What happened to Unmod?

[Jillian Aversa]

I really would like to know what the exact motivation was for you to post what you did. I am trying to be nice here, even though I feel like the same hasn't been done to me. Others are not, they are way past that point.

Okay, then I will show you my motivation:

- I began my essay post by publicly agreeing with almost all of The Coop's ideas about what OffTopic should be like, because I was hoping that it would show everyone that we are trying to bridge the gap between the staff and UnMod by working together as a team.

- I then moved on to try to explain, from an inside perspective, why UnMod was deleted. Everyone has been demanding to know why, and that was my honest answer. I thought it would help you all to see a detailed explanation of our reasoning. (That being said, the only thing that we all clearly agreed on was the issue of abuse. The few bullets before that were my own perceptions, and my way of rationalizing what led up to the abuse. I'm not an expert in psychology, and I openly admit that. )

- As for the Ginger comment, this explains it:

In a PM with pixie...

Quote:

[01/10 02:49] (Eulogic): you could always respond with "Why don't you go chase after Ginger some more. I'm not going to take my shirt off, so you can go ahead and leave this thread."

[01/10 02:49] (Eulogic): Question mark instead of period after the first sentence.

[01/10 02:49] (pixietricks): because that would fan the flames

[01/10 02:49] (Eulogic): Honestly, I'm not sure it would.

[01/10 02:50] (pixietricks): well, then you can say it, lol

[01/10 02:50] (pixietricks): i'm not gonna take the risk

[01/10 02:50] (Eulogic): but it's funnier coming from you

[01/10 02:50] (Eulogic): and I think it will actually ingratiate you with the UnModders a little

Eulogic has been trying to help me behind the scenes as my "unmod translator." The attempt at humor and bridging the gap was obviously taken the wrong way, but we had only the best of intentions. I am fully aware that most of UnMod hates me, and I don't care about that. What I do care about is trying to get this thread back on track, and trying to show to you all that we as staff are attempting to help patch things up. I was hoping that people would interpret my original post as an act of good will, especially considering how much they hate me.

[Monobrow]

Trying to justify the very act that made most of them hate you probably won't help you much.

And using the very mentality that made them not like you very much in the first place in order to justify that act probably isn't going to help either.

But that aside, if you really want to act in good faith, you probably should listen to the points that people have made to show you that some of the things you perceived about UnMod were really off base.

[Psychotic Ninja]

Good night, sweet prince.

[OverCoat]

I'm severely disappointed at a lot of the latest attitudes in this thread. What the fuck is going through your heads?

edit: before I even condensed my post, it looks like people are trying to clarify their shit.

that's good, I thought we were actually being serious here.

[JJT]

But when an entire community forum is destroyed due to blatant misunderstandings and overgeneralizations; someone, somewhere, needs to actually get an idea of what the fuck was truly going on before the lies eventually become a forgotten "truth".

Let me try to provide that for you.

David Lloyd created the UnMod forum several years ago. A couple days ago he deleted it, citing the headache it was causing both him and the mod team. Can we both agree that a percentage of UnMod was making life difficult, or at least inconvenient for both him the mod team? Okay then.

To cite two recent examples, the flame wars over the sidebar, the pixietricks threads, photos@magfest, etc, were primarily between members of the UnMod community and the site staff. I'm not stating this as the gospel truth, this is just my interpretation of what happened (so correct me if I'm wrong).

This does not mean that many UnModders weren't/aren't decent, intelligent people. It does not mean that either djp or the moderators are/are not idiotic, cruel, unreasonable people. It means that were was drama between two groups of people...one that ran a website, and another other that was using a forum attached to it.

IN LIGHT OF THIS, Dave no longer felt that it was worth it to him (the one who foots the bill for this entire website) to continue accomodating a community that has very little to do with remixing video game music.

The WHY behind this conflict is irrelevant. It doesn't matter who held the moral high ground. Somewhere in Virginia a guy got tired of letting strangers post whatever they wanted in a forum he hosted. END OF STORY.

