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What happened to Smash Brothers? In the first game, it was just fun. Now we have clones and overused franchises, psychos talking about "pro play" and unequal characters. I'm sorry, but sometimes I feel like Melee was just a moneymaking opportunity. I mean, Pichu? Young Link? Dr. Mario?? Are you serious? How are these seperate characters? (When the heck was Dr. Mario an iconic enough game to merit a Smash Bros char, clone or not?) And I know a lot of you won't like hearing this, but Marth and Roy were definitely in there just to promote Fire Emblem (which is funny, because FE is so good that it didn't need the promotion). Sure, Link can get away with using a sword, he's Link. But bringing in two characters with (relative) 6-foot wingspans is cheap. These five are characters that should have NEVER EXISTED. (Falco and Ganondorf, at least with their current movesets, probably shouldn't be in there either, but I'll be conservative.)

Even worse is all this inequality. I am so sick of everyone on earth playing as Fox/Falco, or Marth, or whoever else you guys consider good. In the original, everyone was about equal. Admittedly, a few like Falcon and Ness were somewhat better, but it wasn't outrageously imbalanced like it is today. I could play as Yoshi or Kirby (easily my two best, I whupped up on people with my signature Red Yoshi) and not get laughed at and subsequently clobbered.

The problem is, Brawl is already going to be no better. They already revealed a clone: Zero Suit Samus. I am pissed about her creation and I'm surprised more people aren't. What I can't understand is that you guys are actually clamoring for her and WW Link and the like; you want each character to have 3 or 4 different versions rather than some variety and originality? Don't sell us so short! I, personally, would rather see completely new people, but maybe I'm just a crazy person.

Oh, and as for Snake... Give. Me. A. Break. He does not fit in the game, the overall feel of Smash Bros whatsoever. What's he gonna do, sneak up behind Mario and slit his throat? Snake is in the game for one reason alone, and it begins with an $.

As a random final note, I'd also like more variety in the stages... having 5 Mario stages is kinda lame.

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you have to take into account that this game is basically made for nintendo fans. and there are japanese and american nintendo fans. they'll throw samus in there for the americans and fire emblem charecters in there for the japanese. and its not fair to say that melee was just a money making opportunity. it was obviously the best selling game so if they were in it for promotion and money why didnt they make 4 more smash brothers during gamecube's 6 year run?

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I don't know about Snake being in Brawl for the money.

I mean Hideo Kojima begged for Snake to be in Melee.

But couldn't because the game was already at a certain point in which he could not be put in. So now Snake gets his break in Brawl.

Since Melee is the number 1 selling game for GC, what if Snake did make it in Melee?

Still would be a hit.

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SSB is like the definition of pure fun.

The game is timeless and the franchise will live on to be a classic. Just for fun my friend and I popped in the original just to see it in action again. It was freaking fun. SSBM is also freaking fun. I have no doubt that SSBB will be just as fun.

I hope in SSBB they bring back the character specific introductions again. Seeing Samus walk out of a save pod, or pikachu flying out of a pokeball was freaking awesome.

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What happened to Smash Brothers? In the first game, it was just fun. Now we have clones and overused franchises, psychos talking about "pro play" and unequal characters. I'm sorry, but sometimes I feel like Melee was just a moneymaking opportunity. I mean, Pichu? Young Link? Dr. Mario?? Are you serious? How are these seperate characters? (When the heck was Dr. Mario an iconic enough game to merit a Smash Bros char, clone or not?) And I know a lot of you won't like hearing this, but Marth and Roy were definitely in there just to promote Fire Emblem (which is funny, because FE is so good that it didn't need the promotion). Sure, Link can get away with using a sword, he's Link. But bringing in two characters with (relative) 6-foot wingspans is cheap. These five are characters that should have NEVER EXISTED. (Falco and Ganondorf, at least with their current movesets, probably shouldn't be in there either, but I'll be conservative.)

Even worse is all this inequality. I am so sick of everyone on earth playing as Fox/Falco, or Marth, or whoever else you guys consider good. In the original, everyone was about equal. Admittedly, a few like Falcon and Ness were somewhat better, but it wasn't outrageously imbalanced like it is today. I could play as Yoshi or Kirby (easily my two best, I whupped up on people with my signature Red Yoshi) and not get laughed at and subsequently clobbered.

