Looking for a collab partner

[CHIPP Damage]

I WAS looking for just ONE partner to do production for me on my Valkyrie Profile arrangement. However, the response was really really warm, so it's turned into a bit of a competition. So basically anyone who wants to take a stab at producing this thing, can do so. When everyone's done I'll announce the "winner," who's name will end up on the remix along with mine and then get submitted and subsequently rejected with possibly a "NO Override." HAHAHA! Just kidding. I doubt that will happen. In fact, I feel confident that this one will get accepted with the first submission. Either way let's do our best!

Game: Valkyrie Profile
Song: Behave Irrationally
Genre: Death Metal (perhaps a bit more brutal than Cursed Bloodline)
Program: Done with Sonar, but if you can do it in another program, that's fine.
Job Description: To take my pre-recorded guitars, drums, vocals, and bass and make them sound as "good" as possible while also giving attention to my "production requests" below.

Production Requests:
REVERB:
The second syllable of the word "Heaven" at 0:37
The final note of the lead guitar part at 3:54
The entire final guitar solo and more so than any other part.

CHORUS:
The last four notes in the lead guitar phrase at 3:43

UNORTHODOX/STUPID STUFF THAT I DON'T WANT CHANGED:
Having way too many kinds of really loud cymbals.
The part where I put a bit of flange on the tom drums.
Explosive sounding low tom drum hits at the end.

EVERYTHING ELSE:
1) Kick drum much heavier sounding than just the usual "click" that is the norm for metal.
2) Please make my toms, especially the lowest ones, WAY heavier. They seem to be so dang light right now.
3) Please make the words, "Jun" "Suo" "Shiho" "Yumei" in the beginning of the song, and "Ragnarok" "Einherjar" from the middle of the song very heavy and maybe even with a little chorus.
4) I don't know WHAT should be done, but can you make the line, "You have been chosen by Odin." have more impact, please?
5) Basically all of the guitars are free for you to EQ as you'd like, but the lead guitars at 3:07 sound so light for some reason. I leave them in your hands.
6) The explosive low tom drum hits at the end could be more explosive in my opinion.
7) One of the rhythm guitars at 4:34 has a dip in the volume for a moment, which was on purpose, but it's not creating the effect that I was going for. Please do something to it to make it sound cooler.

I think that's everything.

Contact:
You can respond in this thread, PM me, or talk to me on MSN Messenger or AIM.
MSN = chaahan@hotmail.com
AIM = Enta no Kamisama

Participants:
Legion303
Sixto
Fray
Suzumebachi
Fishy

File download:
I'll send you a private message about the FTP site that Legion303 was so kind to build for this. Make sure you say thank you to him in the thread if you download the files. I'm going PM style because it won't be good to have people who are just "checking it out" to also be taking up bandwidth by downloading it all.

This Remix is different from other remixes on the site. If it passes it will be the most brutal death metal remix (that I know of), and definitely the only Viking Death Metal on the site, and most importantly, the first Valkyrie Profile mix. I hope you'll join me. ^_^

Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
CHIPP Damage

[Legion303]

I beat you to the death metal thing by several years. :P
(And another one in judging.)

But anyhoo, I can do your bass and production work if you want. Although my bass is just guitar with pitch and formant transposition, so you could probably do that part yourself.

Let me know if you want to do it and I'll set up an FTP account for you to transfer wav (or FLAC) files.

-steve

[zircon]

Wrong forum; moved to workspace.

[CHIPP Damage]

Wrong forum; moved to workspace.

Sorry about that. Thank you.

I beat you to the death metal thing by several years. :P
(And another one in judging.)

But anyhoo, I can do your bass and production work if you want. Although my bass is just guitar with pitch and formant transposition, so you could probably do that part yourself.

Let me know if you want to do it and I'll set up an FTP account for you to transfer wav (or FLAC) files.

-steve

Are you talking about Phalanx? Well. . . I GUESS that counts. Hahaha. Damn, you beat me by like 13 years too! Well, I'd love for you to do it if you can. Gotta warn you though, this song is much longer, heavier, and more complicated than Phalanx. But I've got faith that you can do it. I've actually come a long way with it from the point I started. But since asking everyone for advice again and again wouldn't really constitute a remix that is entirely made by me. This means that your name being stuck onto this remix will also represent all the advice I've gotten from everyone else until now too. Let do it! Tell me what you want me to do, and I'll do it.

Can I listen to your newest death metal remix?

[Sixto]

I'd like to try, too.

[CHIPP Damage]

Holy crap! Sixto?! The dude with the prettiest guitar sound ever wants to produce MY Viking Death Metal song? Nuts! Thank you. I don't know what to do. Of course, if you want the music sent your way to play with, I'd send it to you but since Steve replied first, it's only fair that I let him have first dibs. But I'd LOVE to hear what you'd do with it even if it WASN'T going to be submitted to OCR. ^_^ Would you like to receive it? And if so, how would you like to receive it? (That sounds kinda funny.)

[HoboKa]

yaaay good luck on your collab Jahan :D:D:D

[Legion303]

Why don't you let us both work on it and choose the one you like better, since it's your remix? I think Sixto and I are both adult enough not to get our feelings hurt if we lose out. :P

I'll PM you the FTP info, then you can PM Sixto and I when you're done uploading and he can just leech the files from me.

-steve

PS: The production on Phalanx did suck even though I worked on it forever, but it was pretty old. The one I have up now is available at http://neutronstar.org/music/Steve_Pordon-Undying-Lizbeth's_Reawakening.mp3

[HoboKa]

actually Legion303 I might need your guitar skillz for a collab of mine on Tyrano Lair...got a new concept going and there's a guitar part in it ^^
Sixto can help me too if you want.

[Fray]

Why don't you let us both work on it and choose the one you like better, since it's your remix? I think Sixto and I are both adult enough not to get our feelings hurt if we lose out. :P

I'll PM you the FTP info, then you can PM Sixto and I when you're done uploading and he can just leech the files from me.

-steve

PS: The production on Phalanx did suck even though I worked on it forever, but it was pretty old. The one I have up now is available at http://neutronstar.org/music/Steve_Pordon-Undying-Lizbeth's_Reawakening.mp3

Mind if I d/l it too? I'm curious to give it a try.

