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PSN is Back!!! - LulzSEC hacked by someone else. TROLOLOLOLOL

Brushfire

By Brushfire,
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Brushfire Newbie

Brushfire

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So, looks like that free service aint so great anymore is it?

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/04/25/did-sony-shut-down-psn-to-combat-piracy.aspx

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/04/26/sony-shuts-down-playstation-network-indefinitely/

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/04/25/rumor-rebug-custom-firmware-enabled-free-psn-downloads-for/

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BardicKnowledge Newbie

BardicKnowledge

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One positive thing that arises out of all of this is that there's (slightly) more public awareness of Sony removing an advertised feature (the ability to install Linux) from their PS3s.

Yes, it sucks that PSN is down. However, it also sucks that people who bought a PS3 over a 360 primarily because of the ability to use it as a Linux computer can't do that anymore.

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Level 99 Newbie

Level 99

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XBOX Live has gone down for a WEEK before.

Anyway, Sony deserves every bit of bad publicity they get right now. I feel no pity for them. Arrogance, followed by denial, followed by panic, followed by disaster, followed by a total lack of communication.

Your post came up with the "Seriously" Homestar Runner image right underneath it, and I couldn't stop laughing for 2 whole minutes.

The whole epeen contest between PSN and XBL is total BS. One service is pay, the other isn't. They've both experienced downtime before. However much Sony deserves bad press right now, it in no way indicates XBL is superior in any way. (Ninja edit: "In all seriousness, Home is terrible, but PSN aint awful for being free.

It's still no Steam though. Which ironically you could get on PSN. If it weren't down." <-- I agree with this 110%)

That being said, it sucks that regular gamers are getting the short end of the stick with all that is going down over at Sony right now. While some are becoming a little more enlightened about what was done with the removal of Install OtherOS on the PS3, I guarantee you 90% of the people right now are thinking "Oh, those fuckers who were hacking that one game in COD:BO have taken down the whole PSN and taken my credit card info! DEATH TO ALL HACKERZ!!!" Funny thing is that many of the people I know who aren't computer-savvy actually draw a correlation between technological prowess and an affinity to hack. So I feel worse for anyone trying to defend open source software and the Sony-Linux issue because they'll all automatically be labeled as teh h@x0rZ.

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Brushfire Newbie

Brushfire

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oh fuck off. It was perfectly fine being free and great when it wasn't down. The second something happens its "OH YEAH! LOOK AT THAT PS3 USERS! LOOK HOW GREAT YOUR 'FREE' ONLINE PLAY IS NOW LOLOLOLOLOL"

Shit happens.

You fell right into my troll trap!

WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

In all seriousness, Home is terrible, but PSN aint awful for being free.

It's still no Steam though. Which ironically you could get on PSN. If it weren't down.

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XZero Newbie

XZero

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For shutting down PSN for this long, Sony owes PS3 and PSP owners something. Everyone says PSN is "free," but that's really not the case for two reasons. First, PSN+ people do, in fact, pay a subscription fee, and they are being denied access. Second, normal PSN users who do not pay any fees did pay for the service and are being denied its use. The payment is part of the price of the system. Sony likely factors in some type of charge for PSN into the price of the system, but even if it doesn't, that's part of the value of the product to the consumer.

Consequently, when the network is taken completely offline for an extended period of time, part of the package consumers bought when they purchased the PS3 system is compromised. For this reason, Sony owes any PS3 owner some form of restitution (a person is entitled to restitution when he or she confers a benefit to another in exchange for something and that bargained-for item/service is not delivered; the person can seek damages instead, but where, as here, damages are highly speculative except for PSN+ subscribers, damages are not preferred). It doesn't need to be excessive; give everyone a $10 credit on their account to buy some DLC or a classic game.

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SenPi Newbie

SenPi

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no. Sony doesnt owe anybody anything. Maybe.. maaaaaybe the psn+ users, but not the regular psn users. You have a free system. If something goes down, that sucks. You aren't "entitled" to anything. Sony might give their users something in return, but by no means do they "have" to. I hate when people act like they are entitled to all these things.

Case in point, on any side of the spectrum when something happens to either of the systems services, the people from the opposite system are like "LOLOLOL". ps3 goes down and xbox owners are like "LOL look at what that free service got you!!", xbox goes down and ps3 owners are like "LOL look at what you are paying for!!". Everybody just needs to shut up.