The problem is, Brawl is already going to be no better. They already revealed a clone: Zero Suit Samus. I am pissed about her creation and I'm surprised more people aren't. What I can't understand is that you guys are actually clamoring for her and WW Link and the like; you want each character to have 3 or 4 different versions rather than some variety and originality? Don't sell us so short! I, personally, would rather see completely new people, but maybe I'm just a crazy person.

Oh, and as for Snake... Give. Me. A. Break. He does not fit in the game, the overall feel of Smash Bros whatsoever. What's he gonna do, sneak up behind Mario and slit his throat? Snake is in the game for one reason alone, and it begins with an $.

As a random final note, I'd also like more variety in the stages... having 5 Mario stages is kinda lame.

who the heck are you and why are you an idiot

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What happened to Smash Brothers? In the first game, it was just fun. Now we have clones and overused franchises, psychos talking about "pro play" and unequal characters. I'm sorry, but sometimes I feel like Melee was just a moneymaking opportunity. I mean, Pichu? Young Link? Dr. Mario?? Are you serious? How are these seperate characters? (When the heck was Dr. Mario an iconic enough game to merit a Smash Bros char, clone or not?) And I know a lot of you won't like hearing this, but Marth and Roy were definitely in there just to promote Fire Emblem (which is funny, because FE is so good that it didn't need the promotion). Sure, Link can get away with using a sword, he's Link. But bringing in two characters with (relative) 6-foot wingspans is cheap. These five are characters that should have NEVER EXISTED. (Falco and Ganondorf, at least with their current movesets, probably shouldn't be in there either, but I'll be conservative.)

Even worse is all this inequality. I am so sick of everyone on earth playing as Fox/Falco, or Marth, or whoever else you guys consider good. In the original, everyone was about equal. Admittedly, a few like Falcon and Ness were somewhat better, but it wasn't outrageously imbalanced like it is today. I could play as Yoshi or Kirby (easily my two best, I whupped up on people with my signature Red Yoshi) and not get laughed at and subsequently clobbered.

The problem is, Brawl is already going to be no better. They already revealed a clone: Zero Suit Samus. I am pissed about her creation and I'm surprised more people aren't. What I can't understand is that you guys are actually clamoring for her and WW Link and the like; you want each character to have 3 or 4 different versions rather than some variety and originality? Don't sell us so short! I, personally, would rather see completely new people, but maybe I'm just a crazy person.

Oh, and as for Snake... Give. Me. A. Break. He does not fit in the game, the overall feel of Smash Bros whatsoever. What's he gonna do, sneak up behind Mario and slit his throat? Snake is in the game for one reason alone, and it begins with an $.

As a random final note, I'd also like more variety in the stages... having 5 Mario stages is kinda lame.

lol, feel better now?

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What happened to Smash Brothers? In the first game, it was just fun. 1.Now we have clones and overused franchises, psychos talking about "pro play" and unequal characters. I'm sorry, but sometimes I feel like Melee was just a moneymaking opportunity. 2.I mean, Pichu? Young Link? Dr. Mario?? Are you serious? How are these seperate characters? (When the heck was Dr. Mario an iconic enough game to merit a Smash Bros char, clone or not?) And I know a lot of you won't like hearing this, but Marth and Roy were definitely in there just to promote Fire Emblem (which is funny, because FE is so good that it didn't need the promotion). Sure, Link can get away with using a sword, he's Link. But bringing in two characters with (relative) 6-foot wingspans is cheap. These five are characters that should have NEVER EXISTED. (Falco and Ganondorf, at least with their current movesets, probably shouldn't be in there either, but I'll be conservative.)

3.Even worse is all this inequality. I am so sick of everyone on earth playing as Fox/Falco, or Marth, or whoever else you guys consider good. In the original, everyone was about equal. Admittedly, a few like Falcon and Ness were somewhat better, but it wasn't outrageously imbalanced like it is today. I could play as Yoshi or Kirby (easily my two best, I whupped up on people with my signature Red Yoshi) and not get laughed at and subsequently clobbered.