[suzumebachi]

viking death metal song competition?

actually.......

that would be hella fun. i want in.

[Tensei]

Whoa, CHIPP is gonna to flip when he gets online in a few moments and he sees all these replies. =P

[CHIPP Damage]

WHOA! This is nuts! Like Tensei said, I am flipping. Thank you, so much everyone. I didn't think there'd be so many people who'd wanna work with little ol' CHIPP Damage.

Well, Legion was the first person to respond and I gave him first dibs because of that, but if he says that doesn't mind letting it be a competition then I know what I must do. Maybe I'll see if I can change the title of the thread.

So anyone who wants to produce this thing, is welcome to try and in the end I'll choose the one I like the best for submission. Later I'll put all my "production requests" in the first post. So everyone, just tell me how you want me to get the files to you and I'll do it. If it's FTP business, you'll have to give me step by step directions, cause I don't know how.

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE AND THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Feel free to contact me.

MSN = chaahan@hotmail.com
AIM = Enta no Kamisama

[djpretzel]

CHIPP Damage is the Official OCR Staff Japanese Translator; women swoon and artists everywhere rush to collab.

[HoboKa]

you didn't reply to my PM u bum djpretzel :(

[The Pezman]

Ditto.

10char

[CHIPP Damage]

Wow. Do I really deserve all these props? ^_^ Thank you.

OK! I finally finished taking care of EVERYTHING. ALL the information that the participants, or those who want to become participants, need is in the very first post. So go check it out, and download my 200Megs of WAV. files (Thank you Legion) and have at it. I hope a couple more people join this.

Assuming everyone who initially said that they'd like to do it confirms their participation, we've got:

Legion303
Sixto
Fray
Suzumebachi

Thanks guys. You're the best. I can't wait to hear how cool you make this song.

[Legion303]

I compressed the files down to about 200MB. If anyone's confused by the .tar.gz extension, WinRar definitely handles it and WinZip should as well.

-steve

[CHIPP Damage]

Hey guys, I'm gonna be out of town just for one day and one night. Legion, could you PM me your email address? I looked all over your profile page but couldn't find it. See you guys again soon. Suzumebachi, could you give me a confirmation of your participation, haven't heard anything from you since your original post. ^_^

[Fishy]

I'm totally up for some metal. It's puts hair on your chest.

[CHIPP Damage]

Alright! A warm welcome for Fishy! He's our 5th and newest contestant. Thank you for coming. I can't wait to hear the various production styles of you guys. More than one person has asked me about the drums and bass, and they in fact ARE from midi, so I'm trying to get the midis of those on the FTP site in case you want to tamper with them.

[CHIPP Damage]

I don't why I can't get my stuff on the FTP anymore, so if you want the midi of the drums and bass, just PM me your email address, please. Thank you. ^_^

[CHIPP Damage]

Is November 18th a fair enough deadline for you guys? I don't know how much people usually spend on this kind of thing. I know I spent 3 months just to make it sound below average. Hahaha. Until people start complaining, that's the date I'd like to go with.

So please send me a link or through email by. . .

NOVEMBER 18TH.

[Fray]

Thought it might be fun to post progress and talk about what we did.

http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v2.mp3

- Bumped up the volume on all the cymbals and hats. Toms too.
- Fed all the percussion as a group through the Cakewalk tape sim effect with medium saturation. It kinda helped take some of the "fake" sound out the drums and put them in the same space, meaning I could bump the volume up on them a bit without exposing anything unpleasant.
- Bumped up the low mids on the guitars to give them a more thick sound
- Swept along the EQ to find the nice growly parts of the vocals and boosted them a bit
- Put a high cut on the vocals to help disguise some digital clipping. I think the recording levels were set a bit too high when Chipp did the vocals, which I imagine can be tough not to do when you're screaming bloody murder into the microphone :P
- Put delay on the lead guitar parts to roughly match the original mix (it sounded pretty good).
- Compression on most of the pre-recorded parts to even out the levels. I used it pretty liberally because we're going more for ass kicking than subtle dynamics :P
- The usual dose of compression on the kick and snare.
- Tried to EQ the kick to get a little more "thud" out of it, but it's still a little too trebly I think.
- Put some of the standard death metal flangy stuff on the vocals. I plan to give them some more detailed treatment later, but I find once you do a bunch of automation and such it makes the track harder to deal with later.
- Put some light amp distortion on the bass to mask the syntheticness.

P.S. The lyrics are fucking hilarious :)

P.S.S. Fixed the link.

[Harmony]

Is the link busted for anyone else, or is that just me?

[Fray]

Jeez, way to go me. I forgot to check the link! It's fixed now.

[Sixto]

Just a little snippet of what I have so far.
http://tadakichi.baka.us/preview01.mp3

First thing, I took CHIPP's midi file and added my own drum and bass sounds. Made minimal changes to the actual midi so things don't sound so mechanical.
I cut up all of the vocals and put them in separate tracks for different flavors in different parts of the song.
This is probably the hardest track I've ever tried to mix. It's a real challenge, but it's fun and the track has actually grown on me. Still have a long ways to go, though.

[The Pezman]

As a n00b, this is informative for me to know just what might be involved in making a track.

I read that the drums and bass were MIDI. Doesn't that mean it's be relatively easy to add things like reverb and change the volume?

Also, I don't know how you can hear what the singer is saying. But I guess this is one reason I'm not the biggest fan of metal.

[Tensei]

By the way, is it me, or are the lead guitars out of tune at some points? I think a slight touch of pitch shifting could fix that.

[CHIPP Damage]

Come to think of it, even I don't know how you could understand what the singer said. . . And I'M the one who sang it. Hahaha! Thanks a lot guys.

Fray, I like your idea about talking about the progress. Legion won't be able to join that conversation until after this weekend, cause he's got lots of work, unfortunately.

As for the "out of tune guitars" I think it's just because I reversed the harmony. The original harmonies were much farther apart and I took the lower harmony and upped it 1 octave. Which means that big intervals like 7ths become as close as 2nds. I wonder if anyone knows what the hell I'm talking about right now. Hahaha! Other than that, I think they sound good. OR . . . Maybe you're just CRAZY! AAAHAHAHAAAA!

