Recommend Me Some Good Chord Progressions and Key Signature Chords

[TheSnowStorm]

Recently, I have started working on composing video game music so I can have a nice portfolio by the end of my Sophomore year in college (and just for fun as well). What type of chords progression and key signatures do you recommended for the following:

Scary (A fellow composer on an indie game development site told me the chord AEF is good, but what are some other chords to use and keys. I'm working on a soundtrack for a horror/survival game.)

R&B - I assume any chord within M7, m7, and m6, M6. Your typical jazz chords and seeing that R&B is one of the many children of jazz.

Battle - Such as minor, story-based, and boss battles. What chords would help me out to show listeners and players that they are in a battle. For a minor/sub-boss, what key and for a story-based boss, what keys would I need to know?

Town,Country-Side,Big City,Castle Town, etc. - I know for like a big modern day city, one cliche is like using a saxophone if the city takes place in a gritty, dark, grim area. But for like a RPG/adventure type of town or castle town, I don't know.

Sad,Depressing - I been told E Minor and A Minor from my composing friend. Also, "Cry in Sorrow" from Final Fantasy IV is in the key of D-Flat Major/B-Flat Minor but I wonder would D-Flat Major/B-Flat Minor would work.

World Map - This does depends on the story of the game and the characters. Because each video game's story (or lack of it) is very different, you would be force to compose the world map depending on the game's main story.

World Map (Adventure-Like Theme) Main Themes like the original FF1 and Legend of Zelda's MM's map theme. What keys and chord progressions are they usually in?

World Map (Sad Depressing) - I could take A and E Minor. Final Fantasy 2 had a very depressing world map theme because of the story.

World Map (Airship, Boats, Etc.) - ??? I have no idea to explain this.

[JH Sounds]

EDIT: Shit, the title of this topic. Can a mod replace the "O" with an "E" please?

You can actually do that yourself now. :wink:

[Fratto]

D minor is the saddest of all keys.

[Moseph]

Recently, I have started working on composing video game music so I can have a nice portfolio by the end of my Sophomore year in college (and just for fun as well). What type of chords progression and key signatures do you recommended for the following:

Scary (A fellow composer on an indie game development site told me the chord AEF is good, but what are some other chords to use and keys. I'm working on a soundtrack for a horror/survival game.)

For scary atmospheric music, at least, you can really just do whatever you like. Long dissonances = good. You may not even need to concern yourself with key. People all the time compose horror-film music that many people wouldn't like if it were concert music. A E F (notes in one chord, not a progression) is cool because it contains both an open fifth and a close dissonance -- it'd work really well for creepy atmosphere music. For another take on this, try A C E F G-sharp. A C C-sharp E (A chord with both the major and minor third in it) might also be useful.

As far as key is concerned, I'd say it doesn't really matter beyond the major/minor distinction. Now that we're on equal-temperament, A minor isn't much different from E minor unless it puts your instruments in a better range (or unless you have perfect pitch). (Or unless you associate sharps and flats with different musical purposes, but let's not get into that.) Okay, maybe it does make something of a difference, but it's going to be one of personal preference, so I wouldn't worry too much about specifically which key to use unless there's one you particularly like. Also consider modes (dorian, lydian, etc.), either as "keys" on their own or mixed in with your key to spice it up.

IMO, orchestration and melody/accompaniment-writing are generally more important to establishing the mood of a piece than chord progression, but that's not to say there aren't cool things to be done by starting with a chord progression. A jazz trick for developing chord progressions, for example, is to "ii-V" a chord -- to approach a chord by treating it as a temporary key-center.

For example, if you have a C F G C chord progression (I IV V I in C maj), you could expand it like:
C (Gmin C) F (Amin D) G C
I (ii/IV V/IV) IV (ii/V V/V) V I

Another fun thing to do is jump from a major chord to another major chord a major third below it (e.g. C to A-flat). It has a disorienting quality to it, so this might help you if you need mysterious music or something. You could maybe expand it into something like C A-flat D-flat-min F-sharp Bmin G C.

TL;DR version: GUYS, MUSIC IS FUN!!!

[TheSnowStorm]

D minor is the saddest of all keys.

Huh? D Minor isn't usually sad.

For scary atmospheric music, at least, you can really just do whatever you like. Long dissonances = good. You may not even need to concern yourself with key. People all the time compose horror-film music that many people wouldn't like if it were concert music. A E F (notes in one chord, not a progression) is cool because it contains both an open fifth and a close dissonance -- it'd work really well for creepy atmosphere music. For another take on this, try A C E F G-sharp. A C C-sharp E (A chord with both the major and minor third in it) might also be useful.

