What happened to Unmod?

[Señor Quetzalcoatl]

I just came to this thread again to see shpladoink's sig.

[wormguy]

Well, apparently I missed a lot of drama prior to and directly after the deletion of UnMod. Thus, I feel utterly confused and kind of unwanted by this decision. We saw some bad times with UnMod, sure... the sidebar fiasco and the like. But I don't see how anything UnMod could have done would warrant a deletion... it seems like an extremely drastic measure.

I like Shpladoink's idea of a non-.org option for UnModders, but I'm afraid that the community has already been fractured irreparably.

So...goodbye, UnMod. It was fun while it lasted.

[djpretzel]

This topic deserves a response from yours truly, and I apologize for not making one sooner. I'm a bit sick, and when I'm working in DC I have limited access to the net.

Of everyone in the room that wished UnMod gone, I was probably the most reticent about its deletion, however ironic that may be. I knew that 95% of its usage was indeed disposable, and that it did have a good number of people who didn't even listen to and or care about video game music or OCR in general, but used it as a dumping ground for... whatever.

The 5% is what gave me pause. It's what made me check with Larry to see what he thought, and it's why deleting the forum in the fashion that we did honestly did seem like bad form to me. Did I succumb to peer pressure? In a sense... however, the mods and site staff are more than peers, they're people who spend more time on the site than I do, who contribute above and beyond to it, and when all of them recommend something and none of them object, it's less about peer pressure and more about trusting people you respect.

I knew there were legitimate users of the forum. I knew there were probably proponents, as Dhsu and The Coop have proven, that could articulate its merits, and who would oppose deletion without any warning whatsoever. This probably didn't bother anyone else in the room, but it did bother me. The counterargument against warning was that it would cause a massive backlash and that the other forums would suffer the consequences. That ended up happening to an extent, regardless, as poor Shariq was forced to mass-moderate an influx of inappropriate materials following UnMod's deletion. In a way, this validated the argument that advance warning wasn't such a great notion, but I still apologize to the few & proud legitimate visitors to the forum who wouldn't have reacted inappropriately and who deserved advance warning.

UnMod was originally formed so that those who wanted to bitch and moan about how much of a saucy asshole I was could do so, provided they didn't flood, spam, or troll. Somehow, that notion devolved into a place where people with almost no interest in OCR posted random shit. While a good deal of that random shit occasionally amused me, and there was some real keeper hentai posted, ultimately the more appropriate form of the forum is for discussion of topics not directly related to games, anime, or music, which are the three topics General Discussion focuses on.

As a side note, yes, it's a little goofy to think that anything can be "off-topic" to "general" discussion; we might find a way to semantically clarify this discrepancy further.

We're waiting to create the "Off-topic" forum specifically because we don't want the appearance of simply renaming UnMod. We want to start from a clean slate, encourage threads like "and it made me smile" and similarly popular but also substantive conversation, and discourage using OCR as the forum equivalent of Sanford & Son's backyard.

Is that a feasible goal? Are ANY of the 5% of UnMod's cooler folks that actually do give a damn about OCR going to stick around after their home has been abruptly ripped out from underneath them?

I don't know. I hope so. I do know that it wasn't my goal to make OCR "classier" by deleting the forum, but rather to alleviate stress on the part of the moderators, to eliminate what had largely become a dumping ground for people not remotely interested in OC ReMix, and to create a new forum that would allow for the best of what UnMod had to offer but with moderation in place to prevent anarchy.

[shpladoink]

I like Shpladoink's idea of a non-.org option for UnModders, but I'm afraid that the community has already been fractured irreparably.

That is where you are wrong, my wormy friend! I have contact info for most of the unmod regulars, and we are still alive and, sadly, in need of a new home. The main gripe I have with .org is the ultramod status that resides there. Basically, if whoever is a mod at the time doesn't like what you post, it's gone. What we're looking to do is provide a place for the unmod guys and girls that still want to do what they used to do and have fun. Of course, it won't be the same, but if it works the way I expect, the sense of community will remain intact.

