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DarkOmenDKA

What happened to Unmod?

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Honestly, I think it was a joke in an attempt to reconcile "us" and "them," as she already said was her intention for Off-Topic.

Well, while the intention may have been good, with the way things are now people are already feeling insulted and what look like personal attacks (even if they aren't meant as such) won't help. Rather than an attempt to reconcile, it easily comes off as an attempt to further drive the wedge.

My apologies for the misunderstanding, though, if that's the case.

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Don't look a gift horse in the mouth and all.

I think mostly that the problem between the site administration and the people of UnMod within the last year was a lack of communication.

There was no real communication, besides a post at gerbilfat by myf (who is now pretty much MIA) about the direction everything was going to take. And instead of letting people who were genuinely concerned about the direction of the site have any say/complaint/question, they were all pretty much dismissed.

I still remember someone calling the people of UnMod a bunch of "nobodies" during the sidebar fiasco.

And now I will definitely retain the words of another certain someone telling the good (little) people of UnMod to "phase out"

And I will still remember when even another certain someone pretty much called me a liar a couple days ago when all I was trying to do was prove that at one point, both sides of this little e-drama-war had tried to make up and move on. It seems to me that the only mod that really extended any hand to the since alienated part of this community was Gray, and he's gone. It's no surprise that this little bubble of the internet has burst. But what is surprising is that after the fact, many people in the administration are acting surprised that things played out the way they did.

I know remixing and music is important, I know that there are other parts of this site... But one of the biggest issues always seemed to be this forum that wasn't "supposed" to matter. And it always seemed to me that the majority of the people that hated it so much were people who never went there.

Hearing constantly how bad the place is, how much of a cesspool it was, how immature everyone was, and how on the whole worthless to the community it was pretty much says it all in terms of the reaction on that part of the community. It went from being a running joke to people actually becoming defensive about their points of view on the matter.

And about downloading remixes: I will say this, if you aren't (on the whole) going to give the people (fans) who do not remix or contribute to the site any respect, then you aren't going to receive any in return. It's not about the music, it's about the artist. When someone doesn't like someone else's personal agenda, especially if they are running the "show" so to speak, then they aren't going to support what they are trying to represent in any way, shape, or form. It's not the remixes, it's not the music quality or the process, it's the people behind it. And when things start getting so personalized as they did, instead of taking a step back from the picture as I would have hoped a mod should, it seemed that everything from both ends become agenda-based. And when people questioned that agenda, it was like they become an enemy. That is when generalizations come in, when you group people together. And guess what? A lot of those people DID eventually band up together. I mean, why not? They were all being labeled anyway.

And suddenly the same was being done from another end. People in UnMod started to group the mods together, the admins, the judges, anyone in a position of authority, because they had become slowly alienated. Think about it, who is calling you worthless? Someone in authority, and no one else in authority is doing anything about it? Well they certainly must be condoning it. Therefore they aren't any different.

I am not about who started all of this first, I think it all just accumulated from a general attitude from both parties. But the fact remains that as a mod, as someone who has any sort of power or sway in this site, to act surprised at the outcome of this situation is completely baffling to me.

It's like goading someone to slap you in the face, and then acting surprised when they actually do so. And then crying that it hurt, followed by using the fact that they resorted to the said slap as a justification for everything you believed before about them. "They are so childish, I will show you by demeaning them and calling them childish until they do something that is childish which will justify me calling them childish in the first place!"

I liked UnMod. I liked it because I could unwind and have fun on the internet with people I could identify with. These people had mostly come to the site because of the songs, they downloaded them, listened to them, and then they went to become part of a community that also downloaded them and listened to them. But let's face it, you can only talk about how much you like so and so's song so much. (and remember that you can't even have a favorites list in the forums etc.) So what are people going to talk about?

I enjoyed the fact that the site was about video game music, which I still listen to. But what is wrong with a community of people using this website as common ground to form friendships? I enjoy the fact that there was a community so tight-knit, that I actually ended up caring what happened, and thinking about this issue to the point of getting directly involved with people I have never met nor "should" give a damn about. If this place was just about remixes, I would have never gotten as involved as I have, simply because I would have never connected with the friends I made. I would have just downloaded songs once in a while, and probably would have eventually lost interest. The community kept me visiting, again, and again, and again.