As far as key is concerned, I'd say it doesn't really matter beyond the major/minor distinction. Now that we're on equal-temperament, A minor isn't much different from E minor unless it puts your instruments in a better range (or unless you have perfect pitch). (Or unless you associate sharps and flats with different musical purposes, but let's not get into that.) Okay, maybe it does make something of a difference, but it's going to be one of personal preference, so I wouldn't worry too much about specifically which key to use unless there's one you particularly like. Also consider modes (dorian, lydian, etc.), either as "keys" on their own or mixed in with your key to spice it up.

IMO, orchestration and melody/accompaniment-writing are generally more important to establishing the mood of a piece than chord progression, but that's not to say there aren't cool things to be done by starting with a chord progression. A jazz trick for developing chord progressions, for example, is to "ii-V" a chord -- to approach a chord by treating it as a temporary key-center.

For example, if you have a C F G C chord progression (I IV V I in C maj), you could expand it like:
C (Gmin C) F (Amin D) G C
I (ii/IV V/IV) IV (ii/V V/V) V I

Another fun thing to do is jump from a major chord to another major chord a major third below it (e.g. C to A-flat). It has a disorienting quality to it, so this might help you if you need mysterious music or something. You could maybe expand it into something like C A-flat D-flat-min F-sharp Bmin G C.

TL;DR version: GUYS, MUSIC IS FUN!!!


Thanks! I read of all that!

[SLyGeN]

Huh? D Minor isn't usually sad.

Who the hell is your instructor?

You may be thinking of the Dorian mode, which is different from natural minor. You must understand that the musical mode is strictly based on the intervals between each note, not which note it starts on.

It would be good for you to just play around on the scales of each mode.


Before I took a music theory class, I knew I always loved that cliché egypt/middle-east music you have in video games. Then I saw harmonic minor and I shat bricks. Then I saw phrygian and shat more brix. Then I saw locrian and there were no more brix, so my colon fell out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzydUHifhco

Listen to Sprout Tower from Pokémon Crystal. It has kind of an uneasy feel, mixed with a little bit of eastern/exotic/mysterious/I can't explain it. That's Locrian for you- the mode that everybody hates. The whole game, especially Ecruteak, felt to me like I was in a totally foreign land because the two towers make heavy use of Phrygian. Then the Sprout Tower is in Locrian, which is just phrygian with a flatted five. The flatted five means not only is there no Perfect Fifth interval in the scale, that 5 becomes a diminished 5th and all of the Orthodox Christians will run to their holy water. On top of that, the 1 triad is diminished. So, when the music moves to the tonic, you still get very little closure. It's really the perfect mode to use for loops.

I think that was all totally irrelevant to your specified moods, but maybe someone can get something out of it.

edit: here's some irony. For a scary-sounding piece, consider having absolutely no functional harmony. Cauldron Keep for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rjtZEAOhl8

Diminished and augmented chords out the ass, although it does move on to a minor-sounding melody. I think what Grant does here is use real (as opposed to tonal) transpositions of some of those minor motives, and since he keeps going up and up, it gets more and more uneasy and tense. Go to the top of the tower as Kazooie and just glide around while listening to the music. Utterly epic. :nicework: Grant Kirkhope.

(that conjecture happened in about 5 minutes from simply listening to the song, with little study of the actual notes.. please do speak up if anyone feels otherwise.)


ANOTHER EDIT: play around with a whole-tone scale too. C to C(8va) and then back down, with whole-step intervals only. Try it.

[Zephyr]

Huh? D Minor isn't usually sad.

*Sigh*

Some people don't seem to realize that a specific key (ex: D minor) sounds EXACTLY the same as any other key of the respective type (ex: G minor) just that the notes are raised or lowered to the new pitch. Play a line in D- then play the exact same line in G-, it won't be any less sad/happy or any different at all except that the notes themselves are raised a P4 from the D- one. So what you're really saying is: "Huh? Natural minor keys don't usually sound sad" For this reason, when asking for "which specific chords (or progressions) sound good (ex: A to E to F) < this isn't really the best way to say it. A better way would be (1, P5, +6) because this can be used easily in any key. or if you prefer (1[minor triad] P5 [major triad] +6 [seventh chord]) or whatever the chords are.

[Xenon Odyssey]

look up SOUND COLOURS. Tee-hee (http://www.guitarweek.com/sound-colors/cycle.php)

[po!]

*Sigh*

Some people don't seem to realize that a specific key (ex: D minor) sounds EXACTLY the same as any other key of the respective type (ex: G minor) just that the notes are raised or lowered to the new pitch.

that's not true when talking about acoustic instruments. since they have set tunings, certain notes sound different than others, for example playing the one octave harmonic on the E string of a violin.. you wouldn't be able to get the same sound if it was Eb. piano strings aren't dampened once you go high enough (forgot which note it is), so it will sound different if you transpose stuff

etc, etc, etc...