4.The problem is, Brawl is already going to be no better. They already revealed a clone: Zero Suit Samus. I am pissed about her creation and I'm surprised more people aren't. What I can't understand is that you guys are actually clamoring for her and WW Link and the like; you want each character to have 3 or 4 different versions rather than some variety and originality? Don't sell us so short! I, personally, would rather see completely new people, but maybe I'm just a crazy person.

5.Oh, and as for Snake... Give. Me. A. Break. He does not fit in the game, the overall feel of Smash Bros whatsoever. What's he gonna do, sneak up behind Mario and slit his throat? Snake is in the game for one reason alone, and it begins with an $.

As a random final note, I'd also like more variety in the stages... 6.having 5 Mario stages is kinda lame.

Lemme start off with an lol, ok now that I'm ready...

1. People where playing tournament smash and talking about it also, get over it, if people want to play a game competitively and talk about it they can

2. Clone, you might as well call Ryu and Ken the same character. Sure they look like their original guys, but play with them and notice they are the same BASE character, with different effects for people with different tastes

3. Don't even start on that shit. Every single fighting game has characters that are better than others, when you put in more characters you start to see how much better they are than the others. The game went from like 12 fighters to 25. Every fighter has a god tier and a mid tier and a low tier and everything in between, stop complaining. People don't all just play with the best characters on tier lists just to piss you off, they do it because they like the character

4. Oh wow. You don't even know if the game is good yet, IT'S NOT OUT AND NOT COMING OUT FOR A WHILE. Zero Suit Samus has been stated as having a completely different move set because she loses her missiles and guns and such. WW Link can also play very different from Link, you don't know.

5. Snake is in the game because Hideo called up his friend who happened to be the director of SSBM (also current director of SSBB). He said he really loved SSB and was wondering if somehow they could place Snake in it. Masahiro was all for it, but they where too far ahead in the developement process. He didn't think he would direct the next Smash game so he didn't make any promises. Now that he is, he was all for Snake being in the game, who wouldn't want another gaming icon in their game? Also, he's not going to do that stuff, as it is a "kid friendly" game. He's going to use explosives like C4's, grenades, and stuff like that

6. Mario is Nintendo's main character. In a game about Nintendo's main characters fighting, it's fitting that he has the most stages, and either way, they're fun for the most part

And while I'm on SSBB, which I'm not on very often, I love what they're doing. It's gotten much more into the "this is on the level of Street Fighter." It can still be that fun party game, but tournaments and the competitive scene are being heavily noticed as it seems, which should lead to less balance issues and such. Also using the Wii online service, the game can be patched up as needed, if needed. It won't be perfectly balanced, but it'll be damn good compared to SSBM

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The problem is, Brawl is already going to be no better. They already revealed a clone: Zero Suit Samus. I am pissed about her creation and I'm surprised more people aren't. What I can't understand is that you guys are actually clamoring for her and WW Link and the like;

Lol, take another look at the second SSBB teaser released: Zero Suit Samus is no clone; her move set is completely different from the original. Sakurai says after his character introduction for Zero Suit Samus, "And don't worry—you'll still be able to play as standard Samus, too." Meaning that they will most likely be separate characters!

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OK, fair enough. I knew I was going to get shot at from multiple directions. But I do feel better after getting that out there (in regards to Penfold) :razz:

I will concede you have some good points, EazyP. I suppose a fighting game is what it is, with inequality and tournament-talking. And it is true that I have no knowledge of what the new characters will be like. (WW Link and Z-Samus could be very different from their counterparts, I suppose you're right... though Samus fighting Samus bothers me, I guess it makes an interesting game.) I'm still mad about Marth and Roy, but I can let it go, cheap-shot swords and all. Switching them out would be cool... I mean, there's a lot of FE games, and many chars are somewhat similar... it would keep it interesting. (Lyn and Eliwood? Eirika and Ephraim? Anyone? Bueller?).

Buuut, I'm not giving up on two characters that I consider the epitome of worthlessness. It's fun conversation anyway.

Here's my legitimate argument against Dr. Mario: Luigi already exists. He is a Mario clone BUT he has always been similar in ability to Mario in every game he's been in. Yet with his funky moveset, he's really not a Mario clone at all; similar yet very different in playing style (Luigi is one thing I applaud the Melee creators on). All I'm saying is, regardless of how good Doc is as a fighter, when Luigi exists, do we really need another Mario double gumming up a character slot? Especially from a game that isn't quite "iconic"? (And no, I don't count Wario as a Mario clone at all, I'm sure he will be very different.)