Fray, I don't know how you figured out what the heck I was saying but kudos to you. Tensei claims that he can understand death vocals too, but I totally don't believe him because he's from the Netherlands and that's reason enough. Hahaha!!!! Just kidding. Anyway, here are the lyrics.

Jun, sharpen the katanas.
Suo, bring the armor.
Shiho, sing your song of courage.
Yumei, raise the lapis high.

The war of 9 worlds has begun
and we are outnumbered 10 to 1.
Nanami takes the odds and evens them.
Tenchu raining down from heaven!

Ragnarok is unleashed across these worlds
I choose to fight in Hai-lan.
Battle screams sound faster than Heimdal's horn
when an arrow hits my shield.

A cloud of Weeping Lilly pollen is unleashed.
I fall to my knees
but there is no valkyrie.
I must journey across the rainbow bridge alone.

Skuld!
Where are the Einherjar?
This is Ragnarok.
Even the dead can't rest.

You have been chosen by Odin to turn the tide of Ragnarok.
Your deeds on Midgard are known to us. A warrior of legend to the Einherjar.
You must fight for the All-Father or the Yggdrasil will fall to the flames of Nifleheim

So take the Bahamut's Tear.
And take the Shining Bolt.
To take your army to Valhall
use the Swan Maiden's Cloak.
And fight like you are Aesir!

I thrust my sword through Surtur,
piercing his heart of flame.
And as I am engulfed in his fire
I see the shining blue armor descend.

Hope it makes you all laugh. ^_^ Now I wanna go listen to what Fray and Sixto have been doing.

[CHIPP Damage]

DUDE! It's so nuts how these two mixes are SOOOOO different sounding. I GUESS it's ok if I make minimal comments on the works in progress. Maybe just the one thing that stands out to me the most.

Fray. I dig the flange. I think maybe you might of used it too much. You applied it to the entire track right? I think it sounds pretty good on the low death voices but not so much the higher ones. I think it sounds PERFECT on the spoken word sections, though!

Sixto. I think your drum sounds definitely sound better than mine, although I think it's ALL extremely trebly. I know it's a work in progress though. Especially all those cymbals. They ring out ALL over the place. hahaha.

Both of you. Heavier bass drum.

Thanks guys. I'm totally stoked about these samples. I can't wait to hear the final versions and also hear something from the other 3 guys. ^_^

[Legion303]

http://neutronstar.org/music/valkyrie_v0.01.mp3

I haven't done much with it yet, just the basics. When you get a second could you upload the drum midi? Thanks.

-steve

[CHIPP Damage]

I just sent you the drum and bass midi by email. Let me know if you didn't receive it.

Dude, did you speed this up... like, a LOT? HAhahahAHA! It's funny dude! My voice is way higher and everything. LOL!

[Fray]

Oh, I probably only understood about 30% of the lyrics, but that was enough to get the gist of it. Probably helped that I'm vaguely familiar with the plot of Valkyrie Profile, having played part of the 2nd one.

Thanks for posting -- I think it's good to know what's being said for mixing purposes too :)

[Legion303]

Dude, did you speed this up... like, a LOT? HAhahahAHA! It's funny dude! My voice is way higher and everything. LOL!

Oops. The files are at 44KHz and I work in 48KHz in Cubase...good thing you pointed it out!

Try the link again. I converted it back down. I got the midi too, thanks.

-steve

[Sixto]

Here's an update.

http://tadakichi.baka.us/Sixto_Sounds/Audio/mixdown_03.mp3

Cymbals may still be a little loud, though. Still uncertain of how to process some of the vocal sections and lead guitars. Also been listening to Dimmu Borgir a lot lately, so I got curious as to how this would sound with a little bit of synthy strings on top.

[CHIPP Damage]

HAHAHAHAAAAA! This is nuts dude! Sixto, you are one crazy mofo. Hahaha! I don't know if the strings look is exactly what I'm going for, although they do add an interesting change in atmosphere.

I should have told you all from the beginning the band that I'm sort of trying to emulate. That band is Amon Amarth. The song God's of War Arise is a perfect example of the sound that I like. Here's a video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q0XcZAuTZNM
(Lord of the Rings movie spoilers)

It's even got that two guitar tremolo picking harmony thing in it like I did in this remix. It doesn't have any harmonized solos in it though. Another one you can check out is Valhall Awaits Me.

One thing I KINDA care about with your original drum sounds Sixto, is that I kinda miss the "having 6 crash cymbals" thing.

Legion, I like what I hear in your version of simple changes so far. I don't know what you did besides add reverb to the vocals, but it sounds nice. Thank you. ^_^

[Tensei]

Hahaha! I don't know if the strings look is exactly what I'm going for, although they do add an interesting change in atmosphere.



Aww, C'mon man, the strings are f*cking awesome, you don't need to have it sound like a carbon copy of Amon Amarth. If it works you should keep it in IMO =P

[Fray]

Fray. I dig the flange. I think maybe you might of used it too much. You applied it to the entire track right? I think it sounds pretty good on the low death voices but not so much the higher ones. I think it sounds PERFECT on the spoken word sections, though!

Both of you. Heavier bass drum.

100% agreed on both items. I did apply the flange to the whole track, and it sounds great on the Cookie Monster parts but not so much on the dying screams and demon snarls. I wanted to hear your comments -- see if I was going in the right direction and all :)

[Legion303]

Oh, Amon Amarth. Why didn't you say so? :P

I made a bunch of small changes and compressed the kick, bass and vox, panned the guitars (rhythm hard left and right, and leads about 35% each side of center for that Iron Maiden-like "duelling guitars" sound near the end. Cleaned up some of the noises between notes. EQ. I plan to work on the vox more, but I'm trying to learn how to apply effects to just part of a wav in CuBase. It's easy in Audition, but I got tired of Audition's bugs and lack of support for half my effects, so I kicked it to the curb.

Could you possibly separate the drums and bass into two separate midis? I want to import the drums directly into FLS so I can swap the sounds with BFD, and I only need the bass to get note data so I can play it live. Thanks.