[Yoozer]

Thanks! I read of all that!

Why'd you quote it then?

But for like a RPG/adventure type of town or castle town, I don't know.

That's why studying genres works, too. For medieval towns there's a cliche of a strummed acoustic guitar and a recorder / flute.

As for sad chords - so much more depends on tempo and instruments.

[prophetik]

Some people don't seem to realize that a specific key (ex: D minor) sounds EXACTLY the same as any other key of the respective type

http://www.library.yale.edu/~mkoth/keychar.htm

some people don't listen to classical music, either. orchestras in d minor create possibly the most heart-wrenching sounds in music.

which is where that original statement, d minor is the saddest key (spinal tap!) came from.

[TheSnowStorm]

Who the hell is your instructor?

You may be thinking of the Dorian mode, which is different from natural minor. You must understand that the musical mode is strictly based on the intervals between each note, not which note it starts on.

It would be good for you to just play around on the scales of each mode.


Before I took a music theory class, I knew I always loved that cliché egypt/middle-east music you have in video games. Then I saw harmonic minor and I shat bricks. Then I saw phrygian and shat more brix. Then I saw locrian and there were no more brix, so my colon fell out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzydUHifhco

Listen to Sprout Tower from Pokémon Crystal. It has kind of an uneasy feel, mixed with a little bit of eastern/exotic/mysterious/I can't explain it. That's Locrian for you- the mode that everybody hates. The whole game, especially Ecruteak, felt to me like I was in a totally foreign land because the two towers make heavy use of Phrygian. Then the Sprout Tower is in Locrian, which is just phrygian with a flatted five. The flatted five means not only is there no Perfect Fifth interval in the scale, that 5 becomes a diminished 5th and all of the Orthodox Christians will run to their holy water. On top of that, the 1 triad is diminished. So, when the music moves to the tonic, you still get very little closure. It's really the perfect mode to use for loops.

I think that was all totally irrelevant to your specified moods, but maybe someone can get something out of it.

edit: here's some irony. For a scary-sounding piece, consider having absolutely no functional harmony. Cauldron Keep for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rjtZEAOhl8

Diminished and augmented chords out the ass, although it does move on to a minor-sounding melody. I think what Grant does here is use real (as opposed to tonal) transpositions of some of those minor motives, and since he keeps going up and up, it gets more and more uneasy and tense. Go to the top of the tower as Kazooie and just glide around while listening to the music. Utterly epic. :nicework: Grant Kirkhope.

(that conjecture happened in about 5 minutes from simply listening to the song, with little study of the actual notes.. please do speak up if anyone feels otherwise.)


ANOTHER EDIT: play around with a whole-tone scale too. C to C(8va) and then back down, with whole-step intervals only. Try it.

My bad, I was thinking of the Dorian Mode. My old teacher would fuckin' kill me for that mistake (plus the fact I didn't pay attention when he was teaching us this.)

The Tower from Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal where the monks praise that BellSprout god(?) does have the Eastern feel to it. Makes me want to do an Eastern-type song.

Harmonic minor is great for Arab-like music thanks due to that G#. I was wondering what was the name of that scale.


Once again, thanks to everyone who gave some advice. It's some good advice!

[zircon]

http://www.library.yale.edu/~mkoth/keychar.htm

some people don't listen to classical music, either. orchestras in d minor create possibly the most heart-wrenching sounds in music.

which is where that original statement, d minor is the saddest key (spinal tap!) came from.

I don't really buy the "key = emotion" connection in terms of pure music. I never care or pay attention to what key I write in and I don't think my music ever suffers for it. I really like writing funky, smooth stuff in F# minor for example which doesn't make any sense given those descriptions. The only time I really pay attention to key is if I'm writing for live players or if I'm trying to ensure the low notes of a bass part don't go below, say, C. Scales and chords are more important IMO but I don't really even think about scales much either, compared to chords, which are definitely key to my works.

Where I think key plays more of a role is when being in one key really elicits a different tone than another key from particular live instruments... eg. a French horn that has to play in a higher range than they normally would.

[Moseph]

The emotional implications of the keys in the eighteenth century have been reduced by the fact everyone now tunes in equal temperament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament). Any given semitone for us covers exactly the same distance, whereas this was not true in older tuning systems. In the eigthteen century, C major and E-flat major sounded different not only because they were in different ranges but because the intervals used to construct them were slightly different due to the tuning systems that were used.