And as for Pichu... Y-Link is noticeably different yet equal to normal Link. Pichu is just plain worse. And no one likes Baby Pokemon.

On an unrelated note, anyone else bothered by the fact that in Melee, Pikachu or even Pichu can defeat Mewtwo, which could never happen in the Pokemon world?...

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I'm still mad about Marth and Roy, but I can let it go, cheap-shot swords and all. Switching them out would be cool... I mean, there's a lot of FE games, and many chars are somewhat similar... it would keep it interesting. (Lyn and Eliwood? Eirika and Ephraim? Anyone? Bueller?).

if you were good at it you wouldnt have a problem with them

Here's my legitimate argument against Dr. Mario: Luigi already exists. He is a Mario clone BUT he has always been similar in ability to Mario in every game he's been in. Yet with his funky moveset, he's really not a Mario clone at all; similar yet very different in playing style (Luigi is one thing I applaud the Melee creators on). All I'm saying is, regardless of how good Doc is as a fighter, when Luigi exists, do we really need another Mario double gumming up a character slot? Especially from a game that isn't quite "iconic"? (And no, I don't count Wario as a Mario clone at all, I'm sure he will be very different.)

there are very distinct differences between the doc and mario

I guess let's yell at the creators for giving players even more of a choice of exactly what kind of character they want

On an unrelated note, anyone else bothered by the fact that in Melee, Pikachu or even Pichu can defeat Mewtwo, which could never happen in the Pokemon world?...

good god...

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WHAT?! People are angry that Pichu is in Melee?

Ok, not many people know this secret cheat for Pichu that makes him the awesomest character in the game, so I'll forgive you because you didn't know.

Here's the cheat:

1: pick pichu

2: hold left or right BARELY. Like, move the control stick the smallest possible distance you can but enough so that it will still register as a movement. You'll know when you do it right because Pichu pretty much turns into a terrible monster that will scare the crap out of whoever you're facing. One time, a level 9 even got scared of it. Also, when you do it make sure to do it for a long time for a better effect. See if you can do it all the way across Final Destination without peeing your pants.

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They should pack as many characters in there as possible as far as I'm concerned, so long as they put time into making them all cool. Put Cloud and Tifa, for that matter Sephiroth, While they're att it put Ryu from Ninja Gaiden, and as many clones as they're willing to come up with. The more the better for all I care. As long as they're performing due diligence on each characters move and fighting style etc.

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They should pack as many characters in there as possible as far as I'm concerned, so long as they put time into making them all cool. Put Cloud and Tifa, for that matter Sephiroth, While they're att it put Ryu from Ninja Gaiden, and as many clones as they're willing to come up with. The more the better for all I care. As long as they're performing due diligence on each characters move and fighting style etc.

ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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I believe the rule was that the character must have appeared on a Nintendo console once. There's been Final Fantasies on Nintendo, but I believe VII characters are out of the loop. In any case, from the same article I read many moons ago, the people making the man in charge was hoping for at least 2-3 non-Nintendo characters. (I included Snake...)

Oh... here are the three rules:

1.) They must have appeared on a Nintendo console.

2.) They must have originated in a video game.

3.) No anime/manga characters.

I'm hoping for an Advance Wars related character, personally.

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Heh, I remember when I made a post saying many bad things about Melee in a SSB thread - many a Melee fan's pants became wet. (wetter?) I must say I don't agree with much of what Iggy said. I have high hopes for Brawl - I loved every gameplay element they showed in the video: the stage size, the characters' speeds, jumps, moves, hits, umm, dodges too maybe? And I can't complain enough about how Melee's graphics, especially compared to SSB's simplicity, are insanely cluttered and distracting (characters that are no more than a dozen pixels high, changing colour and suddenly appearing in different places all the time, behind a wall of flashing white smoke thingies, fire, explosions, AND the scoreboard - I just can't follow it. I must have the opposite of ADD... or maybe I'm drunk. Sometimes drunk?) Well, I'm glad to say Brawl looks to have SSB's simplicity back - now with good graphics! Full-bodied paths of smoke that last for more than half a second, awsome light trails behind swung blades, nice tight stages that don't zoom out the camera and turn the players into tiny dots, actually being able to manuever around small platforms without accidently jumping off the stage.... looks like Brawl has it all! Or, rather it awl.....?? lawl?