-steve

[suzumebachi]

can i get the midi plz?

[Legion303]

I'm trying to learn how to apply effects to just part of a wav in CuBase. It's easy in Audition, but I got tired of Audition's bugs and lack of support for half my effects, so I kicked it to the curb.

It turns out it's even easier in CuBase. Yeah, blow me, Audition. Get the hell off my hard drive.

-steve

[CHIPP Damage]

Don't have time to do a serious post right now, so I'll just say,

"Suzumebachi, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you."

^________________________^

[CHIPP Damage]

OK. Now for a real reply.

Suzumebachi, please PM me your email address for the midi.

Legion, if you ask for it, then you shall receive, but can't your sequencer be used to manipulate two midi tracks separately? You know, I would just have to cut the bass out of the mix and paste it into a new project and then save them both as midis. Are you not able to do that? I'll go ahead and send them to you, anyway cause I like you. ^_^ Hahaha.

Tensei, it's not that I feel like I have to have the perfect master copy of Amon Amarth, but I don't feel like this song needs string parts in it. The guitars are harmonizing like ALL the time in this song. I don't want to take any attention away from those guitars. And besides, I know that Sixto was just experimenting to see how stuff sounded because he's cool and stuff, but if I WERE gonna put string parts in it, I'd definitely want them to be something more complicated than sustained chords.

[HoboKa]

Oh yeah Oh yeah??? You guys ain't got shit!! Check this "masterpiece" out :D
http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/dfmq/best-rock-song-evar

[Legion303]

Legion, if you ask for it, then you shall receive, but can't your sequencer be used to manipulate two midi tracks separately? You know, I would just have to cut the bass out of the mix and paste it into a new project and then save them both as midis. Are you not able to do that? I'll go ahead and send them to you, anyway cause I like you. ^_^ Hahaha.

I don't know if my sequencer can do that...this will be the first time I've ever imported a MIDI file. :/

But I have an updated edit here. Mostly further EQ refinements, but I also added some harmonization to the lead guitar parts near the end. I also gave the kick a boost.

http://neutronstar.org/music/chipp_valkyrie-v0.02.mp3

-steve

[anosou]

This thread is interesting! *lurks*



I should have told you all from the beginning the band that I'm sort of trying to emulate. That band is Amon Amarth. The song God's of War Arise is a perfect example of the sound that I like. Here's a video.


Amon Amarth? That's my classmate's cousin ;) So she has like all their CD's signed and some unreleased demos and whatnot. Didn't know they were big outside of Sweden? Hell, I didn't know they were big in Sweden XD

[Fray]

New version up:

http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v5.mp3

- I incorporated all the production requests from the OP -- Chipp, lemme know if I got these right.
- Added some volume automation on the guitars so they could really sing out during the solo parts but not crowd or get old otherwise.
- Did a bunch of processing on the vocals


Problems:
- There's something really ear-fatiguing about my mix that I can't seem to get rid of. I'd love suggestions if anyone has them, it's driving me nuts.
- The bass is too boomy at times.
- Probably need to revisit the guitar automation, I think it pops out too much sometimes.

[CHIPP Damage]

Amon Amarth? That's my classmate's cousin ;) So she has like all their CD's signed and some unreleased demos and whatnot. Didn't know they were big outside of Sweden? Hell, I didn't know they were big in Sweden XD

WHAT?! NO WAY! ARE YOU JUST JOKING?! I'D LOVE TO GET AMON AMARTH'S SIGNATURE! they're style, while kind of overly simplistic (and definitely repetitive), is just so interesting to me, and they've become one of my all-time favorite bands. I REALLY want them to play out here sometime. They're song about Ragnarok, called Burning Creation, was a BIG influence in the arrangement of these Valkyrie Profile tunes. That song has a ton of vocal parts with no chorus all one after the other for like two minutes, and then there's this really nice slow solo and then there's one more verse at the end where the vocalist says that Surtur burned entire world and then there's this slow dramatic solo that fades out. I recommend it. ^_^

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AJ70ouO5uj4

It's the ultimate viking death metal song in my opinion.

Now to check out Fray's update. Can't wait for this.

[CHIPP Damage]

New version up:

http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v5.mp3

- I incorporated all the production requests from the OP -- Chipp, lemme know if I got these right.
- Added some volume automation on the guitars so they could really sing out during the solo parts but not crowd or get old otherwise.
- Did a bunch of processing on the vocals


Problems:
- There's something really ear-fatiguing about my mix that I can't seem to get rid of. I'd love suggestions if anyone has them, it's driving me nuts.
- The bass is too boomy at times.
- Probably need to revisit the guitar automation, I think it pops out too much sometimes.

This is freaking sweet. The only thing that stands out to me as something I don't think I'd want is the amount of reverb that's on the vocals. Definitely want it to be that much is a few key places, but the entire thing being echoy seems kinda strange to me. If I remember correctly, I think Sixto put about that much reverb on the vocals in his last version too. Does metal usually have that much on it?

As for the ear fatigue, I TOTALLY know what you mean, and I think it all started over here from my side. I think it might be the kind of distortion I used. I'm not entirely sure, but my ears feel like they're lacking mid when listening to this. So I guess you could try giving the guitars more mid. I too would REALLY love to get rid of that ear fatigue. I'm sure that would be a pretty big deal to the judges too. The guys that did Cursed Bloodline had a sound that pretty heavy and your ears never got tired. I wonder how they did it.

[Fray]

This is freaking sweet. The only thing that stands out to me as something I don't think I'd want is the amount of reverb that's on the vocals. Definitely want it to be that much is a few key places, but the entire thing being echoy seems kinda strange to me. If I remember correctly, I think Sixto put about that much reverb on the vocals in his last version too. Does metal usually have that much on it?

As for the ear fatigue, I TOTALLY know what you mean, and I think it all started over here from my side. I think it might be the kind of distortion I used. I'm not entirely sure, but my ears feel like they're lacking mid when listening to this. So I guess you could try giving the guitars more mid. I too would REALLY love to get rid of that ear fatigue. I'm sure that would be a pretty big deal to the judges too. The guys that did Cursed Bloodline had a sound that pretty heavy and your ears never got tired. I wonder how they did it.

