, it's just plainly out of tune, without a doubt. I was just surprised you'd let something like that slip by without fixing it first. Getting a remix out one or two days earlier isn't worth it when it's going to be listened to for many years to come. The rest of the song besides the singing is also mediocre at best, I really don't know what the fuss is about. Don't release a work or do a performance unless you're at your best. You people at Peabody Conservatory should know that more than anyone right?

Your first mistake here, was making the pompous assertion that voice is not a real instrument.

Voice is one of the most powerful, and most difficult instruments to learn, and requires much greater pitch discrepancy than any other instrument to use properly. This is because instruments that you play make notes in preset intervals. Voice has a greater freedom of range, but the tradeoff is that it requires impeccable precision to sing with notable skill.

Your second mistake was completely missing the point. The mistakes were not left in because it was rushed to get out. The mistakes were left in for authenticity. This mix was not even planned before the meetup happened, and was 90% done the next morning. That's something special, and putting make up over it would kill its beauty and power.

One thing that bothered me in the WIP stages and still does now, and I suppose this would be directed towards Shonen, is "unthaw". I know it's a small thing and I'm being anal, but I cringe a little every time I hear it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=unthaw

The rap isn't bad, but it's too slow to be 'normal rap' and it isn't flowing enough to be 'melodic rap.'

I don't think of it as rap. I think of it more as a lyric recitation. The important things there are feeling and clarity.