If you think djp doesn't "get" UnMod, then go ahead and think that. If you think the mods and the judges are a bunch of petty douches who hate to see smart, cool, people get a chance to interact with each other, then go ahead and think that. But this "lies" and "forgotten truth" bullshit has got to go. Do you think that anything truly important is at stake here?

Am I sad that UnMod's gone? Yes, I am. Sure, I made fun of it publicly and trolled there on occasion, but I was fond of it. Kind of the way you'd be fond of that cousin of yours who's crazy, brilliant, funny, talented, easy to talk to, but is also self-destructive, rebellious, and addicted to hard-core pornography. Unmod was all of these things to me and more, and I wasn't even around it much.

It was a good time, but now its over. Maybe the off-topic forum will be just as fun. Maybe unmod.org will fully realize the former glory of its namesake. Maybe there will be something else on the internet or (God forbid) the real world to fill your empty spaces.

Regardless, I hope that all UnModders find what they're looking for. And with that, my bloated, pretentious, monstrosity of a post comes to a close. Good night.

[Vig]

[anne amère]

Well would you look at the time I guess it's my turn to go to bed now.

Good night.

[JJT]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

afk.

[skywalker6705]

I also agree that fad threads should not have a place in OffTopic, as they are a waste of space and really junk up the queue.

So in this case it is the end of The Nice Work Guy, Chargin Our Lazers, and laughing at Cock-bee. Bascially nutering out the fun.

Why don't you go chase after Ginger some more? I'm not going to take my shirt off, so you can go ahead and leave this thread.

The proper follow up WAS (after 1 angry comment post):

Ok, you win. Shirt's gone

Aside from one or two posts from those leaving, no person actually in discussion had used insults yet. Though a joke, it lacked the funny, and all it did was prompt reactions from others. Bad form Eulogic, you missed the punchline.

Also, last time I checked, pixie does not have admin access.

That does not mean she doesn't have say. People can get banned pretty quickly when a judge raises a stink (even if they weren't aiming for that). I don't think pixie followed unmod much because they attacked her. And she actually took it seriously, not as a joke, because of it's scale. The attacks would've died down, but instead reved up when this later resulted in bans.

The issue with was never if her actions or comments this week (or before) were justified. She was ENTIRELY justified in what she says about UnMod, etc. If she were just a poster.

But regarding the issues, STAFF are not us. They're supposed to be an example. Concerning site issues at least. I am not inclined to give a rats ass about reasoning, if staff speak as bad the "abusers" when some comments upset them. Not regarding site stuff. Enter the future Off-Topic, and talk shit about me, the n00b from nowhere. We'll flame a bit, shoot the shit, and laugh at the fact that someone was finally able to use the war to come up with a good necrophiliac dog joke.

[pak2rat]

The point is, there was abuse, and that abuse is what eventually made OffTopic our best possible compromise.

Compromise assumes that 2 separate parties were involved. Where in the 9 Hells were we in this decision for the deletion of Unmod and the creation of OT?!? The Coop must have missed those negotiations (as he is probably the most respected Unmodder, and thus best representative).

You, pixietricks, are an elitist. You are coming off as pompous, egotistic, and self righteous. As thus, most of us Unmodders have ZERO respect for you as you pretend to be an expert on all things Unmod. The mature thing to do is to admit you didn't think of all the issues as you seem only to talk of the evils that happen to have been in Unmod (which, in all reality, weren't in the volume in which you imply).

Frankly, I feel you are behaving quite immaturely as you continually make excuses filled with HEAVY prejudices. Maybe it is time you admit you didn't really understand anything about the culture of Unmod, because it is obvious to many of us that you don't.

At this point, I don't care if I get banned. If the staff can't even PRETEND to have an iota of understanding, posting here is worthless knowing that some staff members really don't seem to give a shit about the members of OCR if they have different beliefs and values than they. OCR has been a diverse society where staff members were active in wider aspects of the site. With the staff's approval of the deletion of Unmod, much of this diversity is now dead as we no longer feel important here.

[WesPip]

Kind of the way you'd be fond of that cousin of yours who's crazy, brilliant, funny, talented, easy to talk to, but is also self-destructive, rebellious, and addicted to hard-core pornography.

