The Dark Knight

[Cottus and Gyes]

NO.

When Batman arrives at the Warehouse, he is visibly surprised to see Dent. He thought he was going for Rachel, that's it. That's all. End of story.

Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? The Joker even hints it in the movie!!

[Eten]

It's probably been said TO DEATH, but this to me, is single handedly, the greatest comic book movie I've seen yet. The film had a realistic feel. I didn't know what to think when they had Heath Ledger play Joker, until I actually saw the film.

Yes, I agree. I think there were two components that made this movie a hit with me, and probably for many others.

The first, this movie makes an excellent adaption from the original Batman and gets to use the best from what is already one of the most awesome Hero vs. Villian setup in comic books altogether. Batman is already one of the best superheroes ever created in look, theme, style, origins, and detail- much of which has been amply delivered to you in Batman begins and sustained in The Dark Knight(doesn't kill, no guns, broods on rooftops, wears a cape and scares criminals, etc.). The Joker is one of the most classically bad and evil villains of all time- with his seeming insanity on the surface and his twistedly brilliant scheming underneath, his obsession with batman, his laughs, jokes, sounds and appearance. The movie stays true, very much true, in this aspect to the source.

The Joker gives different accounts of his origins.

He can be taken out with a punch, yet can be viscous at the same time.

He's both brilliant in his scheming, a liar, and insane all at the same time.

Has no greater criminal motive than simply the fun he has in it and the will to cause chaos, not money or destroy Gotham, etc.

He's obsessed with Batman.("and I couldn't kill you! You're just too much fun.")

Then the second component. The movie is portrayed in a realistic sense, and a few of the details of the comics are dropped. The Joker's appearance isn't directly copied from the art of the comics, but instead made to take on a more realistic look of it. Things like that. For some reason, this makes the whole movie settle with the viewer very well with the average viewer.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I don't think anyone's going to agree that the movie wasn't hyped. That doesn't mean it's bad. In fact, it has no bearing on quality. He was just saying that hype made people want to watch a movie that they otherwise wouldn't get.

Thank you for saying that. Yes, as great as the movie was, the numbers does not lie. People are watching it for a lot of reasons and it IS a Batman movie. People are going to watch it on the hype and the name alone. I think it's fair to say that most of the audience probably aren't even comicbook fans or would normally would watch it had this movie not get the buzz (for good or bad reasons) and the rave it got.

I don't think tongue-in-cheek is the best description...it has a connotation of humor/irony, which in my opinion doesn't really apply to Joker switching the addresses.

......... what? That's what tongue-in-cheek means. Everything Joker does, you can't take them at face value since they're always threatening and more importantly, ironic.

[The Joker]

Spoilers, but really, who hasn't seen the movie at this point?

You know, I just rewatched the movie, & I noticed a theme that I missed the firt time through. The fine line between chance & choice. I noticed it when the "tiny" Lister threw the detonater out the window in the boat, he made a choice, threw chance out the window.

Secondly, when Dent threw the coin in the air for Gordons' son, everyone assumes it would have landed good side no matter what. The only reason it did land good side up, is because Batman made a choice. He didn't let something bad happen. It's just one more little thing that made me friggin love this movie even more.

[Dhsu]

......... what? That's what tongue-in-cheek means. Everything Joker does, you can't take them at face value since they're always threatening and more importantly, ironic.

Switching the addresses wasn't ironic, it was just a trick. It's ironic if the audience knows something Batman doesn't, but that's not the case here. Unless you're watching it the second time, you find out about the switch at the same time as Batman.

[Lotd2242]

Switching the addresses wasn't ironic, it was just a trick. It's ironic if the audience knows something Batman doesn't, but that's not the case here. Unless you're watching it the second time, you find out about the switch at the same time as Batman.

I thought it was blatantly obvious that the Joker mixed up the addresses when I saw the movie. Most of the "twists" in this movie were easy to spot way before they happened.

I still wouldn't call it ironic though.

[defender!!]

When Batman arrives at the Warehouse, he is visibly surprised to see Dent.

i saw the movie twice and didn't see any such visual cue.

i already admitted that i should've pieced it together before, so chill out sourpuss.

[The Pezman]

The only ones that don't get it are Harvey Dent, who pretty much goes nuts anyway, and everyone in the audience that just doesn't pay enough attention to what they're watching.

This is not a confusing movie. Granted, it doesn't hold your hand either, but if a person pays attention, they'll see that everything fits fairly well.

What the hell, man? You can disagree with me, but there's no reason to put me down.

[Bleck]

i saw the movie twice and didn't see any such visual cue.

i already admitted that i should've pieced it together before, so chill out sourpuss.