[wormguy]

That is where you are wrong, my wormy friend! I have contact info for most of the unmod regulars, and we are still alive and, sadly, in need of a new home. The main gripe I have with .org is the ultramod status that resides there. Basically, if whoever is a mod at the time doesn't like what you post, it's gone. What we're looking to do is provide a place for the unmod guys and girls that still want to do what they used to do and have fun. Of course, it won't be the same, but if it works the way I expect, the sense of community will remain intact.

Well, that makes me feel better. Keep me posted.

[BigBoss]

Is that a feasible goal? Are ANY of the 5% of UnMod's cooler folks that actually do give a damn about OCR going to stick around after their home has been abruptly ripped out from underneath them?

I know I am, but I'm still on the fence about Off Topic. I'm really staying, or rather, visiting, for the remix forums - I ask for help when I need it.

[Zombie Jim Morrison]

This topic deserves a response from yours truly, and I apologize for not making one sooner. I'm a bit sick, and when I'm working in DC I have limited access to the net.

Of everyone in the room that wished UnMod gone, I was probably the most reticent about its deletion, however ironic that may be. I knew that 95% of its usage was indeed disposable, and that it did have a good number of people who didn't even listen to and or care about video game music or OCR in general, but used it as a dumping ground for... whatever.

The 5% is what gave me pause. It's what made me check with Larry to see what he thought, and it's why deleting the forum in the fashion that we did honestly did seem like bad form to me. Did I succumb to peer pressure? In a sense... however, the mods and site staff are more than peers, they're people who spend more time on the site than I do, who contribute above and beyond to it, and when all of them recommend something and none of them object, it's less about peer pressure and more about trusting people you respect.

I knew there were legitimate users of the forum. I knew there were probably proponents, as Dhsu and The Coop have proven, that could articulate its merits, and who would oppose deletion without any warning whatsoever. This probably didn't bother anyone else in the room, but it did bother me. The counterargument against warning was that it would cause a massive backlash and that the other forums would suffer the consequences. That ended up happening to an extent, regardless, as poor Shariq was forced to mass-moderate an influx of inappropriate materials following UnMod's deletion. In a way, this validated the argument that advance warning wasn't such a great notion, but I still apologize to the few & proud legitimate visitors to the forum who wouldn't have reacted inappropriately and who deserved advance warning.

UnMod was originally formed so that those who wanted to bitch and moan about how much of a saucy asshole I was could do so, provided they didn't flood, spam, or troll. Somehow, that notion devolved into a place where people with almost no interest in OCR posted random shit. While a good deal of that random shit occasionally amused me, and there was some real keeper hentai posted, ultimately the more appropriate form of the forum is for discussion of topics not directly related to games, anime, or music, which are the three topics General Discussion focuses on.

As a side note, yes, it's a little goofy to think that anything can be "off-topic" to "general" discussion; we might find a way to semantically clarify this discrepancy further.

We're waiting to create the "Off-topic" forum specifically because we don't want the appearance of simply renaming UnMod. We want to start from a clean slate, encourage threads like "and it made me smile" and similarly popular but also substantive conversation, and discourage using OCR as the forum equivalent of Sanford & Son's backyard.

Is that a feasible goal? Are ANY of the 5% of UnMod's cooler folks that actually do give a damn about OCR going to stick around after their home has been abruptly ripped out from underneath them?

I don't know. I hope so. I do know that it wasn't my goal to make OCR "classier" by deleting the forum, but rather to alleviate stress on the part of the moderators, to eliminate what had largely become a dumping ground for people not remotely interested in OC ReMix, and to create a new forum that would allow for the best of what UnMod had to offer but with moderation in place to prevent anarchy.

Before I leave, I just want to say that this was a pretty classy and well-handled response, and I respect you for that.

[Eulogic]

I would both like to second djp's hopes and expectations for Off-Topic as a bright new land and a golden age for not only that forum, but for the entire site, as well as state that I think the name "Off-Topic" is both appropriate and aesthetically pleasing, and I hope that it is not changed.

[The Coop]

This topic deserves a response from yours truly, and I apologize for not making one sooner. I'm a bit sick, and when I'm working in DC I have limited access to the net.

Of everyone in the room that wished UnMod gone, I was probably the most reticent about its deletion, however ironic that may be. I knew that 95% of its usage was indeed disposable, and that it did have a good number of people who didn't even listen to and or care about video game music or OCR in general, but used it as a dumping ground for... whatever.

