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Schwaltzvald

The Dark Knight

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^ probably that part

Neither Joker nor the movie did anything to convey or indicate anything opposite of what he said when he told him the addresses...it was just a straight-up lie. You don't say someone's being ironic when they lie.

What's ironic is when Batman demands that Joker "let her go." He clearly meant the opposite of what he actually said.

Missing the whole point why I point out the irony. In that specific case, you're right. But in terms of Joker as an antithesis to Batman, to his very jokes which basically aren't funny to every one of his victims via his dark, ironic sense of humor, those are totally different ideas. Seriously, how is this hard to comprehend? And really, this is an argument? Who said this was an argument? So I'm saying one thing and if someone disagrees, then that's that. Don't spin it off into something that wasn't even implied originally. Apparently some people can't help but put everything I say into some sort of a subversive rant while I'm only putting face value into it all. Let me say "Joker is a bad guy". And we'll see a dozen raving posts about why that is false. "Batman is a good guy". Have fun.

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You were very clearly referring to that specific scene as "tongue-in-cheek," so I debated your word usage you on that specific scene...at what point did I "miss the whole point"? I'm not the one who spun things off here...even though I don't think word definitions are usually something you can just agree to disagree on, I was fine with leaving it at the initial correction. But you decided to argue about it, and when other people jumped in, you went off on some tangent about Joker as an antithesis to Batman, which nobody was talking about in the first place. So much for "that's that."

You rants aren't subversive, they're just wrong sometimes. Which is fine, we're all wrong at one point or another, but you should expect to be called out on it when you are.

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I'd like to point out that arguing about semantics is bad if pretty much anyone does it. That said, the use of "irony" was wrong, but I remember seeing "tongue in cheek" used a page or three back, and that definitely applies to a couple of scenes in the movie. I don't remember who said it and who shot it down, and God knows I don't care enough to read it over again. I feel bad enough for contributing to this banal internet debate.

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I simply think we were talking about two different things altogether and maybe I didn't try to make the distinction. Either way, I don't really find what to even argue about here.

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I'd like to point out that arguing about semantics is bad if pretty much anyone does it.

Well, it's not just semantics if the word makes the actual statement off-base. It's not that he could've used a better word, it's that he used the wrong word.

But yeah, that was a lame derail and I apologize.

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IIT: Injin was wrong, and sounded like Alanis Morissette.

Great movie, great joker, and well, too many people with opinions formed on characters they do not know.

Third movie needs Clayface, Freeze, or Devito's Penguin.

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I'd like to see a superhero movie in an established franchise where another superhero shows up and starts stepping on the toes of the established superhero.

Then shit goes down.

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That's why when Azel was Batman after Bruce's back was broken by Bane, Bruce got so mad. Because Azel did not have a "no kill" rule.

Azel? Pardons, but I believe you mean AzRAel. Or Az-Bats, unofficially.

Anyway, yes, sickeningly sweet ass movie! The only complaint I have is that we'll not see HeathJoker with a Harley Quinn in a future sequel. That's not the movies fault, and I know that, but still, it's disappointing.

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I just saw it yesterday, and I thought it was absolutely brilliant.

I think by far the best part was the social/political comentary, and the way it addressed the issues it brought up. While tons of movies have social and political comentary, the Dark Night is unique in that it attacks both sides of the issues it brings up, rather than trying to drive home one specific side of the issue.

It shows the incredible power of hope, with two ships full of people potentially sacrificing themselves by not blowing the other up, while at the exact same time showing that even the greatest and purest of white knights can be corrupted. It pointedly shows us just how effective domestic surveillance can be at catching criminals, but just as pointedly shows us that it is unethical and immoral for anybody to have that sort of power. It presents us with a mob of treacherous street thugs who have no rules, no loyalty, not a shred of decency, yet also presents us with a ship full of convicted murderers who collectively choose to sacrifice themselves rather than blow up a ship full of civilians.