I think most of the people that seem so against the community of UnMod as being worthless should look around at the friends they themselves have made, even if not in UnMod. Calling a community of people worthless then will become ironic.

I'm quoting myself because I think what is happening right now in this thread is directly tied to this subject. Pixie, you can't have it both ways... You came to this thread with your reasoning that you felt was perfectly justifiable. But other people had their own views on what your reasoning meant. If you are just speaking for yourself, then fine, but don't expect to flame someone who is angry about an entire forum being deleted with something like that and not have any sort of reaction.

The intent of your post may have been your personal view, but it sounded to me like it was supposed to represent the views of the admin/mods as well. The whole "we" thing. Therefore, in this thread, you are a representative of an ideal of more than one person. Syl was talking about his own personal view, as was I, as was the Coop, as was everyone else here who has responded. The fact that you grouped us all together again, with this "mob" mentality thing, to justify the deletion of UnMod actually surprises me this time, because I had thought there was a lesson learned.

If you want to flame Syl, especially under these circumstances, don't expect everyone to play nice. It's not going to happen, especially here, because you were partially responsible for influencing the very deletion of the only place where you could actually get away with it. And since you never participated in UnMod, never actually had any real interaction with Syl before, I would say that you are either goading an already angry community member, and therefore many people who agree with him into acting "angry" to prove your point that we are all bad people, and that you are masochistic enough to use yourself as the bait, or that you just don't really know at all what you are trying to do. But one thing I will say, even if a point has been made, it applies to you as well.

I really would like to know what the exact motivation was for you to post what you did. I am trying to be nice here, even though I feel like the same hasn't been done to me. Others are not, they are way past that point.

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I really would like to know what the exact motivation was for you to post what you did. I am trying to be nice here, even though I feel like the same hasn't been done to me. Others are not, they are way past that point.

Okay, then I will show you my motivation:

- I began my essay post by publicly agreeing with almost all of The Coop's ideas about what OffTopic should be like, because I was hoping that it would show everyone that we are trying to bridge the gap between the staff and UnMod by working together as a team.

- I then moved on to try to explain, from an inside perspective, why UnMod was deleted. Everyone has been demanding to know why, and that was my honest answer. I thought it would help you all to see a detailed explanation of our reasoning. (That being said, the only thing that we all clearly agreed on was the issue of abuse. The few bullets before that were my own perceptions, and my way of rationalizing what led up to the abuse. I'm not an expert in psychology, and I openly admit that. :P)

- As for the Ginger comment, this explains it:

In a PM with pixie...

Quote:

[01/10 02:49] (Eulogic): you could always respond with "Why don't you go chase after Ginger some more. I'm not going to take my shirt off, so you can go ahead and leave this thread."

[01/10 02:49] (Eulogic): Question mark instead of period after the first sentence.

[01/10 02:49] (pixietricks): because that would fan the flames

[01/10 02:49] (Eulogic): Honestly, I'm not sure it would.

[01/10 02:50] (pixietricks): well, then you can say it, lol

[01/10 02:50] (pixietricks): i'm not gonna take the risk

[01/10 02:50] (Eulogic): but it's funnier coming from you

[01/10 02:50] (Eulogic): and I think it will actually ingratiate you with the UnModders a little

Eulogic has been trying to help me behind the scenes as my "unmod translator." The attempt at humor and bridging the gap was obviously taken the wrong way, but we had only the best of intentions. I am fully aware that most of UnMod hates me, and I don't care about that. What I do care about is trying to get this thread back on track, and trying to show to you all that we as staff are attempting to help patch things up. I was hoping that people would interpret my original post as an act of good will, especially considering how much they hate me.

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Trying to justify the very act that made most of them hate you probably won't help you much.

And using the very mentality that made them not like you very much in the first place in order to justify that act probably isn't going to help either.

But that aside, if you really want to act in good faith, you probably should listen to the points that people have made to show you that some of the things you perceived about UnMod were really off base.

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I'm severely disappointed at a lot of the latest attitudes in this thread. What the fuck is going through your heads?

edit: before I even condensed my post, it looks like people are trying to clarify their shit.

that's good, I thought we were actually being serious here.