The 5% is what gave me pause. It's what made me check with Larry to see what he thought, and it's why deleting the forum in the fashion that we did honestly did seem like bad form to me. Did I succumb to peer pressure? In a sense... however, the mods and site staff are more than peers, they're people who spend more time on the site than I do, who contribute above and beyond to it, and when all of them recommend something and none of them object, it's less about peer pressure and more about trusting people you respect.

I knew there were legitimate users of the forum. I knew there were probably proponents, as Dhsu and The Coop have proven, that could articulate its merits, and who would oppose deletion without any warning whatsoever. This probably didn't bother anyone else in the room, but it did bother me. The counterargument against warning was that it would cause a massive backlash and that the other forums would suffer the consequences. That ended up happening to an extent, regardless, as poor Shariq was forced to mass-moderate an influx of inappropriate materials following UnMod's deletion. In a way, this validated the argument that advance warning wasn't such a great notion, but I still apologize to the few & proud legitimate visitors to the forum who wouldn't have reacted inappropriately and who deserved advance warning.

UnMod was originally formed so that those who wanted to bitch and moan about how much of a saucy asshole I was could do so, provided they didn't flood, spam, or troll. Somehow, that notion devolved into a place where people with almost no interest in OCR posted random shit. While a good deal of that random shit occasionally amused me, and there was some real keeper hentai posted, ultimately the more appropriate form of the forum is for discussion of topics not directly related to games, anime, or music, which are the three topics General Discussion focuses on.

As a side note, yes, it's a little goofy to think that anything can be "off-topic" to "general" discussion; we might find a way to semantically clarify this discrepancy further.

We're waiting to create the "Off-topic" forum specifically because we don't want the appearance of simply renaming UnMod. We want to start from a clean slate, encourage threads like "and it made me smile" and similarly popular but also substantive conversation, and discourage using OCR as the forum equivalent of Sanford & Son's backyard.

Is that a feasible goal? Are ANY of the 5% of UnMod's cooler folks that actually do give a damn about OCR going to stick around after their home has been abruptly ripped out from underneath them?

I don't know. I hope so. I do know that it wasn't my goal to make OCR "classier" by deleting the forum, but rather to alleviate stress on the part of the moderators, to eliminate what had largely become a dumping ground for people not remotely interested in OC ReMix, and to create a new forum that would allow for the best of what UnMod had to offer but with moderation in place to prevent anarchy.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, but I do have to disagree with the advice you were given.

Some of what was said in other threads regarding the abrupt deletion, centered around not being able to save the things that people wanted to... to archive the various threads, images, etc. Another part, was indeed the suddenness. One second it was there, the next, it was gone. For some, that came off as a considerable lack of respect towards the folks posting in UnMod. These things, coupled with the "retrobans" that were going on, and the on-going process of people trying to find out why they were banned (and possibly get unbanned) just fueled the reaction. It was like dumping lighter fluid on the fire that was still burning from the bans over the previous few weeks.

I can honesty say, I don't believe there would have been nearly the reaction there was, if people had just been given warning. Everyone knew it was going to be changed, so its eventual disappearance wasn't a hidden truth. I feel some of the folks there underestimated us. Of course, I guess it's a dead issue now.

As for Off Topic, I share your hopes of making it a good place. While there's still a lot of blanks left in terms of what can and can't take place there (image threads like "Holy Hot Asian Girls Batman!" and "Boobies", nudity in general, nonsensical threads like "What are you eating now?", etc.), I'm hoping a lot of what made UnMod fun to read and take part in will still be retained. I know thread breaks, Image Bombs, ROM links, loli, torrents of music that's for sale, and their ilk aren't allowed. But right now, I believe there are a lot of people waiting to see what will be allowed. I know I'll still be here, but others are sitting on the fence waiting for that info.

[SilentHinata]

I love you coop.

[SilentHinata]

Oh, and by the way, me getting a temp ban for "spamming" and posting on 8 threads is a JUST A LITTLE retarded.

[OverCoat]

and there was some real keeper hentai posted

GLAD I COULD HELP ( ﾟ ヮﾟ)

[Corporal Eschebone]

Gragh, once again Coop shows his boundless wisdom before I got a chance to get my thoughts together. Damn you, Coop!