To quote the Wikigods --
J. S. Bach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._S._Bach) wrote The Well-Tempered Clavier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well-Tempered_Clavier) to demonstrate the musical possibilities of well temperament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament), where in some keys the consonances are even more degraded than in equal temperament. It is reasonable to believe that when composers and theoreticians of earlier times wrote of the moods and "colors" of the keys, they each described the subtly different dissonances made available within a particular tuning method. However, it is difficult to determine with any exactness the actual tunings used in different places at different times by any composer. (Correspondingly, there is a great deal of variety in the particular opinions of composers about the moods and colors of particular keys.)

[Cyril the Wolf]

IV - V - iv = epicness.

No lie, use it for a boss battle, high tempo. Accentuate the thirds or not.

You could even go crazy and go IV - V - IV, but that'd work out too happy. :D

All examples are in major key.

[prophetik]

I don't really buy the "key = emotion" connection in terms of pure music. I never care or pay attention to what key I write in and I don't think my music ever suffers for it. I really like writing funky, smooth stuff in F# minor for example which doesn't make any sense given those descriptions. The only time I really pay attention to key is if I'm writing for live players or if I'm trying to ensure the low notes of a bass part don't go below, say, C. Scales and chords are more important IMO but I don't really even think about scales much either, compared to chords, which are definitely key to my works.

Where I think key plays more of a role is when being in one key really elicits a different tone than another key from particular live instruments... eg. a French horn that has to play in a higher range than they normally would.

you're missing what i was talking about. with electronic stuff like that, it's not a big deal, but with live music, things are different. d minor is an awesome range for everything in the orchestra because of where each note sits on the instruments. for example, in d minor, f is the third (lowered from f# for the major). that's low 1 on the e string of the violin (a really dark sounding note compared to the rest of the e string), and the d and a sit in low positions as well. d minor for horns is a minor, which means that they can yell the root on a high a, about the limit for most non-professional horn players (and soundfonts). it gives you a solid basis for drop-d in rock music, and since the low d on a bass's 5th string is about as low as most cheap headphones, car speakers, and normal speakers will go with power, it sounds the best on most radios. for trumpets and clarinets, d minor is actually e minor, giving you a solid high b and maybe even an e on the trumpet (which a good player can reach without screeching) and good range down into the chalumeaux ending on a low e. same with bass clarinet. bones and tuba have good range in both directions on d minor. it's a good range for double reeds too - relatively easy to play compared to some of the other minors.

do you see what i mean? a key 'sounding' better on instruments or vocals is relative to what tones they produce the most naturally. d minor 'fits' the most instruments the best, similar to how bb major is a good fit for most bands.

another good example is the choir i used to sing with. if we had problems dropping the pitch every time we sang a song between the beginning and the end, we'd go a half step in either direction and start it there instead (we did mostly unaccompanied music). we'd stick the pitch like we never had an issue then. certain keys just sit better.

[dannthr]

Unless your listener is a tonal synesthetic a specific key is not going to evoke more or less emotion than another.

However, the 'This is Spinal Tap' reference not being acknowledged by qutie a few musicians is a freaking tragedy. Watch that movie if you have not already and if you have but you've forgotten it, watch it until it is seared across the folds of your brain.

Additionally, 'This is Spinal Tap' being taken seriously is compounding the tragedy. That moment, among many moments, from the film was specifically making fun of those people who take that key crap seriously.


Let's talk for a moment about keys and more specifically, keys and registers.

One of the most important factors in selecting a key for the modern composer is one largely having to do with instrumentation. Each instrument in the orchestra has varying timbral qualities across their useable registers. Understanding this is at the heart of orchestration and it is why most modern composers select one key over the next.

For example, a cello group. First of all there are the instrumental limitations. Celli are generally not tuned below a C, so whatever music you have in mind for them is going to have to NOT go below their lowest note. The cello has several timbral variations from one octave or so to the next. Of course, in string instruments, generally speaking, the timbral differences are reached smoothly which I will contrast with my next example. The first octave or so of the cello has a deep, slightly lumbering quality, but still has the potential to be lyrical but full bodied. The second octave or so, generally centering around maybe the E or F is quite lyrical, the low, gutteral sound is almost completely gone (mostly due to the construction of the instrument itself) and this is a really great spot for a cello melody. The cello in its third octave, however, starts to get a slightly pitched sound. This air piercing sound is a little annoying on its own, but in the context of a full orchestra, is perfect for cutting through all the other instruments.