That's a very nice simile. Not exactly one that rolls off the tongue, mind you.

[Telii]

I also agree that fad threads should not have a place in OffTopic, as they are a waste of space and really junk up the queue.

So in this case it is the end of The Nice Work Guy, Chargin Our Lazers, and laughing at Cock-bee. Bascially nutering out the fun.

Do you even know what a fad thread is?

[Eulogic]

More chatlog.

[01/10 04:21] (pixietricks): as dumb as it may seem, all those nose jokes and porn stories and guestbook spammings really got to me

[01/10 04:21] (pixietricks): not because any of it was true

[01/10 04:21] (pixietricks): but because i couldn't comprehend why an entire forum of people hated me so much

[01/10 04:22] (Eulogic): I think part of the problem is that a lot of UnModders feel like you're unfairly grouping them together with Ayres, etc.

[01/10 04:22] (pixietricks): yes, but i'm not

[01/10 04:22] (pixietricks): but lemme continue

[01/10 04:23] (pixietricks): at first, i was so upset with all that stuff that i did let cloud my judgement. i started to hate most of unmod.

[01/10 04:24] (pixietricks): but i refrained from posting because i knew it would only escalate, and i didn't want to disappoint the rest of the staff, or incriminate them

[01/10 04:24] (pixietricks): then last week, when i finally saw that unmod was going to be deleted, i was genuinely relieved and happy

[01/10 04:24] (pixietricks): which i think is justified in my case. *however*

[01/10 04:24] (pixietricks): i let that show, with my "phase out" comment

[01/10 04:24] (pixietricks): and that was a huge mistake

[01/10 04:25] (Eulogic): (pixietricks): which i think is justified in my case.

[01/10 04:25] (pixietricks): right now, i am seeing that the proportion of good vs. bad unmodders was not really 95% vs. 5% as dave said

[01/10 04:25] (Eulogic): I think that's where a lot of people have problems

[01/10 04:26] (pixietricks): and i am finally starting to see some of you people as people, not as names on the forums

[01/10 04:26] (pixietricks): so for that i am grateful

[01/10 04:26] (Eulogic): and I think that does help

[01/10 04:26] (pixietricks): but i still can't completely let go of what people did to me

[01/10 04:29] (Eulogic): I think it might help if you told people that.

[01/10 04:29] (Eulogic): I think it will help them understand where you are coming from.

[01/10 04:44] (pixietricks): i give you permission to post the conversation, from "as dumb as it may seem" to "i think it will help them understand where you are coming from"

[skywalker6705]

Let me try to provide that for you.

To cite two recent examples, the flame wars over the sidebar, the pixietricks threads, photos@magfest, etc, were primarily between members of the UnMod community and the site staff. I'm not stating this as the gospel truth, this is just my interpretation of what happened (so correct me if I'm wrong).

If you think djp doesn't "get" UnMod, then go ahead and think that. If you think the mods and the judges are a bunch of petty douches who hate to see smart, cool, people get a chance to interact with each other, then go ahead and think that. But this "lies" and "forgotten truth" bullshit has got to go. Do you think that anything truly important is at stake here?

1)The sidebar issue was settled, and it's wasn't just unmod, they were just the most vocal due to the nature of the subforum. But they were wrong, lesson learned.

2)See my previous post on pixie. As I see it (and unless I'm missing some serious behind the scenes info) it wasn't a serious issue with pixie. They were busting her balls like everyone else. Until it resulted in mods coming down on them. Then they got serious. It probably would have died out in a little while, and entered into the mythos otherwise.

3)I won't debate the magfest issue as I wasn't there. It just was hard to swallow that someone with about 1/2 of the the posts in the 4chan thread suddenly got it out for the mods, particularly when many already thought it was pixie behind it. Again, I suspect that animosity from 2) carried over here and made things seem more than they were.

Now there

*Sits down eagerly listening* Now... tell me of this "forgotten truth" you mention JJT...