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But when an entire community forum is destroyed due to blatant misunderstandings and overgeneralizations; someone, somewhere, needs to actually get an idea of what the fuck was truly going on before the lies eventually become a forgotten "truth".

Let me try to provide that for you.

David Lloyd created the UnMod forum several years ago. A couple days ago he deleted it, citing the headache it was causing both him and the mod team. Can we both agree that a percentage of UnMod was making life difficult, or at least inconvenient for both him the mod team? Okay then.

To cite two recent examples, the flame wars over the sidebar, the pixietricks threads, photos@magfest, etc, were primarily between members of the UnMod community and the site staff. I'm not stating this as the gospel truth, this is just my interpretation of what happened (so correct me if I'm wrong).

This does not mean that many UnModders weren't/aren't decent, intelligent people. It does not mean that either djp or the moderators are/are not idiotic, cruel, unreasonable people. It means that were was drama between two groups of people...one that ran a website, and another other that was using a forum attached to it.

IN LIGHT OF THIS, Dave no longer felt that it was worth it to him (the one who foots the bill for this entire website) to continue accomodating a community that has very little to do with remixing video game music.

The WHY behind this conflict is irrelevant. It doesn't matter who held the moral high ground. Somewhere in Virginia a guy got tired of letting strangers post whatever they wanted in a forum he hosted. END OF STORY.

If you think djp doesn't "get" UnMod, then go ahead and think that. If you think the mods and the judges are a bunch of petty douches who hate to see smart, cool, people get a chance to interact with each other, then go ahead and think that. But this "lies" and "forgotten truth" bullshit has got to go. Do you think that anything truly important is at stake here?

Am I sad that UnMod's gone? Yes, I am. Sure, I made fun of it publicly and trolled there on occasion, but I was fond of it. Kind of the way you'd be fond of that cousin of yours who's crazy, brilliant, funny, talented, easy to talk to, but is also self-destructive, rebellious, and addicted to hard-core pornography. Unmod was all of these things to me and more, and I wasn't even around it much.

It was a good time, but now its over. Maybe the off-topic forum will be just as fun. Maybe unmod.org will fully realize the former glory of its namesake. Maybe there will be something else on the internet or (God forbid) the real world to fill your empty spaces.

Regardless, I hope that all UnModders find what they're looking for. And with that, my bloated, pretentious, monstrosity of a post comes to a close. Good night.

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I also agree that fad threads should not have a place in OffTopic, as they are a waste of space and really junk up the queue.

So in this case it is the end of The Nice Work Guy, Chargin Our Lazers, and laughing at Cock-bee. Bascially nutering out the fun.

Why don't you go chase after Ginger some more? I'm not going to take my shirt off, so you can go ahead and leave this thread. :D

The proper follow up WAS (after 1 angry comment post):

Ok, you win. Shirt's gone

Aside from one or two posts from those leaving, no person actually in discussion had used insults yet. Though a joke, it lacked the funny, and all it did was prompt reactions from others. Bad form Eulogic, you missed the punchline.

Also, last time I checked, pixie does not have admin access.

That does not mean she doesn't have say. People can get banned pretty quickly when a judge raises a stink (even if they weren't aiming for that). I don't think pixie followed unmod much because they attacked her. And she actually took it seriously, not as a joke, because of it's scale. The attacks would've died down, but instead reved up when this later resulted in bans.

The issue with was never if her actions or comments this week (or before) were justified. She was ENTIRELY justified in what she says about UnMod, etc. If she were just a poster.

But regarding the issues, STAFF are not us. They're supposed to be an example. Concerning site issues at least. I am not inclined to give a rats ass about reasoning, if staff speak as bad the "abusers" when some comments upset them. Not regarding site stuff. Enter the future Off-Topic, and talk shit about me, the n00b from nowhere. We'll flame a bit, shoot the shit, and laugh at the fact that someone was finally able to use the war to come up with a good necrophiliac dog joke.

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The point is, there was abuse, and that abuse is what eventually made OffTopic our best possible compromise.

Compromise assumes that 2 separate parties were involved. Where in the 9 Hells were we in this decision for the deletion of Unmod and the creation of OT?!? The Coop must have missed those negotiations (as he is probably the most respected Unmodder, and thus best representative).