Hey thanks for checking the mix out so quickly.

I definitely made the reverb very "audible" on a lot of the vocals, like the battle commands "bring the armor", etc.. If that's not something you like artistically I'll scale it back in the next version, that's cool. The death grunts really don't have much reverb on them -- one of the differences between headphones and speakers is that reverb levels seem higher on phones. I've been mixing on speakers, so I'll check it on phones and make sure it doesn't sound too excessive. I don't think it's something you typically do in metal.

I'll give cursed bloodline a listen and see if I can match its tone color a bit better. I will try boosting the mids, but I think that can actually make it worse too. Maybe I need to bump down the highs on the guitars, I haven't really tried that yet.

[CHIPP Damage]

I leave it in your capable hands. I'm thinking it's all my distortion's fault. I hope not though.

Yeah, even aside from the echo aspect of the reverb, I think the vocals sound a bit distant, even on my speakers. Thanks.

[Tensei]

Fray, I think I might have found what's causing the ear-tiring. The bass-drum sounds kind of overcompressed and overcompression tends to be one of the causes of ear-tiring. It's amplified by the fact that the bass-drums fills the lower end almost constantly because of the fast rolls. Usually this is solved by the bass-drum having a really punchy attack and a soft decay so there's not so much strain on the ears because of the dynamic difference.

For the rest, I gotta say I love your version, I've been following the development of this song for quite some time, and I have to say you did an awesome job on bringing the best of the vocals out, it sounds very dramatic and really vikingish now. =P

[CHIPP Damage]

you did an awesome job on bringing the best of the vocals out, it sounds very dramatic and really vikingish now. =P

And that's EXACTLY what I'm going for. Vikingish. The song is about Ragnarok coming and it's sung partly from the point of view of a viking who was there and that what I want it to reflect. ^_^

[Fray]

Fray, I think I might have found what's causing the ear-tiring. The bass-drum sounds kind of overcompressed and overcompression tends to be one of the causes of ear-tiring. It's amplified by the fact that the bass-drums fills the lower end almost constantly because of the fast rolls. Usually this is solved by the bass-drum having a really punchy attack and a soft decay so there's not so much strain on the ears because of the dynamic difference.

For the rest, I gotta say I love your version, I've been following the development of this song for quite some time, and I have to say you did an awesome job on bringing the best of the vocals out, it sounds very dramatic and really vikingish now. =P

Thanks for the advice and compliment :) I will try that out -- so what you're getting at is to try to shorten the decay of the kick drum? I guess backing off the compression would effectively do that.

Edit: I think you nailed it, sir. I was blaming the guitars and didn't think to check the kick drum. Muting it reduced the ear fatigue right away, so that's a good sign it's to blame. I actually wasn't compressing it in the conventional sense (although the tape sim does kinda put some compression in there), so I'm fiddling around with an expander w/really short attack and release times, plus just turning the track down. Seems to work well.

Edit 2: I had even more success just using a shelving equalizer to lower the high frequencies of the kick. I also took a little big of the top end out of the guitars (allowing me to restore some of the mids I'd unnecessarily removed).

[CHIPP Damage]

OH! Since I think I did some compression before-hand on those drums, you might need to make a new one from the drum MIDI, if it doesn't go as well as you planned.

[Fray]

OH! Since I think I did some compression before-hand on those drums, you might need to make a new one from the drum MIDI, if it doesn't go as well as you planned.

Ok I might try that out. Seems like I'm having to chop out too much of the top end to get rid of the effect (i.e. the kick sounds like a dull "whup", no snap at all).

I also had some success with the long 16th note runs on the kick (those are the biggest problem I think) with automation -- I let them go at full force for a measure or so and then gradually pull the volume back. At that point your ear already knows the kick is there and what it's doing, so it doesn't need to be reminded at full force to hear what's going on. That's the idea at least :P

[CHIPP Damage]

. . . ? Sounds dramatic. Hahaha.

[CHIPP Damage]

I just wanted to remind all you great remixers, Legion, Fray, Sixto, and Suzumebachi (Fishy said he was "up for some metal" so perhaps he's making something too) that the original deadline we decided on (well, I decided on) of November 18th will be here in about 10 days. If you'd like and extension, then I need to hear it directly from your lips/keyboard. If everybody's just fine, then I'll be looking forward to hearing your final versions on November 18th. Thanks a lot guys. ^_^

[Fishy]

Oh shit, totally forgot abomut this :D. I'm still in.

[CHIPP Damage]

Oh sweet. Thanks, Fishy! I look forward to hearing what you do with it. If you want feedback on what I like and stuff, you can post it here and I'll tell you anything you want to know.

^______________________________________^

[Fray]

Chipp, did you deliberately pan the vocals around? I noticed the death grunts in particular seem to move to the right quite a bit during certain parts. I'm gonna center them unless it's something you were going for intentionally.

Edit: on second thought I think it's something I goofed up. Nevermind :P

[CHIPP Damage]

Chipp, did you deliberately pan the vocals around? I noticed the death grunts in particular seem to move to the right quite a bit during certain parts. I'm gonna center them unless it's something you were going for intentionally.

Edit: on second thought I think it's something I goofed up. Nevermind :P

Yeah, I don't remember doing that. Hahaha. You can pan them to your liking. . . Except 100% left. ^_^

[Fray]

Got a new version for you to check out. I think I'm pretty much closing in on the final release here. For one thing I'd like to know if you're satisfied with the overall loudness of the mix -- I've tried to keep a good bit of dynamic range in it for now... From here I can compress, etc., to get the volume up, but the more of that I do the more the dynamics suffer. It's metal though, so I can understand if you want it louder!

http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v10.mp3

Edit: I'm still going to make it louder than this no matter what, I'm just trying to get an idea of how much louder you need.

[CHIPP Damage]

Got a new version for you to check out. I think I'm pretty much closing in on the final release here. For one thing I'd like to know if you're satisfied with the overall loudness of the mix -- I've tried to keep a good bit of dynamic range in it for now... From here I can compress, etc., to get the volume up, but the more of that I do the more the dynamics suffer. It's metal though, so I can understand if you want it louder!