I've seen the movie six times and I can pretty much remember exactly what happens

also I am pretty sure you admitted no such thing so just stop posting about it thanks

[Chuckles]

I've seen the movie six times.

Ok then. You win.

[EdgeCrusher]

Thank you for saying that. Yes, as great as the movie was, the numbers does not lie. People are watching it for a lot of reasons and it IS a Batman movie. People are going to watch it on the hype and the name alone. I think it's fair to say that most of the audience probably aren't even comicbook fans or would normally would watch it had this movie not get the buzz (for good or bad reasons) and the rave it got.

......... what? That's what tongue-in-cheek means. Everything Joker does, you can't take them at face value since they're always threatening and more importantly, ironic.

Ironic? ROFL! He is in no way ironic. All of his destruction and death are not "ironic" as everything that happened happened the way he wanted it to due to trickery and pure insanity. Nothing was "ironic". But post another paragraph backpedaling.

[defender!!]

also I am pretty sure you admitted no such thing so just stop posting about it thanks

--

a bit out there, yeah. i also never saw the first movie and didn't know how close he was to dawes or how committed he would be to saving her.

that, and gordon showing up at the other place really should've tipped me off.

i'm just dumb

just settle down there, champ.

[Kenobio]

What the hell, man? You can disagree with me, but there's no reason to put me down.

Ah, don't let it bug you--he's just PMSing again.

[defender!!]

seriously, why the hell is everyone so hostile about what did or didn't or should or shouldn't have happened in the damn movie

i guess they're just victims of the batmania

[The Joker]

It's because they all got the left side of their respective heads burnt.

[friendlyHunter]

It's because they all got the left side of their respective heads burnt.

Personally, I thought the movie was...

*coin lands with burned side up*

...full of plot holes and uninspired dialog and action. The Joker wasn't scary or funny, the chase scene made no sense at all, and there was no tension whatsoever due to the bad acting of all the main characters. Except for Two-Face and his pleasing coin-tossery - what an admirable guy!

[Dhsu]

What the hell, man? You can disagree with me, but there's no reason to put me down.

I don't think saying you weren't paying enough attention really counts as a putdown. I missed it too, and it was definitely because I wasn't paying attention.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Ironic? ROFL! He is in no way ironic. All of his destruction and death are not "ironic" as everything that happened happened the way he wanted it to due to trickery and pure insanity. Nothing was "ironic". But post another paragraph backpedaling.

The irony is how he basically makes a mockery of all human life and law and order he comes across. We don't really get a reasoning for why he does it and he most definitely is insane (did I ever disagree?), but I think that's basically the lore of the Joker throughout. The way he taunts Batman and becomes a counter to all the order and justice Batman tries to dish out, I think that was one of the central themes of the whole movie. Everything he says or acts upon as a form of joke is basically a no laughing matter for everyone else.

[JJT]

The irony is how he basically makes a mockery of all human life and law and order he comes across.

i·ro·ny

1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.

2.Literature.

a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.

The Joker is established early on as a sociopath. If we're going to go by the definition of irony than there is nothing ironic about the Joker in this film. If you want, we can make up a different meaning for the word. Maybe it can mean "likes candy."

[I-n-j-i-n]

So what part of that definition didn't fit it anyway? Joker always says one thing or intends it as a joke but it always has a macabre side to it. If you can't be convinced of it, then don't be. Not my business to get tangled on a word.

[Dhsu]

1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.

2.Literature.

a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.

^ probably that part

Neither Joker nor the movie did anything to convey or indicate anything opposite of what he said when he told him the addresses...it was just a straight-up lie. You don't say someone's being ironic when they lie.

What's ironic is when Batman demands that Joker "let her go." He clearly meant the opposite of what he actually said.

[EdgeCrusher]

INJIN is as dense as a 14 year old teenage girl. Just ignore him.

[rem]

Jesus Christ what are you people arguing about???

In other news is Dent definitely, definitely dead? I'm hearing differing voices on this one. Also I waited through the credits to see a scene with Dent alive (I BAWWWWWWed when I didn't see anything)

[JH Sounds]

Also I waited through the credits to see a scene with Dent alive (I BAWWWWWWed when I didn't see anything)

Heh, in the theater I went to the cleaning crew was like "Dude, there's no secret ending! I need to sweep in the rows now."

[dPaladin]

Jesus Christ what are you people arguing about???

In other news is Dent definitely, definitely dead? I'm hearing differing voices on this one. Also I waited through the credits to see a scene with Dent alive (I BAWWWWWWed when I didn't see anything)

Originally, Two Face was the scourge of Gotham for a long time. It seems odd to kill him after like 20 minutes. Also, the only time they say he's dead is in a funeral for the public, which means nothing because of the whole effort to keep his image clean.