You, pixietricks, are an elitist. You are coming off as pompous, egotistic, and self righteous. As thus, most of us Unmodders have ZERO respect for you as you pretend to be an expert on all things Unmod. The mature thing to do is to admit you didn't think of all the issues as you seem only to talk of the evils that happen to have been in Unmod (which, in all reality, weren't in the volume in which you imply).

Frankly, I feel you are behaving quite immaturely as you continually make excuses filled with HEAVY prejudices. Maybe it is time you admit you didn't really understand anything about the culture of Unmod, because it is obvious to many of us that you don't.

At this point, I don't care if I get banned. If the staff can't even PRETEND to have an iota of understanding, posting here is worthless knowing that some staff members really don't seem to give a shit about the members of OCR if they have different beliefs and values than they. OCR has been a diverse society where staff members were active in wider aspects of the site. With the staff's approval of the deletion of Unmod, much of this diversity is now dead as we no longer feel important here.

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Kind of the way you'd be fond of that cousin of yours who's crazy, brilliant, funny, talented, easy to talk to, but is also self-destructive, rebellious, and addicted to hard-core pornography.

That's a very nice simile. Not exactly one that rolls off the tongue, mind you.

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I also agree that fad threads should not have a place in OffTopic, as they are a waste of space and really junk up the queue.

So in this case it is the end of The Nice Work Guy, Chargin Our Lazers, and laughing at Cock-bee. Bascially nutering out the fun.

Do you even know what a fad thread is?

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More chatlog.

[01/10 04:21] (pixietricks): as dumb as it may seem, all those nose jokes and porn stories and guestbook spammings really got to me

[01/10 04:21] (pixietricks): not because any of it was true

[01/10 04:21] (pixietricks): but because i couldn't comprehend why an entire forum of people hated me so much

[01/10 04:22] (Eulogic): I think part of the problem is that a lot of UnModders feel like you're unfairly grouping them together with Ayres, etc.

[01/10 04:22] (pixietricks): yes, but i'm not

[01/10 04:22] (pixietricks): but lemme continue

[01/10 04:23] (pixietricks): at first, i was so upset with all that stuff that i did let cloud my judgement. i started to hate most of unmod.

[01/10 04:24] (pixietricks): but i refrained from posting because i knew it would only escalate, and i didn't want to disappoint the rest of the staff, or incriminate them

[01/10 04:24] (pixietricks): then last week, when i finally saw that unmod was going to be deleted, i was genuinely relieved and happy

[01/10 04:24] (pixietricks): which i think is justified in my case. *however*

[01/10 04:24] (pixietricks): i let that show, with my "phase out" comment

[01/10 04:24] (pixietricks): and that was a huge mistake

[01/10 04:25] (Eulogic): (pixietricks): which i think is justified in my case.

[01/10 04:25] (pixietricks): right now, i am seeing that the proportion of good vs. bad unmodders was not really 95% vs. 5% as dave said

[01/10 04:25] (Eulogic): I think that's where a lot of people have problems

[01/10 04:26] (pixietricks): and i am finally starting to see some of you people as people, not as names on the forums

[01/10 04:26] (pixietricks): so for that i am grateful

[01/10 04:26] (Eulogic): and I think that does help

[01/10 04:26] (pixietricks): but i still can't completely let go of what people did to me

[01/10 04:29] (Eulogic): I think it might help if you told people that.

[01/10 04:29] (Eulogic): I think it will help them understand where you are coming from.

[01/10 04:44] (pixietricks): i give you permission to post the conversation, from "as dumb as it may seem" to "i think it will help them understand where you are coming from"

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Let me try to provide that for you.

To cite two recent examples, the flame wars over the sidebar, the pixietricks threads, photos@magfest, etc, were primarily between members of the UnMod community and the site staff. I'm not stating this as the gospel truth, this is just my interpretation of what happened (so correct me if I'm wrong).

If you think djp doesn't "get" UnMod, then go ahead and think that. If you think the mods and the judges are a bunch of petty douches who hate to see smart, cool, people get a chance to interact with each other, then go ahead and think that. But this "lies" and "forgotten truth" bullshit has got to go. Do you think that anything truly important is at stake here?