This is demonstrated excellently in Brahm's 3rd Symphony's 3rd Movement where in the initial minute or so the celli take care of the melody. If you look at the score, aside from a few dynamic pulses, every instrument in the orchestra is playing at pianismo, including the celli. The celli cut so well through the orchestra because of that particular timbral quality of that part of their register. If he had written the part lower, it's unlikely you would've heard it so clearly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1trE3ms3AGo

One of the instruments which have the most glaring register differences would have to be instruments built similarly to the clarinet (many woodwinds) because there is a split in the keying of the instruments between the lower and upper ends. The lowest note is going to require the most finger-holes covered, giving many woodwinds a nice full lower range, but as the finger-holes are uncovered, the timbre gets breathier and slightly weaker. However, about mid-way between the upper and lower registers, the player must open up a high register switching key and recover all the holes again. Again, this gives the instrument a very full and strong bodied sound but this time the instrument is between 1.5 or 2 octaves above the first low starting note. The cycle runs through again except that the instrument stops getting as breathy and starts getting more nasally--which is both more annoying but also more cutting if you want to push through the orchestra.

Obviously that is a really general example and a good player will smooth the transitions from one timbre to the next, but no one can deny that they're there, three centuries of orchestration is built around this concept.

Choosing your key is not arbitrary. Choosing a key is about effectively accessing certain timbral qualities of certain instruments and yes, it will change how your piece sounds but that is probably because you've pre-selected an instrumentation.

[dannthr]

you're missing what i was talking about. with electronic stuff like that, it's not a big deal, but with live music, things are different. d minor is an awesome range for everything in the orchestra because of where each note sits on the instruments. for example, in d minor, f is the third (lowered from f# for the major). that's low 1 on the e string of the violin (a really dark sounding note compared to the rest of the e string), and the d and a sit in low positions as well. d minor for horns is a minor, which means that they can yell the root on a high a, about the limit for most non-professional horn players (and soundfonts). it gives you a solid basis for drop-d in rock music, and since the low d on a bass's 5th string is about as low as most cheap headphones, car speakers, and normal speakers will go with power, it sounds the best on most radios. for trumpets and clarinets, d minor is actually e minor, giving you a solid high b and maybe even an e on the trumpet (which a good player can reach without screeching) and good range down into the chalumeaux ending on a low e. same with bass clarinet. bones and tuba have good range in both directions on d minor. it's a good range for double reeds too - relatively easy to play compared to some of the other minors.

do you see what i mean? a key 'sounding' better on instruments or vocals is relative to what tones they produce the most naturally. d minor 'fits' the most instruments the best, similar to how bb major is a good fit for most bands.

another good example is the choir i used to sing with. if we had problems dropping the pitch every time we sang a song between the beginning and the end, we'd go a half step in either direction and start it there instead (we did mostly unaccompanied music). we'd stick the pitch like we never had an issue then. certain keys just sit better.

E is the low note on an orchestral bass unless you have a freak five-string double bass.

[prophetik]

uh, drop-d implies guitar tunings, which implies rock, which is what i was talking about. which is wy i said 'solid basis for drop-d in rock music...will go with power'.

edit: this is what i get for not reading an entire post.
Choosing your key is not arbitrary. Choosing a key is about effectively accessing certain timbral qualities of certain instruments and yes, it will change how your piece sounds but that is probably because you've pre-selected an instrumentation.

this is exactly what i'm saying. and, it's all i'm saying.

[Palpable]

Hmm, different keys in the same mode always have different emotions and feels to me, even electronic stuff. I actually hate transposing stuff because when I hear a song in my head it's usually already in the key I want it to be in. (Actually, I'm pretty bad at transposing when I'm singing also.) I'm not sure if the different feels are something inherent to the keys though - it might just be a function of context. G major has a very warm, calming feel to it for me, even with energetic songs, and maybe that could be because growing up I heard a lot of songs in G major with that feeling in the playing or the lyrics? I'm really not sure, but I like the idea that different keys have different feels.

[dannthr]

You might be a tonal synesthetic. Your feeling is not universal, but that's okay, it doesn't have to be.

Or, you might be accustomed to hearing the key of G with similar instrumentations.

[dannthr]

uh, drop-d implies guitar tunings, which implies rock, which is what i was talking about. which is wy i said 'solid basis for drop-d in rock music...will go with power'.

edit: this is what i get for not reading an entire post.


this is exactly what i'm saying. and, it's all i'm saying.

I believe there ARE 5-string orchestral basses, I believe they go down to C, but I don't remember off the top of my head.

My comment was in reply to your assertion that the key of D minor was powerful in the orchestra. I don't necessarily agree, aside from the fact that most CBasses can't reach low D to access their whole key, I think you'll find that it's more how you USE the instruments and their respective registers/timbres that will result in more or less power.

For example, the low ends of the viola and violins are quite weak, but have an interesting character in certain situations. The low note on the Viola is C and the low note on the Violin is G but because their range spans 4.5+ octaves, I think you'll find the keys available to you quite flexible. (Which is probably why the instruments persist to this day despite only minor improvements over the last 150 years)

[TheSnowStorm]

http://www.library.yale.edu/~mkoth/keychar.htm (http://www.library.yale.edu/%7Emkoth/keychar.htm)
/quote]

That link really help me out. I just printed off some key ideas from that site. I'm gonna look over them in the morning.

