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It varies.

C-stick has a lot of technical stuff behind it. You can use c-stick up to do up+A in the air without wasting the second jump that usually gets eaten up when you tilt up on the stick. Also you can do dashing short hop down A moves (like spikes) without losing momentum. Try running, short hopping and then doing down A and compare it to c-stick down. If you c-stick down you can keep the control stick tilted to keep your momentum going. If you press down to do down+A, it cuts your speed drastically. I like using the c-stick for these things, but I won't use it to spam smash attacks. Using it for the former reasons is just using it smart. Spamming smash attacks is not.

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Wondering what ya'll thoughts are on using the C-stick to fight in Melee?

It depends on what type of using the C-stick you're talking about. For aerials, the C-stick is very useful as G-T said, because it allows you to perform up, back and down airs without losing momentum, giving you complete control of the control stick while performing the aerial.

Or you might be referring to how a lot of new players discover the C-stick and do nothing but repeated smash attacks. I'm actually kind of glad this happens, because there are tons and tons of people who find out about competitive Smash and think it's cool so they learn all the advanced techniques and try to play just like the pros they see in videos. They will do wavedashes and dash dances and such, but they don't know why they are useful, why they are doing it. They think that technical skills like wavedashing and shuffling are everything, and they think that's what seperates pros from everyone else. The truth is that things like mindgames, predicting your opponent, and making yourself unpredictable are way more important than technical skills. And that said, technical skills are still really important to playing competitively. They forget that they should be watching their opponent's character and concentrating and their opponent, not themselves.

They get frustrated because they're doing all these advanced techniques they had to practice (well I wouldn't say they're doing them, because they aren't using them correctly at all), and they're being countered by the most simple tactics/moves. They have to realize that these advanced techniques are not meant to replace anything. They are simply additions to what options you already have (that's why they are still very important, because having more options is definetely advantagous, and having less then your opponent is NOT. Plus it adds a lot more depth to the game). Playing Smash is like playing Rock Paper Scissors somewhat, because different moves counter each other. The key thing here is that even simple moves have their place in this, because sometimes they counter more advanced ones.

If you watch videos oef Ken closely, you can see that he always does what is most appropriate for the situation he's in, regardless of how advanced it is. He has no concern for looking flashy. While he's definetely not the only one who does this, he is very good at it, and that's one of the main reasons he is so good. Same goes for all the other top professionals, and I think especially good examples are Japanese players like Masashi.

Anyway, if you are in this stage like I was where you're getting beat by someone who uses incredibly stupid tactics, which is what happened to me when I first got into competitive Smash (well, I wasn't getting BEAT, it's just that I wasn't doing nearly as well as I should have been :wink: ) then just taking a step back and really watching what your opponent is doing and thinking of what ways you can counter it should set you on track right away. But if your really must know, probably the most effective way to counter constant c-stick smashing is with sheild-grabbing. Even if people in this stage know this, they sometimes want to only counter with advanced techniques, because they feel that the advanced techniques should win because they are difficult, and they took practice to learn. This is NOT they way to play (notice the emphasis on "NOT"). Sheild-grabbing counters this tactic, so if you know they are going to do it, and you know you can counter it with sheild-grabbing (there are quite a few other ways to counter, too, and I think in certain situations certain smash attacks will push you too far away to grab, depending on what character you play), then use it. Every time. They should not be hitting you with this when you know they are going to do it, and you know how to counter it. Eventually they will be forced to move on, to get better.

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Using c-stick for aerials is just smart. It just allows so much better spacing and control while doing aerials.

I've been a long time player without using most advanced techniques. I've used short-hops, l-cancels, and directional influence naturally- but some things aren't so intuitive, such as wavedashing, wavelanding, waveshielding, ledgedashing, missle cancels, and the like.

I've done VERY well without them- but I can't ignore their usefulness. After practicing alot to get the moves themselves down, I've just got to learn how to work them smoothly into how I play. I find that this part of learning advanced techniques is most of the work.

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Maybe I'm shortchanging myself but I really don't see myself as having the kind of patience or dedication necessary for learning advanced techniques and applying them in-game.

I do prefer, as stated before, to keep my distance and wither my opponent down with ranged attacks and thrown objects, moving in for the kill when the damage is sufficient.

Of course using the right move at the right time is key; even so I still hold to my mantra that you can beat a flashy opponent without too much effort or muscle-destroying thumbwork if you bide your time and play things right. After all he who hesitates is lost but he who attacks without a plan is equally susceptible to failure.

In any event the computer can still whip my ass but I'm learning how to at least stay on my feet. Human players are much easier because however many skills they have most tend to have a set repertoire and a pattern of attacks they like to rely on (much like bosses in Megaman). Figuring out their preferences and breaking them is a step towards becoming a stronger player.

And for the record there aren't really any tiers to behold in Smash; in the right hands a supposedly weak character can dominate the match from start to finish.