1)The sidebar issue was settled, and it's wasn't just unmod, they were just the most vocal due to the nature of the subforum. But they were wrong, lesson learned.

2)See my previous post on pixie. As I see it (and unless I'm missing some serious behind the scenes info) it wasn't a serious issue with pixie. They were busting her balls like everyone else. Until it resulted in mods coming down on them. Then they got serious. It probably would have died out in a little while, and entered into the mythos otherwise.

3)I won't debate the magfest issue as I wasn't there. It just was hard to swallow that someone with about 1/2 of the the posts in the 4chan thread suddenly got it out for the mods, particularly when many already thought it was pixie behind it. Again, I suspect that animosity from 2) carried over here and made things seem more than they were.

Now there

*Sits down eagerly listening* Now... tell me of this "forgotten truth" you mention JJT...

*Edit*

[01/10 04:21] (pixietricks): but because i couldn't comprehend why an entire forum of people hated me so much

[01/10 04:26] (pixietricks): but i still can't completely let go of what people did to me

I just wanna highlight these to emphasize that I don't believe it was earnest hate, just popular at the time. But I wasn't a participant, so I can't say for sure. And I hope you can get past it, because you have to if the fomer-unmod is going to. And I doubt they'll do it first.

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Let me try to provide that for you.

David Lloyd created the UnMod forum several years ago. A couple days ago he deleted it, citing the headache it was causing both him and the mod team. Can we both agree that a percentage of UnMod was making life difficult, or at least inconvenient for both him the mod team? Okay then.

To cite two recent examples, the flame wars over the sidebar, the pixietricks threads, photos@magfest, etc, were primarily between members of the UnMod community and the site staff. I'm not stating this as the gospel truth, this is just my interpretation of what happened (so correct me if I'm wrong).

This does not mean that many UnModders weren't/aren't decent, intelligent people. It does not mean that either djp or the moderators are/are not idiotic, cruel, unreasonable people. It means that were was drama between two groups of people...one that ran a website, and another other that was using a forum attached to it.

IN LIGHT OF THIS, Dave no longer felt that it was worth it to him (the one who foots the bill for this entire website) to continue accomodating a community that has very little to do with remixing video game music.

The WHY behind this conflict is irrelevant. It doesn't matter who held the moral high ground. Somewhere in Virginia a guy got tired of letting strangers post whatever they wanted in a forum he hosted. END OF STORY.

If you think djp doesn't "get" UnMod, then go ahead and think that. If you think the mods and the judges are a bunch of petty douches who hate to see smart, cool, people get a chance to interact with each other, then go ahead and think that. But this "lies" and "forgotten truth" bullshit has got to go. Do you think that anything truly important is at stake here?

Am I sad that UnMod's gone? Yes, I am. Sure, I made fun of it publicly and trolled there on occasion, but I was fond of it. Kind of the way you'd be fond of that cousin of yours who's crazy, brilliant, funny, talented, easy to talk to, but is also self-destructive, rebellious, and addicted to hard-core pornography. Unmod was all of these things to me and more, and I wasn't even around it much.

It was a good time, but now its over. Maybe the off-topic forum will be just as fun. Maybe unmod.org will fully realize the former glory of its namesake. Maybe there will be something else on the internet or (God forbid) the real world to fill your empty spaces.

Regardless, I hope that all UnModders find what they're looking for. And with that, my bloated, pretentious, monstrosity of a post comes to a close. Good night.

If you had really read previous posts, DJP has mostly disappeared from blame for this whole thing and the backlash is pretty much gone to the staff that advised him to delete. As he stated, he trusted their opinions. Many other courses of action could have been suggested, but they all agreed to delete. DJP wrote honestly, yet objectively, admitting the good (ex. community) and the bad (ex. massive use of bandwidth) of Unmod, showing us sincerity and empathy, reenforcing that he does indeed care about those on his site. All the rage is being fueled by a feeling of disregard offered by several of the staff members.

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IN LIGHT OF THIS, Dave no longer felt that it was worth it to him (the one who foots the bill for this entire website) to continue accomodating a community that has very little to do with remixing video game music.