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Those of you wishing for FF characters to appear on brawl, you're going to be disappointed. It would be more realistic (and probably more what you want) to wish for a game -made by Square-Enix- in which characters from different RPGs of the company fight. If that game were made, and made well, it would sell insanely.

On a side note, I wonder if Wario's presence in Brawl will cause the game to be rated for "Crude Humor?" WarioWare games list "Crude Humor" as one of the reasons for their rating. The tentative "Wario Waft" may promise this rating reason included.

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Whats this thrird rule Bullshit? huh? I mean, no anime characters? Why the hell would that even matter?

All I know are the rules of third party and must have been on a nintendo platform. Making that kind of blanket statement makes you just look like a dumbass. way to go, dumbass.

Sonic, would not suck as a melee brawler, know why?

First, one would take Jiggly puff's or Yoshi's Spin add with Fox's or Capt. Falcon's speed multiply by making his jump an actual attack anding a low effect recovery and throwing in a few punches, kicks, and slide attacks and you got you self a pretty playable brawler.

and then wake from your Anti-Fun Commie visons and realize on how items can be updated and improved so much with sonic items

The sonic boxes could act as party balls exept hold only one effect/ item.

Invinciblity- not just StarMan any more

Rings- heals some of you damage percent

Shields- Protects you till someone pops it

Super speed- self explaintory

Not only that, SSBB could have Spring Items either as Classic Mario fare or as Sonic Sping Plunger things.

You'A throw them and they would stick in the ground, wall, sides, ledges. Imagen the barrel combined with a mine combine from the bumber in SSB.

so you want anyone thrown off the stage not to get back on?

Stick it horizontally on the side of the stage and you got a real hard trap. or place it on the ground so the just shoot up 20 (relitive) feet up in the air, helpless.

The possiblities are endless!

Oh and how about the idea of having *as a costume choice for the characters with tenure* the orginal polygonal character models.

So if you chose link or mario, you could choose the costume making it look like the N64 version. They would add in the new moves and stuff

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friendlyhunter, you sound like you're trying to get a reaction out of people and/or sound unique.

And I can't complain enough about how Melee's graphics, especially compared to SSB's simplicity, are insanely cluttered and distracting (characters that are no more than a dozen pixels high, changing colour and suddenly appearing in different places all the time, behind a wall of flashing white smoke thingies, fire, explosions, AND the scoreboard
does anyone know what he just said? I honestly don't get it.

im not going to wet my pants because someone doesn't like my favorite game, but when you say it sucks for some reason that makes no sense at all, i just want you to clarify a little. just pick any one of the thousands of ssbm vids on youtube and show me where the graphics detract from the gameplay.

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friendlyhunter, you sound like you're trying to get a reaction out of people and/or sound unique.

does anyone know what he just said? I honestly don't get it.

im not going to wet my pants because someone doesn't like my favorite game, but when you say it sucks for some reason that makes no sense at all, i just want you to clarify a little. just pick any one of the thousands of ssbm vids on youtube and show me where the graphics detract from the gameplay.

It's called flamebait. Let it go.

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They should pack as many characters in there as possible as far as I'm concerned, so long as they put time into making them all cool. Put Cloud and Tifa, for that matter Sephiroth, While they're att it put Ryu from Ninja Gaiden, and as many clones as they're willing to come up with. The more the better for all I care. As long as they're performing due diligence on each characters move and fighting style etc.

Good god, please don't put any Final Fantasy characters in it.

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They should pack as many characters in there as possible as far as I'm concerned, so long as they put time into making them all cool. Put Cloud and Tifa, for that matter Sephiroth, While they're att it put Ryu from Ninja Gaiden, and as many clones as they're willing to come up with. The more the better for all I care. As long as they're performing due diligence on each characters move and fighting style etc.

Let me also say that this is precisely the opposite of what I want to happen. Especially about the clones.

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