(Jiggly haters, try using Pound a few times to break your opponents up and set them up for stronger smash attacks and throws. Pichu decriers, learn the power of the traveling Thunderbolt. It saves the little guy some pain and interdicts players quite nicely when executed properly. And those of you who think Kirby is weak, well, he is, but he can deal out a lot of damage in a relatively short amount of time despite the low power of his hits. He excels at knockback as a result.)

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In any event the computer can still whip my ass but I'm learning how to at least stay on my feet. Human players are much easier because however many skills they have most tend to have a set repertoire and a pattern of attacks they like to rely on (much like bosses in Megaman). Figuring out their preferences and breaking them is a step towards becoming a stronger player.

Level 9s are a joke in Smash compared to real players. Level 9s don't even block really except for the consistent power shielding to reflect like 90% of the projectiles. I'd say practice against level 9s until you consider any of them to be a joke because in the long run, human players have far far far far far more potential to be dangerous. Only when you can whip on level 9s would I consider learning the advanced techniques. By then you can play smart enough to use them.

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I agree, I think a person should play until they can easily and consistantly win against lvl 9s with most characters against most characters. Playing against comps mostly teaches a person speed and reaction, or how to exploit the AI...

but anyway, I think it is really important to have a really solid, fast paced game before trying even faster techniques myself.

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I love SSMB and i'm sure i'll love SSBB, but i'm sure i'd repeatedly do awfully online due to the games absurdly large following.

If were lucky they will have a good online setup. maybe with a ranking system, so you could be able to play with people of your level. Then people like Ken, could get challenged by everyone, to see who is the real master.

Nintendo could do so much with SSBB online.

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I love SSMB and i'm sure i'll love SSBB, but i'm sure i'd repeatedly do awfully online due to the games absurdly large following.

If were lucky they will have a good online setup. maybe with a ranking system, so you could be able to play with people of your level. Then people like Ken, could get challenged by everyone, to see who is the real master.

Nintendo could do so much with SSBB online.

SSBB online accompanied with a good online pokemon game could possibly take away some of the WOW players.

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Maybe they can have online play for SSB64 too...

After all these years of play with both Melee and 64, I still like the N64 Smash Bros a lot better. I mean sure, Melee has great new characters and modes, gorgeous graphics and awesome speed and customization; but its lost some of the spirit of the game.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I prefer the polygonal little guys with their quirky and shifty animations, and highly unrealistic proportions. Somethiong about SSB64 really strikes me as awesome and I don't get that vibe from SSBM. If they can incorporate nline play into the Virtuyal Console, I'll be doing my online Smashing on 64 a lot more than I will in SSBB.

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Maybe they can have online play for SSB64 too...

After all these years of play with both Melee and 64, I still like the N64 Smash Bros a lot better. I mean sure, Melee has great new characters and modes, gorgeous graphics and awesome speed and customization; but its lost some of the spirit of the game.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I prefer the polygonal little guys with their quirky and shifty animations, and highly unrealistic proportions. Somethiong about SSB64 really strikes me as awesome and I don't get that vibe from SSBM. If they can incorporate nline play into the Virtuyal Console, I'll be doing my online Smashing on 64 a lot more than I will in SSBB.

I know what you mean man, one of the first things I DL on Virtual Console is SSB64.

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Maybe they can have online play for SSB64 too...

After all these years of play with both Melee and 64, I still like the N64 Smash Bros a lot better. I mean sure, Melee has great new characters and modes, gorgeous graphics and awesome speed and customization; but its lost some of the spirit of the game.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I prefer the polygonal little guys with their quirky and shifty animations, and highly unrealistic proportions. Somethiong about SSB64 really strikes me as awesome and I don't get that vibe from SSBM. If they can incorporate nline play into the Virtuyal Console, I'll be doing my online Smashing on 64 a lot more than I will in SSBB.

I know what you mean man, one of the first things I DL on Virtual Console is SSB64.

So I'm not alone! I love the 64 verson. Always have preferred it over Melee(my friends think I'm crazy).

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I love SSMB and i'm sure i'll love SSBB, but i'm sure i'd repeatedly do awfully online due to the games absurdly large following.

If were lucky they will have a good online setup. maybe with a ranking system, so you could be able to play with people of your level. Then people like Ken, could get challenged by everyone, to see who is the real master.

Nintendo could do so much with SSBB online.

SSBB online accompanied with a good online pokemon game could possibly take away some of the WOW players.

I just hope they don't have huge cheating problems if they have rankings, like they do with Halo 2 and other games. After Bungie reset the levels, everyone pretty much realized that they don't mean anything.

Hopefully SSBB will have large tournaments online... that would be awesome, even though I'd be killed.

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This is off the topic of Brawl but this is the SSB thread to I thought I might as well post this...

Super Smash Flash over at www.mcleodgaming.com

It's pretty awesome, and you can be charactors like Sonic, Cloud, Chrono, and even Inuyasha (some unlocking is required, however).

OLD. This has been on Newgrounds forever.

But its is pretty cool. Not a stunning example, but very cool nonetheless.

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