This is really interesting. I was wondering what you were talking about when you mentioned dynamics since I didn't change my guitar sound anywhere during recording, but now I see what's up. I think the way the volume suddenly changes when when entering the part that occurs right after "raining down from Heaven" is too dramatic. It gets noticeably quiet all of a sudden. and then about ten seconds later the guitars start "growing." Hahaha! Also the vocals are pretty small compared to the drums in the final verse at the end of the song. The drum explosions got way bigger, I see. Hahaha. Other than that, my only main concern is that the sound of the overall thing, or perhaps just the guitars, became WAY lighter. Did you remove a bunch of bass or something? That, and the new bass drum has got to be way fatter too. I think the ear fatigue that you were able to eliminate came from me drastically compressing the bass drum so that I could make it a whole lot louder. I definitely don't want the ear-fatigue, but if it's possible to "flesh out" that bass drum (I can't beLIEVE I just said that!) in some way, I'd be oh-so delighted.

On the good side, your choice of sound on the lead guitars is freaking BEAUTIFUL to me. The vocals also sound freaking bad ass. I'm sure you've made a lot of other changes to the sound that I can't distinguish very well because I'm a production n00b, but to be annoyingly honest, I liked version 5 better. But I think that if the volume thing, bass drum thing, and overall heaviness thing were all cleared up, I'd say otherwise.

What do you think about all that stuff, man?

[Fray]

This is really interesting. I was wondering what you were talking about when you mentioned dynamics since I didn't change my guitar sound anywhere during recording, but now I see what's up. I think the way the volume suddenly changes when when entering the part that occurs right after "raining down from Heaven" is too dramatic. It gets noticeably quiet all of a sudden. and then about ten seconds later the guitars start "growing." Hahaha! Also the vocals are pretty small compared to the drums in the final verse at the end of the song. The drum explosions got way bigger, I see. Hahaha. Other than that, my only main concern is that the sound of the overall thing, or perhaps just the guitars, became WAY lighter. Did you remove a bunch of bass or something? That, and the new bass drum has got to be way fatter too. I think the ear fatigue that you were able to eliminate came from me drastically compressing the bass drum so that I could make it a whole lot louder. I definitely don't want the ear-fatigue, but if it's possible to "flesh out" that bass drum (I can't beLIEVE I just said that!) in some way, I'd be oh-so delighted.

On the good side, your choice of sound on the lead guitars is freaking BEAUTIFUL to me. The vocals also sound freaking bad ass. I'm sure you've made a lot of other changes to the sound that I can't distinguish very well because I'm a production n00b, but to be annoyingly honest, I liked version 5 better. But I think that if the volume thing, bass drum thing, and overall heaviness thing were all cleared up, I'd say otherwise.

What do you think about all that stuff, man?

I'm still using the same kick drum actually, just EQ'd very differently and turned down. Hopefully I can switch a new one in that I can turn up more with less ear fatigue -- unfortunately I can't do that until Sonar 7 shows up in the mail :P I forgot to set the tempo before I started chopping up the tracks (vocals especially) so I could process different parts of them. 7 has a feature that lets you change the tempo without screwing all that up, and I should get it this week. Anyway I'll try to get more whump out of it once I have MIDI powers again!

Yeah I did a lot of automation on the guitars, and for the most part you're not supposed to notice it -- I'll make the dip after "raining down from heaven" more subtle. Main reason for this was to combat ear fatigue and to give the climactic parts more energy. Another source of fatigue btw was the highs (7+ kHz) in the guitars, so I automated a treble cut and took those down when I could get away with it (hopefully you couldn't tell except for the fact that you didn't go as deaf listening to it).

I might replace the bass guitar too. IMO the sample sounds kinda cheesy and really ruins the authentic death metal setting offered by the real guitars, live vocals, and (relatively) convincing drums. So I've been trying to hide it, and that may have caused of some of the lack of heaviness like you said.

So! The next version will have a more powerful kick, better and louder bass, and an overall heavier sound :) I can see what you mean that it's gotten a bit wimpy.

Glad you like the vocals and lead guitars.

[CHIPP Damage]

All I can say is, Wow. Thanks man. I don't see why you can't use the drums from the original midi to make a new bass drum. The tempos and all that should match up right?

I hope all the other guys are doing ok. I can't wait to hear what you've all got. I haven't heard anything for a while, but if you need an extension, please tell me.

[Fray]

All I can say is, Wow. Thanks man. I don't see why you can't use the drums from the original midi to make a new bass drum. The tempos and all that should match up right?

Hehe, I didn't get Sonar 7 for that purpose alone, I was getting it one way or another :P You know I might be able to use the MIDI as is if I had it scale the tempo or something somehow. I'd give it a shot but sonar 7 came in the mail today ^.^

[Legion303]

I haven't heard anything for a while, but if you need an extension, please tell me.

I posted v0.2 but didn't get feedback. :P

I haven't worked on it much since then. I don't think I need an extension yet. Due to the loud environment control system at work I can't do much with it there, even with headphones. So the earliest I'll be able to do anything other than tonight would be Monday...

-steve

[CHIPP Damage]

Oh, Legion, did I miss one?! I'm sorry. Let me go check it out!

[CHIPP Damage]

Oh yeah, I remember this. I remember not saying anything, because I didn't think there was anything wrong with it at all. In fact, it still sounds kinda like my original in my opinion, which is cool. ^_^ So I definitely should have said that this is cool, so that you'd know. Sorry about that. The only thing that I think is not for me (which everybody seems to want to do) is the amount of reverb on the vocals. I think it could be like half of what it is. Fray and Sixto's versions had the same thing. I wonder if that's the standard for vocals or something. Anyway, I feel like there's something missing, and I wonder if it might be bass in the overall mix. I'm not sure to be honest, but I'm listening to it and sort of wishing it was a bit heavier. I also think the changes in the volumes on the main lead section in the middle that Fray did were a good idea and would recommend that for all of the remixers now. If I had to pick two things that kick ass about your remix, I'd say it's your sweet harmony notes that you added on that solo at 3:43 and the bass drum sound. Those harmony notes sound really freaking nice right there, perhaps much better than simply adding chorus like I requested. And your bass drum sings to me man. I don't get much ear-fatigue like Fray was having some troubles with and it's freaking heavy and I can totally hear it at every moment of the song. The snare is kind of "non-intrusive" which is good, too.

