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[Palpable]

My own thoughts: I tend to find that tags are just a tool for finding things. I don't think the existence of these tools results in any less music, even less variety of music, being heard, but usually has the opposite effect.

The downside mentioned in the FAQ is that it means people won't give things a chance, but I think that is absolutely not true. Technically this information is already there in the form of write-ups, it's just not easy to use. If you can't stand to listen to country, djp's write-up will mention it's country, and the people who truly didn't want to hear it will stop right there. If people who aren't usually into country end up checking it out, it's because they want to give it a chance, or it's featured on the front page, or it's from a game or artist they like.

To give you an example from my own life, I couldn't stand jazz for a while until my friend turned me on to Steely Dan. My first reaction to them was "yuck, jazz" until I realized it was the group that did "Do It Again" and "Peg", songs I liked which are more pop than jazz. I got way into the group and got exposure to their more jazzy songs, eventually starting to appreciate the genre more, and because of them I branched into a lot more jazz.

In my mind, more information is only a good thing, because it's the connections between things that help you branch out, not the lack of them. With tags, I could see a techno-head finding out that a techno song he likes uses steel guitar and then checking out more songs with steel guitar, dipping into genres he thought he didn't like. Or checking out a techno/rap hybrid song that he might have dismissed initially, if he scanned over djp's write-up and just saw "rap".

Then of course, you just get the advantage of helping out the person who really does only like one genre. Even they would get to listen to more music as a result of tags.

[m68030]

I thought this is what Last.FM's tagging system was for?

[DarkeSword]

I've been saying that we should tag remixes with descriptors (not genres) for years.

I thought this is what Last.FM's tagging system was for?

Ha. Take a look at all of the OC ReMixes on Last.FM. "video game music" "remix" "oc remix"

That's really great.

[anosou]

The list I had in mind would be something like:

Electronica

Dance

Trance

Drum 'n' Bass

Accoustic

Beep-boop

Vocal

Metal

Hip Hop

Ambient

Orchestral

Big Band

Mustin

...what now?

[Tex]

Mustin... more like gigasamples :[

[Gollgagh]

oh rofl I didn't even see that

[m68030]

I've been saying that we should tag remixes with descriptors (not genres) for years.

Ha. Take a look at all of the OC ReMixes on Last.FM. "video game music" "remix" "oc remix"

That's really great.

I understand in the current state it's unworkable, but that wouldn't prevent it from being used hence forth..

When we started the review forum, we went and back-reviewed all some 900 remixes so there would be at least something there. If tracks started getting tagged with both 'ocremix' and some other descriptor, it wouldn't take very long for a flashmob of supporters here to blast through the entire catalog with at least a start of something workable.

If not last.fm, then certainly some other system exists for the quantitative description of music that could be leveraged to give a little more insight into the nature of what exists here.

[djpretzel]

Last.fm is one option, but honestly the way they handled disabling their embedded player without notifying webmasters first left a really bad taste in my mouth... in my opinion they don't have their shit together, and I don't want to rely on them for much of anything, much as I like certain aspects of their site/technology.

The easiest option is enabling thread tagging, supported in vBulletin 3.8, for the remix reviews forum, and then potentially pulling that data for display on the main mix page, although simply having it on the forums, with the ability to jump to the mix writeup from review threads, might be sufficient.

We're discussing this internally... we might put it to a panel vote and/or community vote, or simply implement something in "trial" mode.

[prophetik music]

does thread tagging allow for a visual tag cloud and searching, like through all remixes? if so, that'd be good enough for someone like me who just wants to be able to go through and stick some labels on tracks.

of course, there'd have to be some way to limit it only to review threads.

[Dhsu]

Although as other people have brought up, there will probably need to be some way to keep people from making inaccurate and/or useless tags. Maybe restrict it to a new "reviewer" forum group or something.

[prophetik music]

or have some people who are allowed to delete tags.

having a jillion tags per song helps too, since the best ones will be repeated a lot. if you can only pick tags out of a group of them (like, ethnic, voice, jazz, strings, etc), that'd help too.