*Edit*

[01/10 04:21] (pixietricks): but because i couldn't comprehend why an entire forum of people hated me so much

[01/10 04:26] (pixietricks): but i still can't completely let go of what people did to me

I just wanna highlight these to emphasize that I don't believe it was earnest hate, just popular at the time. But I wasn't a participant, so I can't say for sure. And I hope you can get past it, because you have to if the fomer-unmod is going to. And I doubt they'll do it first.

[pak2rat]

Let me try to provide that for you.

David Lloyd created the UnMod forum several years ago. A couple days ago he deleted it, citing the headache it was causing both him and the mod team. Can we both agree that a percentage of UnMod was making life difficult, or at least inconvenient for both him the mod team? Okay then.

To cite two recent examples, the flame wars over the sidebar, the pixietricks threads, photos@magfest, etc, were primarily between members of the UnMod community and the site staff. I'm not stating this as the gospel truth, this is just my interpretation of what happened (so correct me if I'm wrong).

This does not mean that many UnModders weren't/aren't decent, intelligent people. It does not mean that either djp or the moderators are/are not idiotic, cruel, unreasonable people. It means that were was drama between two groups of people...one that ran a website, and another other that was using a forum attached to it.

IN LIGHT OF THIS, Dave no longer felt that it was worth it to him (the one who foots the bill for this entire website) to continue accomodating a community that has very little to do with remixing video game music.

The WHY behind this conflict is irrelevant. It doesn't matter who held the moral high ground. Somewhere in Virginia a guy got tired of letting strangers post whatever they wanted in a forum he hosted. END OF STORY.

If you think djp doesn't "get" UnMod, then go ahead and think that. If you think the mods and the judges are a bunch of petty douches who hate to see smart, cool, people get a chance to interact with each other, then go ahead and think that. But this "lies" and "forgotten truth" bullshit has got to go. Do you think that anything truly important is at stake here?

Am I sad that UnMod's gone? Yes, I am. Sure, I made fun of it publicly and trolled there on occasion, but I was fond of it. Kind of the way you'd be fond of that cousin of yours who's crazy, brilliant, funny, talented, easy to talk to, but is also self-destructive, rebellious, and addicted to hard-core pornography. Unmod was all of these things to me and more, and I wasn't even around it much.

It was a good time, but now its over. Maybe the off-topic forum will be just as fun. Maybe unmod.org will fully realize the former glory of its namesake. Maybe there will be something else on the internet or (God forbid) the real world to fill your empty spaces.

Regardless, I hope that all UnModders find what they're looking for. And with that, my bloated, pretentious, monstrosity of a post comes to a close. Good night.

If you had really read previous posts, DJP has mostly disappeared from blame for this whole thing and the backlash is pretty much gone to the staff that advised him to delete. As he stated, he trusted their opinions. Many other courses of action could have been suggested, but they all agreed to delete. DJP wrote honestly, yet objectively, admitting the good (ex. community) and the bad (ex. massive use of bandwidth) of Unmod, showing us sincerity and empathy, reenforcing that he does indeed care about those on his site. All the rage is being fueled by a feeling of disregard offered by several of the staff members.

[PassivePretentiousness]

IN LIGHT OF THIS, Dave no longer felt that it was worth it to him (the one who foots the bill for this entire website) to continue accomodating a community that has very little to do with remixing video game music.

That's absolutely fine, as long as there is no more talk about a greater community on ocr. David Lloyd has the right to destroy it, but the community is gone. When I log on and have free time, I quickly check for posted songs, announcments, and judges decisions, but then what? Idle in IRC? Unmod was an opportunity to see people with established personalities, in contrast to far more anomynous general discussion. The whole notion of "community", which the administration flaunts as much as possible, is destroyed. There simply isn't very much interaction in review threads and whatnot.

And I'm sorry, no matter how insular unmod is, I feel far less ostracized occasionally wandering in there than attemping to break into the vgdj/remixer elite clique.

OCR will live on without unmod, but unmod will never live on without OCR. As much as they supposedly hate n00bs, unmod was wholly dependant on the occasional creepy fifteen year old wandering over and lurking. Wherever Radical Dreamer, Mahaboo, Atomic Dog, or anyone else lands up, it will not be for very long. Without a huge group of prospective new unmodders, there is little use for a new forum that a private AIM chat cannot already provide.