That's absolutely fine, as long as there is no more talk about a greater community on ocr. David Lloyd has the right to destroy it, but the community is gone. When I log on and have free time, I quickly check for posted songs, announcments, and judges decisions, but then what? Idle in IRC? Unmod was an opportunity to see people with established personalities, in contrast to far more anomynous general discussion. The whole notion of "community", which the administration flaunts as much as possible, is destroyed. There simply isn't very much interaction in review threads and whatnot.

And I'm sorry, no matter how insular unmod is, I feel far less ostracized occasionally wandering in there than attemping to break into the vgdj/remixer elite clique.

OCR will live on without unmod, but unmod will never live on without OCR. As much as they supposedly hate n00bs, unmod was wholly dependant on the occasional creepy fifteen year old wandering over and lurking. Wherever Radical Dreamer, Mahaboo, Atomic Dog, or anyone else lands up, it will not be for very long. Without a huge group of prospective new unmodders, there is little use for a new forum that a private AIM chat cannot already provide.

I was never really a part of you, unmod, but I am sad to see you go.

I'm only beating the dead horse, vigilante, because I'm a necrophiliac.

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Compromise assumes that 2 separate parties were involved. Where in the 9 Hells were we in this decision for the deletion of Unmod and the creation of OT?!? The Coop must have missed those negotiations (as he is probably the most respected Unmodder, and thus best representative).

You, pixietricks, are an elitist. You are coming off as pompous, egotistic, and self righteous. As thus, most of us Unmodders have ZERO respect for you as you pretend to be an expert on all things Unmod. The mature thing to do is to admit you didn't think of all the issues as you seem only to talk of the evils that happen to have been in Unmod (which, in all reality, weren't in the volume in which you imply).

Frankly, I feel you are behaving quite immaturely as you continually make excuses filled with HEAVY prejudices. Maybe it is time you admit you didn't really understand anything about the culture of Unmod, because it is obvious to many of us that you don't.

At this point, I don't care if I get banned. If the staff can't even PRETEND to have an iota of understanding, posting here is worthless knowing that some staff members really don't seem to give a shit about the members of OCR if they have different beliefs and values than they. OCR has been a diverse society where staff members were active in wider aspects of the site. With the staff's approval of the deletion of Unmod, much of this diversity is now dead as we no longer feel important here.

So....if (according to you) Pixietricks knows absolutely nothing about UnMod, draws absolutely no respect from UnMod whatsoever, and doesn't give a shit about you or what you think, then why are you arguing with her? Seems kind of silly, doesn't it?

edit: k, just read your reply to my post. i just don't see any merit in duking it out with the staff members you're pissed at, unless making pixietricks angry is your ultimate goal. i think there's probably a better way to spend your time and energy, but don't let me stop you.

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Nobody intended to bulldoze your home on the internet

And yet...that's pretty much exactly what happened. Hitchhiker's Guide style.

P.S. This is why we should allow so-called "slow chatroom" threads. So people can catch up on conversations that are several hours old. :P

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I think everyone who posted on this thread (including me now) could benefit from the LURK MOAR FGT advice.

Yay! i'ma do just that, by golly.

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I tried breaking into unmod, and it was, well, harsh. But in a funny way. For some reason, I just lurked the threads, and frankly, many of the shenanigans that are considered useless is what made unmod unmod.

However, I understand very well Off Topic will not be like unmod:

It is like a girl telling you "I like you, but I want you to stop doing this and this, do more of that, and dress this way, but still keep those-"

And I would interrupt by saying, "in other words, you would like me better if I was somedody else. Gotcha."

That's really the case here. Off-Topic will be a different entity, not a modified version of it.

As harsh as unmod was, it never ceased to make me laugh. As I said, I lurked a lot after getting flamed like hell because I wanted to see just what went on in there. And it was fun. I remember long supposedly "senseless" threads that were just amusing to watch, such as Evilhead proclaiming himself King of unmod after the sidebar fiasco, or all of those "objection!" threads (there was one were Evilhead was sued???), Shpladoink's utter randomness (here are some pictures of grouse), Atomic Dog's embodiment of pure narcissim (classic), all these things and more provided much entertainment after I finished downloading the latest mix.

I will miss unmod, but will be there to provide support for the new forum, hoping a new sense of community develops there. I never felt GenDisc really had one. As someone said before, GenDisc is very distant, just people posting, few really know each other.

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