[djpretzel]

Need to check 100% but pretty sure vb allows moderator creation of tags and approval of user-submitted tags. We'd start with tags created by myself & the panel and approve things that made sense. Alas, Mustin would not get his own tag.

[m68030]

Can we get a 'bad tuna' tag? (:

[Elex Synn]

or have some people who are allowed to delete tags.

having a jillion tags per song helps too, since the best ones will be repeated a lot. if you can only pick tags out of a group of them (like, ethnic, voice, jazz, strings, etc), that'd help too.

Speaking of which what if something was in place that only displayed the tags with the highest repeated usage? In other words if the majority of people tag a song a particular tag (500+ tags) and you end up with the occasional jackass who throws a J-pop tag on a clearly classical song it won't flag the song as such on the tag search engine or what not?

Hmmm.. Y'know this made more sense when I was saying it in my head...

[Mustin]

...and approve things that made sense. Alas, Mustin would not get his own tag.

I'm sorry, how does that NOT make sense?

[goes back to his "Gigasamples," of which he has zero of]

[K.B.]

People are scared that if you tag the music everybody would go straight to trance or rock and avoid the country and such.

Way too much of that around.

As an outstanding coincidence, I just today rediscovered and put on repeat the awesomeness of http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01702/. Unless the tag would be Mazedude's review then it would be wrong.

I don't see the helpfulness of tags, but as long as they aren't in-your-face like they are at remix.thasauce then I think most listeners (I can't speak for remixers, of course) would be ok with their addition. I'd still very much like a way to disable them if they do get added.

[FR]

It was an example.

The real reason there are no tags is...

tagging the music would mean no one would listen to djp's "hillbilly" remix.

[Tex]

Let's play some BUBBLE BOBBLE! Yeehaa!

[Echbel]

P.S. - I love that I'm my own genre hahaha

I am glad someone noticed this at all, given the way this thread has gone.

The fact that you yourself clicked on the thread and were the first to notice it, however, truly makes my day.

@ DJPretzel: Glad to hear you guys are working on a possible solution. For what it's worth, even though I promised myself I would stop listening to the hillbilly mix, I go back to it every couple of months and play it like 5 times in a row. Willingly, even though I know it will get stuck in my head. And then after embarrassing myself for a few days at work, in the store, while driving, and anywhere else I might accidentally singing to myself I once again promise not to listen to it... for a while.

Seriously it's one of the catchiest mixes, and it always starts a conversation.

e

edit: making Mustin his own genre was a serious suggestion.

[Reaif]

I can hardly express how much I support the idea of having some kind of tagging system. It's great when you have memorized a bunch of songs you want to listen to, but I will very often get in the mood for piano, and have only a few mixes that come up when I search for piano (ie, they have piano somewhere in their title), but being able to see a list of mixes that predominantly feature a given instrument... I would listen to remixes WAY more often.

I think a tagging system would really help people like me (the musically disinclined), who don't have the desire/patience/know-how to make music, to really contribute to the remixing community. Sure there is a forum here which people can throw out their nonsensical ramblings, but this would really encourage more participation in the music part of the site.

In summary, I don't even really care if regular users are allowed to add/edit tags. Mostly I would like to see some kind of organization system will allow one to browse the instrumental content. I could care less what genre it is, but sometimes I wanna hear guitars, and sometimes I want to hear piano.

OK. End of spiel.

[m68030]

My daughter has a 'Farm Animals' toy with small animals that make noises when pressed...

The sheep noise is almost identical to the Hillbilly remix and I cannot help but hear DJP say "Hey bubba!" every time she presses it.

[KyleJCrb]

Hey dudes, check it out: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/tags.php

[Liontamer]

Hey dudes, check it out: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/tags.php

Just noting that that list is not complete, and we're not looking for suggestions until we fully populate the list with the tags we've come up with. As you may be able to see, we're going beyond genre to come up with a broader set of tags that are more useful.

[prophetik music]

this could wind up being pretty awesome.

[Palpable]

After we finish the first pass, I definitely want to get people to come up with new tags for us and double-check certain things. I think already we're missing some mood tags that could be good to have.