I'm freaking sorry I didn't reply to you. I wish you would have said something earlier. If you want more time, of course it's granted.

[Fray]

Okay, new version up. New bass and kick. Much, much heavier this time, and louder (I went ahead and did a little bit of peak limiting, more than I really like actually :P). Is there still too much reverb on the vocals? Is the volume automation ever distracting? Anything else?

http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v12.mp3

[Fishy]

I just wanted to remind all you great remixers, Legion, Fray, Sixto, and Suzumebachi (Fishy said he was "up for some metal" so perhaps he's making something too) that the original deadline we decided on (well, I decided on) of November 18th will be here in about 10 days. If you'd like and extension, then I need to hear it directly from your lips/keyboard. If everybody's just fine, then I'll be looking forward to hearing your final versions on November 18th. Thanks a lot guys. ^_^

I've actually just bought Logic Studio, but I'm still waiting on my Macbook Pro to arrive, and the thought of mastering this many wavs in FL is not a happy one on my current PC. I'll try and get it there as soon as I can, but if you already have something awesome (as I'm sure you will) then thats cool.

[CHIPP Damage]

I've actually just bought Logic Studio, but I'm still waiting on my Macbook Pro to arrive, and the thought of mastering this many wavs in FL is not a happy one on my current PC. I'll try and get it there as soon as I can, but if you already have something awesome (as I'm sure you will) then thats cool.

No that's fine, man. Legion caught a vicious head cold and can't listen to anything bassy right now so he asked for another week which I granted. So go ahead and try what you want to try man.

[CHIPP Damage]

Okay, new version up. New bass and kick. Much, much heavier this time, and louder (I went ahead and did a little bit of peak limiting, more than I really like actually :P). Is there still too much reverb on the vocals? Is the volume automation ever distracting? Anything else?

http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v12.mp3

Your mix is really sweet man. It's interesting to me how the snare drum sounds cool in the entire mix, but just those 1st beats sound all echoy and funny to me. Other than that, I liked the sound you had for the solo at 3:07 on your previous version better. It sounded less "muffled" if you will. Also, from 3:30 you can turn up the rhythm guitar a little bit more. I'd like to hear it blend with the lead a bit. Did you add a phase shifting effect at 4:33? I like it. I'd like it to be even more audible actually. Vocals might be a bit too quiet on the final verse and on the part starting at 1:00. The only other thing I'd like is some more chorus (or whatever effect it would take to make it sound like 3 or more people singing) on the words, Ragnarok at 2:18 and Einherjar at 2:24 and maybe not chorus, but just bassier EQ or something on "You have been chosen by Odin." The chorus doesn't seem to be working for me. Sorry I'm so damn picky. Legion requested another week so it's granted for everyone now.

[Fray]

Your mix is really sweet man. It's interesting to me how the snare drum sounds cool in the entire mix, but just those 1st beats sound all echoy and funny to me. Other than that, I liked the sound you had for the solo at 3:07 on your previous version better. It sounded less "muffled" if you will. Also, from 3:30 you can turn up the rhythm guitar a little bit more. I'd like to hear it blend with the lead a bit. Did you add a phase shifting effect at 4:33? I like it. I'd like it to be even more audible actually. Vocals might be a bit too quiet on the final verse and on the part starting at 1:00. The only other thing I'd like is some more chorus (or whatever effect it would take to make it sound like 3 or more people singing) on the words, Ragnarok at 2:18 and Einherjar at 2:24 and maybe not chorus, but just bassier EQ or something on "You have been chosen by Odin." The chorus doesn't seem to be working for me. Sorry I'm so damn picky. Legion requested another week so it's granted for everyone now.

Heh, all I did was turn the snare drum up for the first four hits. Maybe it sounds weird because I turned the reverb up along with the snare itself.

For the solo sound at 3:07 do you mean v5 or v10 was better? I can't tell any difference between the tone in v10 and v12 :P But yeah v5 does have a lot more air to it.

I'll turn up the rhythm guitar at 3:30, no prob.

Yeah I did put in a flanger at 4:33 -- you mentioned you were trying to get an effect by turning the guitar down there, so I experimented with some stuff. I'll make it a little more obvious.

I agree about the vocals being way too quiet in the final verse, I already fixed that :) I'll turn it up at 1:00 too.

Will do more chorus on Ragnarok and Einherjar. I'll see what I can do about Chosen by Odin :P

[CHIPP Damage]

The solo at 3:07 sounded better in version 5 I think. Yeah, sorry. Not the last version. Version 5. Kicked my ass at 3:07.

[Fray]

Probably the final version from me, save for fixing any last minute items that are still bugging you:

http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v16.mp3

- Did my best to restore the guitar tone at 3:07 to what it was in v5. I actually "un-tweaked" the guitar tone in a few other places because I thought maybe I'd changed it a bit too much from your original idea, which is not something I ever meant to do.
- Louder guitar at 3:30, vocals at 1:00 and vocals at end
- Made "You have been chosen by Odin" really big and loud :P Boosted the guitar phrase just beforehand too so it would fit in a little better.
- More obvious chorus on Ragnarok and Einherjar
- More flanger at 4:33
- Teensy bit of M-S compression on the master using Vintage Channel to spread the stereo image out a little (I kept it subtle because I'm really new at using that effect).
- Turned down the reverb on the snare intro
- Used that new boost11 peak limiter to raise the volume a bit... no real squashing except at the very loudest parts of the mix, and I think it adds a pleasing amount of grit to those segments.

[CHIPP Damage]

Link doesn't work. You're FIRED! Hahaha. Just kidding.

[Fray]

At this rate I'm never going to make it into the Einherjar...

Link fixed :)

On second thought, use this one, I think I managed to clean up a little more ear fatigue w/o obviously changing the sound.


Edit 2: Crap, now the lead guitars are a little too quiet in the last two versions :( I'll fix that tonight...

Edit 3: Ok I fixed the guitars to be a little louder, they fit better now:
http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v18.mp3

[CHIPP Damage]

Thanks for the new version Fray. I like it a lot.