It is simultaneously hopefull and cynical, and goes to great lengths to show us both the height of human decency and the depths of dispair and treachery.

This movie is, in my opinion, a work of absolute genius.

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I'd like to see a superhero movie in an established franchise where another superhero shows up and starts stepping on the toes of the established superhero.

Then shit goes down.

Huntress anyone?!?!?!?!

Only partially joking, actually. Read Huntress: Year One, the 6-issue mini that just concluded. The character would actually work quite well in Nolan & Goyer's Bat-verse.

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I'd like to see a superhero movie in an established franchise where another superhero shows up and starts stepping on the toes of the established superhero.

I was thinking something similar the other day, how a lot of shows tend to have a cast of characters where each person has their defined and distinctive role or personality. But I was thinking it would be kind of interesting to stick in two characters who both fill the same "niche," and see how they interact.

Off the top of my head, the best example I could think of would be taking the original Star Trek, and having two "Captain Kirks" on the crew. Put one in a subordinate position to the other, and see what happens. Do they complement each other, do they clash, are they friends, or are they enemies?

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I won't mind a Batman vs Batman movie. Some people thought that was going to happen because the early reviews talked about the imposter Batmans. Maybe a nihilistic, kill-all-criminals Batman vs the actual Bale Batman. They had a lot of similar angles in the comic book too.

Also, I'm not sure what to think about the rumor of having Angelina Jolie become Catwoman or having another Penguin in there. Maybe Nolan fashioned some aspects of the old 89 Batman movies (Joker, then Catwoman/Penguin + the come-apart Batmobile. Maybe a Batplane next, just like in 89 one?).

That said, I thought the depiction of Penguin (despite the ridiculous Penguins and the circus freaks) was as good as it probably could get and I don't think Jolie can touch the Michelle Pfeiffer Catwoman. I wish Nolan tries Mr Freeze again and make him creepy or something.

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Huntress anyone?!?!?!?!

Only partially joking, actually. Read Huntress: Year One, the 6-issue mini that just concluded. The character would actually work quite well in Nolan & Goyer's Bat-verse.

Hmmm, Huntress for the first 25% of the movie, throw in Catwoman at that point, and eventually Mandragora.

By the way: DeVito = Definitive Penguin.

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Honestly, and I know I'm going to have random stuff thrown at me from the street for saying this, but after watching new The Batman series, and seeing how animated they've made Penguin, I daresay Jack Black could pull it off if he was hired.

But I would love to see Jim Carrey take the Riddler back.

Also, I vote Kate Beckinsale as Poison Ivy.

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No.

Fuck Jim Carrey, and fuck his take on the Riddler.

The Riddler isn't supposed to be a spastic fucktard who jumps up and down and giggles in green spandex with question marks on it. The Riddler is supposed to be an extremely intelligent (dare I say, genius), yet brutal villain.

Think TAS, but not G-Rated.

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No.

Fuck Jim Carrey, and fuck his take on the Riddler.

The Riddler isn't supposed to be a spastic fucktard who jumps up and down and giggles in green spandex with question marks on it. The Riddler is supposed to be an extremely intelligent (dare I say, genius), yet brutal villain.

Think TAS, but not G-Rated.

This is nothing but truth.

Also, no woman on Earth can possibly pull off Poison Ivy.

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No.

Fuck Jim Carrey, and fuck his take on the Riddler.

The Riddler isn't supposed to be a spastic fucktard who jumps up and down and giggles in green spandex with question marks on it. The Riddler is supposed to be an extremely intelligent (dare I say, genius), yet brutal villain.

Think TAS, but not G-Rated.

To be fair to Carrey, he did a great job with the role he was given. It's just that that role wasn't The Riddler.

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To be fair to Carrey, he did a great job with the role he was given. It's just that that role wasn't The Riddler.

i agree with this. i loved his performance. although it seemed like a cartoon.

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