Still, it's nice to know that you care, DJP. <3 But I hope that you'll come to comprehend all that's happened so you'll know why we feel the way we do. The bannings, the powertrips, the dickery on IRC, the way we interpreted the pictures Pixie posted of the party, and the way UnMod went out as a whole... It's all too much, you know?

[The Vagrance]

This topic deserves a response from yours truly, and I apologize for not making one sooner. I'm a bit sick, and when I'm working in DC I have limited access to the net.

Of everyone in the room that wished UnMod gone, I was probably the most reticent about its deletion, however ironic that may be. I knew that 95% of its usage was indeed disposable, and that it did have a good number of people who didn't even listen to and or care about video game music or OCR in general, but used it as a dumping ground for... whatever.

The 5% is what gave me pause. It's what made me check with Larry to see what he thought, and it's why deleting the forum in the fashion that we did honestly did seem like bad form to me. Did I succumb to peer pressure? In a sense... however, the mods and site staff are more than peers, they're people who spend more time on the site than I do, who contribute above and beyond to it, and when all of them recommend something and none of them object, it's less about peer pressure and more about trusting people you respect.

I knew there were legitimate users of the forum. I knew there were probably proponents, as Dhsu and The Coop have proven, that could articulate its merits, and who would oppose deletion without any warning whatsoever. This probably didn't bother anyone else in the room, but it did bother me. The counterargument against warning was that it would cause a massive backlash and that the other forums would suffer the consequences. That ended up happening to an extent, regardless, as poor Shariq was forced to mass-moderate an influx of inappropriate materials following UnMod's deletion. In a way, this validated the argument that advance warning wasn't such a great notion, but I still apologize to the few & proud legitimate visitors to the forum who wouldn't have reacted inappropriately and who deserved advance warning.

UnMod was originally formed so that those who wanted to bitch and moan about how much of a saucy asshole I was could do so, provided they didn't flood, spam, or troll. Somehow, that notion devolved into a place where people with almost no interest in OCR posted random shit. While a good deal of that random shit occasionally amused me, and there was some real keeper hentai posted, ultimately the more appropriate form of the forum is for discussion of topics not directly related to games, anime, or music, which are the three topics General Discussion focuses on.

As a side note, yes, it's a little goofy to think that anything can be "off-topic" to "general" discussion; we might find a way to semantically clarify this discrepancy further.

We're waiting to create the "Off-topic" forum specifically because we don't want the appearance of simply renaming UnMod. We want to start from a clean slate, encourage threads like "and it made me smile" and similarly popular but also substantive conversation, and discourage using OCR as the forum equivalent of Sanford & Son's backyard.

Is that a feasible goal? Are ANY of the 5% of UnMod's cooler folks that actually do give a damn about OCR going to stick around after their home has been abruptly ripped out from underneath them?

I don't know. I hope so. I do know that it wasn't my goal to make OCR "classier" by deleting the forum, but rather to alleviate stress on the part of the moderators, to eliminate what had largely become a dumping ground for people not remotely interested in OC ReMix, and to create a new forum that would allow for the best of what UnMod had to offer but with moderation in place to prevent anarchy.

Finally, someone on the staff who gives a thorough and well-thought out response about the matter without saying how terrible Unmod was and how there was nothing worth saving.

[RocketSniper]

Coop for forum president!

[Gollgagh]

Finally, someone on the staff who gives a thorough and well-thought out response about the matter without saying how terrible Unmod was and how there was nothing worth saving.

Haha, the staff?

I think you mean "The Boss."

[Shas'vre]

First off I'd like to publically apologize for spamming GenDisc earlier. Second, I'm forced to agree with my esteemed colleagues here in saying that any sort of forum intended to replace Unmod really won't do the job. The forum's deletion has rent a gash in the old Unmod populace that won't soon heal over; I doubt it ever will. Unmod is gone for good, but fragments of it can still be found in places like Gerbilfat and .org.

[Kureejii Lea]

Nice to hear that from you, djp.

The bannings, the powertrips, the dickery on IRC, the way we interpreted the pictures Pixie posted of the party, and the way UnMod went out as a whole... It's all too much, you know?