Well, I got Saturday morning over here. I'm hoping to hear something from the other remixers by the end of YOUR weekend. ^_^

Everybody OK?

[CHIPP Damage]

Well, I've got Monday evening over here. What's the situation, guys?

[Legion303]

I still have a cold. I think this round is going to Fray, who put a shitload of work in. :)

I don't need credit for it, but if Fray wants to use my 4 seconds of guitar lead harmony I'll export it.

-steve

[CHIPP Damage]

I still have a cold. I think this round is going to Fray, who put a shitload of work in. :)

I don't need credit for it, but if Fray wants to use my 4 seconds of guitar lead harmony I'll export it.

-steve

You may be right. I wonder what happened to Sixto. I was really curious to hear one with his original drum sounds.

If Fray agrees, I'd TOTALLY love that guitar harmony yo. How do you rule so god damn much, legion? I'll give it another night or two and if I don't hear anything, then Fray is the winner.

[Fray]

I don't need credit for it, but if Fray wants to use my 4 seconds of guitar lead harmony I'll export it.

-steve

Shit yes, I do. I had half a mind to ask you for it, but I didn't know if you were going to come up with a mix to blow mine away, in which case it would have been moot :)

[CHIPP Damage]

That's the consensus, Legion. We'd love to have that harmony. But you ARE getting credit for it. It'll be in the write-up if we manage to get this passed.

[Legion303]

Seriously, this consisted of me slapping Amplitube on the track and auto-harmonizing it. I don't want credit since I didn't do any work. Here it is: http://neutronstar.org/tmp/harmony.rar

-steve

[CHIPP Damage]

OK, but even if it wasn't hard at all, it was still a good idea that you thought of before anyone else did.

[CHIPP Damage]

I guess it's time to announce the official winner.

By default: Fray!

Congratulations, Fray. You now have the honor of being rejected with me. ^_^

Thank you, everyone who participated. I hope you had fun, at least in the beginning. And I hope you didn't run away because of. . . because of something really bad. I don't know what I wanted to say there. A big fat thanks to Legion for hosting the files for everyone to use!

Well, Fray, when you say it's ready for submission, I'll believe you. Just one thing though. Can you pan the two harmonizing guitar solos to the left and right instead of both on one side, and the final solo to the center, please? ^_^

[Fray]

I guess it's time to announce the official winner.

By default: Fray!

Congratulations, Fray. You now have the honor of being rejected with me. ^_^

Thank you, everyone who participated. I hope you had fun, at least in the beginning. And I hope you didn't run away because of. . . because of something really bad. I don't know what I wanted to say there. A big fat thanks to Legion for hosting the files for everyone to use!

Well, Fray, when you say it's ready for submission, I'll believe you. Just one thing though. Can you pan the two harmonizing guitar solos to the left and right instead of both on one side, and the final solo to the center, please? ^_^

Default... the two most beautiful words in the english language :)

When you talk about the panning of the harmonizing guitar parts, do you mean the new thing from Legion? Also, isn't the final solo already centered? I'll check on it tonight.

Besides that I might try to make the kick drum a little more prominent -- I think it's gotten a little lost as I've filled out the other parts.

[Sixto]

Good luck!

[CHIPP Damage]

Thanks for everything Sixto. I really enjoyed your participation while it lasted. ^_^ And sorry that I rejected your keyboard.

[Fray]

Okay, here we go with probably the final version :)

- Fixed the panning on the harmonized guitar solos. I completely spazzed out and had both guitars 30% left when I meant to have one on the right. Sorry about that!
- Boosted the kick around 6kHz because otherwise I could barely hear it on headphones. Lemme know if it's too clicky for your taste -- I deliberately made it less so than the one on "Gods of War Arise".
- Added Legion's Guitar Harmony of Apocalyptic Doom (thanks Legion!). Panned it to the opposite side of the main melody, I think that's what was intended...

And for once I'm going to get the damn link right on the first try. Here goes:

http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v19.mp3

Oh btw, let me know if the encoding is ok. I used VBR, some people don't like it.

[Tensei]

Whoa, I think CHIPP will flip out when he hears this, because it's damn awesome. I'm impressed with the way you were able to salvage such a good tone from the lead guitars. I still get some ear-fatigue, but nowhere near as bad as in the earlier version, so that's alright. If it were up to me, I'd say you guys are ready to submit :)

[avaris]

Nice lovin the guitar at 1:43 and 3:23. IMO the lead guitar in some of solo sections could use a small boost in volume.

[Fray]

Whoa, I think CHIPP will flip out when he hears this, because it's damn awesome. I'm impressed with the way you were able to salvage such a good tone from the lead guitars. I still get some ear-fatigue, but nowhere near as bad as in the earlier version, so that's alright. If it were up to me, I'd say you guys are ready to submit :)

Heh, he's already heard about 50 versions of it from me, poor guy :P

Yeah I still feel the ear fatigue too. I think it's a combination of the blast beats, "crying" guitars, and my meager skills :P But at least it's less than before, like you said.

Nice lovin the guitar at 1:43 and 3:23. IMO the lead guitar in some of solo sections could use a small boost in volume.

Thanks for listening. What spots in particular?

[CHIPP Damage]

Upon hearing this, I've decided that Fray is a god amongst humans who is definitely going to be one of Odin's favorite Einherjar when he dies. Thanks for this SWEET ass mix man! Let's do it! I'll submit it this weekend. ^_^

[Fray]

Haha, thanks CHIPP :) It's been crazy fun working on this remix! While I'm proud of the work I did on it, it's just icing on a really good arrangement.

Btw, would you like a CD or something of the mix project? It's in Sonar 7 (I think you said you had 5, so you couldn't use it unless you upgraded). I don't think I used many external plugins, and the ones I did use were all free (Kjaerhus Flanger and Blockfish are the only ones that come to mind).

[HoboKa]

this totally blew my mind away Fray and CHIPP. IF OCR NO's this song, then some one's gonna have to post some more stuff on the judge hate thread >:P

Well...there's always some EQ issues to work out I suppose but still...this song puts a lot of famous Metal bands to shame. Rock on guys :D