[QUOTE=cyril] IV - V - iv = epicness.

No lie, use it for a boss battle, high tempo. Accentuate the thirds or not.

You could even go crazy and go IV - V - IV, but that'd work out too happy. :D

All examples are in major key.

I might try that out and see what I get. Thanks!

[dPaladin]

Recently, I have started working on composing video game music so I can have a nice portfolio by the end of my Sophomore year in college (and just for fun as well). What type of chords progression and key signatures do you recommended for the following:

Scary (A fellow composer on an indie game development site told me the chord AEF is good, but what are some other chords to use and keys. I'm working on a soundtrack for a horror/survival game.)
Just crunch some stuff on your own. In fact, fun compositional exercise: pick 5 random notes (I did D, E, G#, A, Bb) and write an entire piece with only those.

Sad,Depressing - I been told E Minor and A Minor from my composing friend. Also, "Cry in Sorrow" from Final Fantasy IV is in the key of D-Flat Major/B-Flat Minor but I wonder would D-Flat Major/B-Flat Minor would work.
As has already been pointed it, all your minor keys are equal in this day and age. It all comes down to orchestration.

World Map (Adventure-Like Theme) Main Themes like the original FF1 and Legend of Zelda's MM's map theme. What keys and chord progressions are they usually in?
Major keys. Actually, Zelda is kind of weird, since it's not really diatonic. It's definitely a major feel though. I think it's:

Intro: Bb Ab Gb F

First time through the theme: Bb Ab Gb Db Cb Bbm F C7 F

Roman numeral analysis is the best way to understand how chords in a progression relate to each other (imo), so here. The intro is just I VII VI V in Bb minor. But what the hell is the theme? It sounds all happy and cheerful like major, but it's got chords on minor scale degrees... but the chords are major. I hesitate to call it minor because it uses all those major chords, but it's a real mess if you put in in major. i, VII, VI, III, N6 (look up Neapolitan 6th chords if you don't know what this is), i, V, V7/V (look up secondary dominants if you don't know what this is. the basic premise is that you're turning your V chord into a temporary I chord), V.

World Map (Sad Depressing) - I could take A and E Minor. Final Fantasy 2 had a very depressing world map theme because of the story.
FF2j or FF4, the SNES FF2? I'm going to pretend you're talking about FF4 because I know that one. Am7, D, F, Am, Bb, E7, C. Repeat, then the "chorus" is Bb, Am, Bb, Am, C, Bm, C, F, Em, Gm, Em, E7. What a kick ass progression that is. The "chorus" is strongly similar to the chorus of Comfortably Numb, and the "verses" sort of remind me of Stairway to Heaven or House of the Rising Sun. The major IV chord in a minor key is one of my favorite things.

In Roman numerals: im7, IV, VI, i, N6 (there's that again), V7, III. It's all standard resolutions of chords except for the V7 to III and the III back to im7 on the repeat, but it's all right because im7 is III with an extra note. ACEG vs CEG.

The chorus displaces our tonal center enough that I don't feel like Roman numeral-ing it. So I won't. This post is probably going to be picked apart enough as it is. :tomatoface:

World Map (Airship, Boats, Etc.) - ??? I have no idea to explain this.
A lot of it's in the orchestration. Uematsu liked to have a soaring theme (usually borrowed from elsewhere in the score) over fast background figures, maybe arpeggios. I'm thinking of FF5 and FF7 in particular here. I know without analysis that they're major (please no one prove me wrong), and they've got a triumphant sound to them. FF6's Falcon theme is an exception, and so is the Flammie (is that the name?) music from the last act of Secret of Mana.

D minor is the saddest of all keys.
I got the reference! Hooray!


iminished and augmented chords out the ass, although it does move on to a minor-sounding melody. I think what Grant does here is use real (as opposed to tonal) transpositions of some of those minor motives, and since he keeps going up and up, it gets more and more uneasy and tense. Go to the top of the tower as Kazooie and just glide around while listening to the music. Utterly epic. :nicework: Grant Kirkhope.

(that conjecture happened in about 5 minutes from simply listening to the song, with little study of the actual notes.. please do speak up if anyone feels otherwise.)

ANOTHER EDIT: play around with a whole-tone scale too. C to C(8va) and then back down, with whole-step intervals only. Try it.
I didn't listen to the thing you posted because I'm laaaaaazy, but if you want something that stays tense, for like a detective chasing a guy in a car or some such crap... and you don't want to use the chromatic scale (which can sound kind of silly) or the whole-tone scale (which sounds sort of dream-like at times), then you can use the octotonic scale, which is good times ahead I GUARANTEE!

piano strings aren't dampened once you go high enough (forgot which note it is), so it will sound different if you transpose stuff
It's an F.