I was never really a part of you, unmod, but I am sad to see you go.

I'm only beating the dead horse, vigilante, because I'm a necrophiliac.

[skywalker6705]

I'm only beating the dead horse, vigilante, because I'm a necrophiliac.

If you had only mentioned a dog... damn!

[JJT]

Compromise assumes that 2 separate parties were involved. Where in the 9 Hells were we in this decision for the deletion of Unmod and the creation of OT?!? The Coop must have missed those negotiations (as he is probably the most respected Unmodder, and thus best representative).

You, pixietricks, are an elitist. You are coming off as pompous, egotistic, and self righteous. As thus, most of us Unmodders have ZERO respect for you as you pretend to be an expert on all things Unmod. The mature thing to do is to admit you didn't think of all the issues as you seem only to talk of the evils that happen to have been in Unmod (which, in all reality, weren't in the volume in which you imply).

Frankly, I feel you are behaving quite immaturely as you continually make excuses filled with HEAVY prejudices. Maybe it is time you admit you didn't really understand anything about the culture of Unmod, because it is obvious to many of us that you don't.

At this point, I don't care if I get banned. If the staff can't even PRETEND to have an iota of understanding, posting here is worthless knowing that some staff members really don't seem to give a shit about the members of OCR if they have different beliefs and values than they. OCR has been a diverse society where staff members were active in wider aspects of the site. With the staff's approval of the deletion of Unmod, much of this diversity is now dead as we no longer feel important here.

So....if (according to you) Pixietricks knows absolutely nothing about UnMod, draws absolutely no respect from UnMod whatsoever, and doesn't give a shit about you or what you think, then why are you arguing with her? Seems kind of silly, doesn't it?

edit: k, just read your reply to my post. i just don't see any merit in duking it out with the staff members you're pissed at, unless making pixietricks angry is your ultimate goal. i think there's probably a better way to spend your time and energy, but don't let me stop you.

[Dhsu]

Nobody intended to bulldoze your home on the internet

And yet...that's pretty much exactly what happened. Hitchhiker's Guide style.

P.S. This is why we should allow so-called "slow chatroom" threads. So people can catch up on conversations that are several hours old.

[parasoul]

I think everyone who posted on this thread (including me now) could benefit from the LURK MOAR FGT advice.

[The Joker]

I think everyone who posted on this thread (including me now) could benefit from the LURK MOAR FGT advice.

Yay! i'ma do just that, by golly.

[blueblazer1224]

I checked out the UnMod forum for the first time just now. Damn, was I missing out .

[al3xand3r]

I tried breaking into unmod, and it was, well, harsh. But in a funny way. For some reason, I just lurked the threads, and frankly, many of the shenanigans that are considered useless is what made unmod unmod.

However, I understand very well Off Topic will not be like unmod:

It is like a girl telling you "I like you, but I want you to stop doing this and this, do more of that, and dress this way, but still keep those-"

And I would interrupt by saying, "in other words, you would like me better if I was somedody else. Gotcha."

That's really the case here. Off-Topic will be a different entity, not a modified version of it.

As harsh as unmod was, it never ceased to make me laugh. As I said, I lurked a lot after getting flamed like hell because I wanted to see just what went on in there. And it was fun. I remember long supposedly "senseless" threads that were just amusing to watch, such as Evilhead proclaiming himself King of unmod after the sidebar fiasco, or all of those "objection!" threads (there was one were Evilhead was sued???), Shpladoink's utter randomness (here are some pictures of grouse), Atomic Dog's embodiment of pure narcissim (classic), all these things and more provided much entertainment after I finished downloading the latest mix.

I will miss unmod, but will be there to provide support for the new forum, hoping a new sense of community develops there. I never felt GenDisc really had one. As someone said before, GenDisc is very distant, just people posting, few really know each other.

[Dragonmaster_Alex]

How long have any of you been using the internet? Haven't ANY of you seen anything like this happen?