Indeed. I think it actually bothers me on priciple more than it does personally (despite that I'd been a part of UnMod since 2002 as well as helping run a site project for almost two years now). I'm sorry, but I have to say that the recent behaviour of certain individuals has come off as petty, immature and, frankly, disgusting. It really shouldn't have come to this.

[Kingpun]

I'd like to thank Eulogic for the maturity of his response to this situation. I think optimism like his is what we need in order to reforge OCR forums into a strong community with a good focus on what this website is really about.

[The Instrument of GAWD]

It's still ass tho'. The emotional damage has been done, ya know?

[zircon]

Guys, regarding the middle finger picture, for one thing the photo wasn't even pixie's idea. Neither was posting it for that matter. She *resisted* as a matter of fact, contrary to what you might think! Everyone except one or two people in the room was going along with the fun and several people even took the same picture and were going to post it (I don't think they've actually gotten around to uploading anything yet).

No sense in pinning the blame on just her. Everyone (including her) is ready to move on here, as Bahamut and Dave stated.

Edit: Jose and fivre both posted pretty much the same series of pictures.

Oh boy, Dave's deleting UnMod! Moguta, Darangen, Bahamut D-Lux, pixietricks, someone I forget, and what are probably parts of Taucer and Mephisto's heads anxiously look on.

...Damn tubes are clogged.

djpretzel tells us the story of UnMod's creation...

...then we all say goodbye to it.

[WesPip]

I'd like to point something out that probly won't be responded to, but I feel the need to point it out nonetheless.

In a sense... however, the mods and site staff are more than peers, they're people who spend more time on the site than I do, who contribute above and beyond to it, and when all of them recommend something and none of them object, it's less about peer pressure and more about trusting people you respect.

The problem with this is, while they all agreed with each other than UnMod had to go, it's because none of them are UnModders. Had you on your staff any UnModder [though to be fair, virtually none would be suitable, but The Coop comes to mind], then I'm quite sure there would've been a vocal and concise set counterpoints presented (Liontamer and Darkesword were the closest things the community had to "UnModders" as far as mods go, and obviously neither was one at heart). While I understand that UnMod would, despite being "unmoderated", create more work for mods, I find it hard to believe that it was substantial, based on how little of what was posted was actually illegal and/or in direct violation of UnMod's rules and as such not necessary work for a moderator [and, once again to be fair, we did have a LOT of shit to sort through to find the good stuff, but we did so individually, not with the help of moderation].

I suppose the main point here is, of course they all wanted it deleted, as none of them made their homes there (or even visited those disfunctional relatives who had).

However, I still find it considerate of you to take the time to explain your decision in more detail than the other staff had so far been willing or able to do. So thanks for that, at least.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Sorta late to the party, but I wonder if I need to f'n moderate myself now.

BTW, WTF is .org? Not that I really care anyway.

I sorta saw this coming a mile away. I thought it'd happen earlier though.

[pak2rat]

I'd like to point something out that probly won't be responded to, but I feel the need to point it out nonetheless.

The problem with this is, while they all agreed with each other than UnMod had to go, it's because none of them are UnModders. Had you on your staff any UnModder [though to be fair, virtually none would be suitable, but The Coop comes to mind], then I'm quite sure there would've been a vocal and concise set counterpoints presented (Liontamer and Darkesword were the closest things the community had to "UnModders" as far as mods go, and obviously neither was one at heart). While I understand that UnMod would, despite being "unmoderated", create more work for mods, I find it hard to believe that it was substantial, based on how little of what was posted was actually illegal and/or in direct violation of UnMod's rules and as such not necessary work for a moderator [and, once again to be fair, we did have a LOT of shit to sort through to find the good stuff, but we did so individually, not with the help of moderation].

I suppose the main point here is, of course they all wanted it deleted, as none of them made their homes there (or even visited those disfunctional relatives who had).

However, I still find it considerate of you to take the time to explain your decision in more detail than the other staff had so far been willing or able to do. So thanks for that, at least.