I don't really buy the "key = emotion" connection in terms of pure music. I never care or pay attention to what key I write in and I don't think my music ever suffers for it. I really like writing funky, smooth stuff in F# minor for example which doesn't make any sense given those descriptions.
Does Mega Man 3 hold a particularly strong place in your heart?
The only time I really pay attention to key is if I'm writing for live players or if I'm trying to ensure the low notes of a bass part don't go below, say, C. Scales and chords are more important IMO but I don't really even think about scales much either, compared to chords, which are definitely key to my works.

Where I think key plays more of a role is when being in one key really elicits a different tone than another key from particular live instruments... eg. a French horn that has to play in a higher range than they normally would.
Yeah, all this. But I do think that some keys have a more traditional sound because you hear them more. I avoid C major because it's used so much and I don't want people spotting Heart and Soul in the middle of my symphony. Or whatever. EDIT: Actually C is the only key I have this concern with.

The cello has several timbral variations from one octave or so to the next. Of course, in string instruments, generally speaking, the timbral differences are reached smoothly which I will contrast with my next example. The first octave or so of the cello has a deep, slightly lumbering quality, but still has the potential to be lyrical but full bodied. The second octave or so, generally centering around maybe the E or F is quite lyrical, the low, gutteral sound is almost completely gone (mostly due to the construction of the instrument itself) and this is a really great spot for a cello melody. The cello in its third octave, however, starts to get a slightly pitched sound. This air piercing sound is a little annoying on its own, but in the context of a full orchestra, is perfect for cutting through all the other instruments.

This is demonstrated excellently in Brahm's 3rd Symphony's 3rd Movement where in the initial minute or so the celli take care of the melody. If you look at the score, aside from a few dynamic pulses, every instrument in the orchestra is playing at pianismo, including the celli. The celli cut so well through the orchestra because of that particular timbral quality of that part of their register. If he had written the part lower, it's unlikely you would've heard it so clearly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1trE3ms3AGo
I consider cellos to be most lyrical when they're on that A string, but I'm not a string guy. I'm a woodwind guy! EDIT: Also, the cello section is most definitely going to play that louder. Pianissimo when you have the melody will be played louder than pianissimo when you don't, regardless of register. Though I'll agree that it makes it easier for them to cut through without losing their lightness of sound and that it would be silly to score the melody in a softer register unless you absolutely had to have that sound.

One of the instruments which have the most glaring register differences would have to be instruments built similarly to the clarinet (many woodwinds) because there is a split in the keying of the instruments between the lower and upper ends. The lowest note is going to require the most finger-holes covered, giving many woodwinds a nice full lower range, but as the finger-holes are uncovered, the timbre gets breathier and slightly weaker. However, about mid-way between the upper and lower registers, the player must open up a high register switching key and recover all the holes again. Again, this gives the instrument a very full and strong bodied sound but this time the instrument is between 1.5 or 2 octaves above the first low starting note. The cycle runs through again except that the instrument stops getting as breathy and starts getting more nasally--which is both more annoying but also more cutting if you want to push through the orchestra.
It's a bit misleading to say this about instruments built similarly to the clarinet, because in this regard, there aren't any. The clarinet's Boehm fingering system was modeled after the flute's which was made by the real Boehm. The flute's register key (I don't remember if it's called an octave key or not. I hate playing flute) takes the instrument up an octave and it doesn't change the quality of sound too much unless you're at the very low end of the instrument, which tends to have no force at all behind it. As such, the danger on the flute isn't changing registers, it's writing too low. The clarinet's register key takes it up a twelfth and (as opposed to the flute or sax), a clarinetist would actually have to use a few palm keys in the upper range of the lower register. These are called throat tones and they sound not at all like either register unless your clarinetist is more skilled than I am. Also, crossing the break (as it's called) is more difficult than on either the flute or the saxophone because of the bitchy tone holes that will make the instrument squeal if you don't snap your hand to them in time. The saxophone was designed as an improved clarinet, and the sound is of the same quality between registers, though the lowest notes always shout for me. So again, that's more of a range concern than a register-crossing concern. But your post is certainly correct as it refers to the clarinet.

I believe there ARE 5-string orchestral basses, I believe they go down to C, but I don't remember off the top of my head.
Yeah. Or sometimes they go to B instead. I wiki'd that to be sure because I'm a cheating bastard.

[dannthr]

Yeah, my principle was Clarinet and my secondary was Oboe and I felt like either I was just a crappy Oboe player or there were pretty noticable timbral jumps between the registers.

Though, I do feel like these are smoothed out with a really competent player.