1. having a vagina gives you massive power on the internet. If the notion "i could get laid some time in my future" is entertained, then the internet is once again introduced to a pseudo-chivalry.

2. unmod is gone. the staff doesn't seem to really understand the logical reasons that anyone cares and i'm fairly certain that they simply don't want to.

3. bitching will change nothing. Bringing back unmod would come off as an "i was wrong. i made a mistake. sorry." and the average person with a penis AND the internet won't do anything that could come off like that without ending it with a condescending "now don't you do it again" phrase and tone or something that'd be the equivalent of that.

[al3xand3r]

How long have any of you been using the internet? Haven't ANY of you seen anything like this happen?

1. having a vagina gives you massive power on the internet. If the notion "i could get laid some time in my future" is entertained, then the internet is once again introduced to a pseudo-chivalry.

2. unmod is gone. the staff doesn't seem to really understand the logical reasons that anyone cares and i'm fairly certain that they simply don't want to.

3. bitching will change nothing. Bringing back unmod would come off as an "i was wrong. i made a mistake. sorry." and the average person with a penis AND the internet won't do anything that could come off like that without ending it with a condescending "now don't you do it again" phrase and tone or something that'd be the equivalent of that.

I disagree.

I see what happened as a projection of what happens in real-world scenarios.

Let me explain:

The moderators, whether they want to or not, do become a clique of their own. Why? Because they discuss details pertaining to running the site, ideas, rules, etc. They spend time together, and thus draw closer to each other. Same goes with unmodders. Unmodders are a clique as well. There is nothing wrong with this, it is a result of hanging out, etc. Over time, people become friends, and you begin to trust those people, as DJP himself said.

So we have the mods trusting each other, judges trusting each other, and unmodders trusting each other. Of course, just as it is in any community or family, bickering within the clique itself sometimes happens, but all in all, you know that you can count on your friends/family/community when the time comes.

Now here comes the issue: what happens when an outsider attacks someone you consider a friend? Natural response is to protect your friend.

This is what happened here. Subconsciously or fully aware, DJP had to protect his closest friends, because that's the tendency we have as human beings. Unmodders turned to each other for support and protection as well.

I truly believe that the fighting that broke out between both sides stemmed from something trivial that got blown out of proportion. perhaps an unmodder said, "what? a girl mod? blah blah blah" Common unmodder behavior, the whole anarchy sentiment. However, from lurking a LOT in unmod, I myself learned that this was never to be taken seriously. None of it ever was. However, the mods didn't see it that way, and over time, both sides began to take it seriously.

Each time one side attacked, the attacked got support from their friends because, hey, that's what friends do.

I honestly do not think anyone hated Pixie at the beginning, but unmod likes to pick on someone from time to time. When I tried to break into their group, I learned this the hard way. Sure, I didn't like it, but then I lurked, and then I LEARNED the culture: it's not serious. I started moving in slowly to unmod territory through Dew's "original artwork" thread, and similar ones after that, which I now miss dearly, and learned my way around unmod, made some friends in the way.

I wouldn't initially take anybody's side on the matter because I think both screwed up and failed to understand each other. If pushed, however, I would side with unmod. Why? Same reason I have been saying all along: friends. I never spent time with zircon, or smoke, or pixie, or DJP, or the others. But I recognize my unmod buddies. See what I mean? It happens in real life all the time: friends stick up for each other when one is attacked, and that, simply put, is what happened here.

NOTE TO PIXIE: I realize that you were the center of unmod's attack for a very long time. I didn't expect it to go as far as it did, and certainly a lot of it was uncalled for. However, I also hope you realize you made some terrible assumptions and mistakes of your own. Despite all this, I honestly would hate to see more members of this community leave, whether I know them or not, so please, try not to hold any grudges (which I know is a difficult thing to do), and stay helping out here.

NOTE TO UNMODDERS: I hope many of you come back when the new forum is up, and that you also lay aside all ill-intent directed towards the staff (which might be difficult, seeing as to we, as human beings, are unforgiving creatures). I realize not everyone will come back though, and to those that leave, well, hope you find a new place suitable to your needs.