I agree. I have been a lurker for a while, occasionally making posts. I found a home on Unmod and visited frequently. People complained about the fad threads, but those were half the fun. Last week, I logged on and noticed many of the popular posters getting banned. There was no warnings of a crack down, no satisfying explanations, and it seemed... cold. My question here is, do the other staff members have a heart? Did they feel any sympathy at all? Have they no shame? I've read this and not seen any real sense of caring from anyone other than DJP. I've lost much of the respect I used to have from the apparent callousness of much of the staff as they do not explain why they advised DJP to delete the forums.

There also seemed to be a lack of empathy. How would Gen Discers feel if tomorrow, without warning, THEIR home is deleted? In my opinion, OCRemix FAILED as a community. to quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community ...

"Social capital

Main article: Social capital

If the sense of community exists, both freedom and security exist as well. The community then takes on a life of its own, as people become free enough to share and secure enough to get along. The sense of connectedness and formation of social networks comprise what has become known as social capital.[3]

Social capital is defined by Robert D. Putnam as "the collective value of all social networks (who people know) and the inclinations that arise from these networks to do things for each other (norms of reciprocity)." Social capital in action can be seen in groups of varying formality, including neighbors keeping an eye on each others' homes. However, as Putnam notes in Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community (2000), social capital has been falling in the United States. Putnam found that over the past 25 years, attendance at club meetings has fallen 58 percent, family dinners are down 33 percent, and having friends visit has fallen 45 percent.[4]

Western cultures are thus said to be losing the spirit of community that once were found in institutions including churches and community centers. Sociologist Ray Oldenburg states in The Great Good Place that people need three places: 1) The home, 2) the workplace, and, 3) the community hangout or gathering place.[5]

With this philosophy in mind, many grassroots efforts such as The Project for Public Spaces are being started to create this "Third Place" in communities. They are taking form in independent bookstores, coffeehouses, local pubs and through many innovative means to create the social capital needed to foster the sense and spirit of community.[6]"

We felt secure in our Unmod, with our friends and enemies alike. There were good times and bad times, but that is what makes things great. This was our place to meet. We knew each other, mocked each other, and supported each other. To those that have the "good riddance" mentality, is our community REALLY that different than Gen Disc? There are minor differences, but that is bound to happen. Gen Disc and Unmod are places for us to BS. Unmod is simply a NC-17 version of Gen Disc.

To those that believe OT will fix things, you are sadly mistaken. The bans have created much bitterness in the Unmod community, leaving us feeling ostricized and oppressed. The freedom we enjoyed so much is now at an end as many will be paranoid of future bans, taking away that final thing that we dedicated our community to: Freedom.

As for the pics, they were in VERY bad taste, regardless of intent. I'm on that complains about people being to easily offended, too. It takes a LOT to find something offensive. I don't know about the rest of my fellow Unmoders, but I would like following:

1) Reason the pics were allowed to be taken.

2) Reason why the pics were posted.

3) Reason why there is no public apology for the pictures.

I see a severe lack of accountability on this issue. All that contributed to the pics ended up pouring salt in a deep wound, creating a bigger gap than the society on this site has ever known. It is time for them to stop making excuses and just admit it was not in good taste and act like a mature adult about it.

I'm ashamed at ALL sides in this issue in the fact that the staff refused a compromise on the matter to save the society of OCRemix, to the Gen Discers that are pouring salt on the wounds, and the Unmodders that fueled the justification of the deletion of Unmod.

[Vig]

The problem with this is, while they all agreed with each other than UnMod had to go, it's because none of them are UnModders.

For what it's worth (not much, obviously) I have been a vocal advocate for UnMod as a community and a forum for a long time. In the end this didn't amount to anything because literally NONE of the mods are sympathetic to the very concept. An unfortunate elitism, a prevailing attitude that people who post primarily in unmod are less important than the rest of the OCR fanbase, coupled with the understandable prejudice caused by interacting with "unmod" almost solely when retards would venture out to cause trouble has formed an OCR mod staff that has really no sympathy or understanding for unmod at any level.

It's unfortunate. This has been a large part of the reason why things have been so out of control lately (the other part being that lots of people in unmod have reacted in an immature and unproductive manner). Dave's post doesnt suprise me at all. He has always been a bigger fan of unmod than anyone on the mod staff. As someone who has appreciated the unmod community over the years, I do have high hopes for offtop.

And for the record, I think Coop would be a fantastic mod for that forum, and I have reccommended that he be considered for the position.