Additionally, the low end of the flute, which is really breathy and weak, does have a quality worth using in the appropriate situation, as is the case for most instruments.

I wanted to bring this up, again, because when we have a discussion on keys, we can't ignore that certain keys will force certain instruments into certain ranges that will have timbral effects on seemingly intangable qualities like "warmth" and "lyrical" and "harsh." I wanted to make sure that this consideration wasn't ignored as it is often ignored by beginning composers.

[TheSnowStorm]

FF2j or FF4, the SNES FF2? I'm going to pretend you're talking about FF4 because I know that one. Am7, D, F, Am, Bb, E7, C. Repeat, then the "chorus" is Bb, Am, Bb, Am, C, Bm, C, F, Em, Gm, Em, E7. What a kick ass progression that is. The "chorus" is strongly similar to the chorus of Comfortably Numb, and the "verses" sort of remind me of Stairway to Heaven or House of the Rising Sun. The major IV chord in a minor key is one of my favorite things.

Final Fantasy 2j.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pq6QkIv7Cs&feature=related

I could not find the true, original version, but that's one is good enough.



A lot of it's in the orchestration. Uematsu liked to have a soaring theme (usually borrowed from elsewhere in the score) over fast background figures, maybe arpeggios. I'm thinking of FF5 and FF7 in particular here. I know without analysis that they're major (please no one prove me wrong), and they've got a triumphant sound to them. FF6's Falcon theme is an exception, and so is the Flammie (is that the name?) music from the last act of Secret of Mana.

I'm gonna prove you wrong with my crap music theory knowledge!

I kid but FF5 had an airship theme? Speaking of airship, what you make of "Searching for Friends"? I mean, it wasn't truly triumphant in terms.

I just play around until I find want I like.

[Gario]

Oi! It hurts seeing this forum jostled like this... Most people believe that keys have 'emotion' because of the tuning practices of western musical history. From Pythagorian tuning (pure 5ths, non-pure octaves) to Just tuning (5ths slightly off, octaves pure), to Mean tuning (3rds & 6ths approximately perfect, 8ths perfect), musicians and mathematicians were tinkering with the exact sounds of the half and whole steps. Finally, WELL TEMPERED tuning (not equal tempered) took over around the time of Bach, which was standard until roughly 1850. In that tuning system, every different key could be played, but each really did have a different sound or emotion, as each key had a variety of differently tuned half and whole steps. Today, this is not true, so most keys are in fact one and the same... unless you have perfect pitch, of course :) And, yes I know the quote was Spinal Tap, but some other people seemed confused on this issue, so I hope this helps clear it up a bit.

Now... as for the subject at hand, why do you really want to use 'chords' for you atmospheric music? In your case, it may help you to not think of your music in terms of chords; otherwise, it may be a little clunky for the mood. Try, instead, to think of the music as overlapping melodies. Observe the intervals between the notes and figure out which sounds you enjoy the best (for each particular song) and exploit them.

(If you want to hear my favorite 'progression', though, it's one from a Brahm's Aria (I forget the name right now)... cm - BM 6-3 - bm - BbM 6-3... etc. :))

[Ceracryst]

I don't know much music theory, but my <3 chord progression is i - IV, or however you notate it. Cmin to Fmaj. Sounds grand and epic in the fantasy way. Or if you flip it around, I - v, Fmaj to Cmin, you're suddenly staring breathlessly at the sunlight peeking through the canopy of the lush elven forests.

[dPaladin]

i-IV is tasty. Borrowed major chords are awesome. I use it heavily, like in this progression:

i-IV-i-IV-VI-III-VII-V7

[anosou]

*Sigh*

Some people don't seem to realize that a specific key (ex: D minor) sounds EXACTLY the same as any other key of the respective type (ex: G minor) just that the notes are raised or lowered to the new pitch. Play a line in D- then play the exact same line in G-, it won't be any less sad/happy or any different at all except that the notes themselves are raised a P4 from the D- one. So what you're really saying is: "Huh? Natural minor keys don't usually sound sad" For this reason, when asking for "which specific chords (or progressions) sound good (ex: A to E to F) < this isn't really the best way to say it. A better way would be (1, P5, +6) because this can be used easily in any key. or if you prefer (1[minor triad] P5 [major triad] +6 [seventh chord]) or whatever the chords are.

Just chiming in to tell you you're wrong. Each note (and instrument for that matter) produces different tones (i.e. variations in air pressure or such.. I'm bad at explaining this in english). My point being that different tones sounds different and the same scale in different tones DO sound different. There has been a lot of research about this and I wish I could link you but I've only heard about it in class at university.

Anyway, minor keys DO sound "sad" but C minor and D minor keys does NOT sound the same, they're just visually built the same way (in notes and on instruments)