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XZero Newbie

XZero

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no. Sony doesnt owe anybody anything. Maybe.. maaaaaybe the psn+ users, but not the regular psn users. You have a free system. If something goes down, that sucks. You aren't "entitled" to anything. Sony might give their users something in return, but by no means do they "have" to. I hate when people act like they are entitled to all these things.

I respectfully disagree, though I doubt we could come to an agreement on this because our core positions are fundamentally in opposition. You say it's a "free system." I say it is not free; to the contrary, I paid for it when I paid $300 for the system last year. It was not an external cost, ala XBox Live, but I assure you PSN is not free.

With respect to entitlement, there is a significant difference between acting "entitled" and being entitled. Entitlement, as a matter of law, is "[a]n absolute right to a benefit ... granted immediately upon meeting a legal requirement." Black's Law Dictionary. The legal requirement in this case is payment of the requested fee, here, the price of the console. This confers an absolute right to a benefit, the reasonable use of PSN services, on the purchasing party.

There is another side to this argument, of course, and it is a combination of your point, DJ SymBiotiX, and a legal argument on Sony's behalf. Gamers do not pay a continuing price for PSN services (putting aside PSN+ subscribers for a minute). Moreover, in the agreement that you have to accept to sign on to PSN, I am quite certain there is a provision for "black-outs," likely by a different name, allowing for them to shut down the services. However, if challenged in court, there is a reasonable possibility that a court would work around that provision or otherwise exise it from the contract because it essentially compels the consumer to agree to forfeit something he or she paid for. Furthermore, without reading the provision, I cannot be sure, but black-outs would likely have to last for a reasonable duration. It is hard to say whether a week or more is a reasonable duration for a service like this, but I would certainly argue in court that it was not. After that, you just kick it to the jury and see where your argument takes you--and hope the jurors are young Call of Duty gamers ;)

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Toadofsky Newbie

Toadofsky

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I honestly have to agree with XZero on the fact that Sony needs to address BOTH "free" users and Playstation Plus users with some sort of compensation in some form.

But I'll admit, I don't think I can really give any sort of judgement, given that I've never owned a Sony console. But it amazes me how much trouble Sony seems to have had in the past few years with the PS3 and it's online network.

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Modus Newbie

Modus

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I'm with Symbiotix. No one is entitled to compensation, I wouldn't even say plus members unless it goes a full month. I buy electronics with the understanding that someday they can and will let me down, it's a risk all consumers take.

What does piss me off to no end is that Sony has the balls to not give a detailed explanation of what's going on. They won't even give us proper warning if we might need to keep an eye on our credit/debit card accounts. I just had my Xbox account frauded and charged $230 and now this. I JUST WANT TO GET THROUGH MY FINALS WITHOUT LOSING MY MIND PLZ

At least I'm primarily a PC gamer. I still have my fix.

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zircon Newbie

zircon

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RAHHH SONY IS SO EVIL AND THE WORST COMPANY EVER!

Meanwhile, General Electric (a way bigger company) made billions of dollars and paid absolutely no taxes at a time when the U.S. is facing a crippling deficits and our lawmakers are slashing union rights, public services and education in the name of deficit reduction.

Can we keep things in perspective?

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RDX Newbie

RDX

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i would love it if sony came out this thing saying, "sorry. here's a free wallpaper for all your troubles."

RAHHH SONY IS SO EVIL AND THE WORST COMPANY EVER!

Meanwhile, General Electric (a way bigger company) made billions of dollars and paid absolutely no taxes at a time when the U.S. is facing a crippling deficits and our lawmakers are slashing union rights, public services and education in the name of deficit reduction.

Can we keep things in perspective?

dude some people are like, 12. they don't care about any of that.
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zircon Newbie

zircon

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I don't think anyone is suggesting it's a bigger deal than any of those things...

Nah, of course not. But overall, on the Internet, I'm seeing way more rage about Sony than about GE (or the other tax-evading giant corporations). Yeah, I get it, we're all gamers, we're passionate about gaming, blah blah. I get mad at game companies too for various reasons. But it's kind of absurd that Sony is being treated like the antichrist across the board, being subjected to hacks, etc., meanwhile there are these far bigger companies doing far worse things, and I don't see any internet protests or hacktivism directed at them. You'd think, especially given how strongly so many people on the Internet feel about their rights being infringed on, they would care way more about giant corporations trampling all over them.

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Level 99 Newbie

Level 99

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Nah, of course not. But overall, on the Internet, I'm seeing way more rage about Sony than about GE (or the other tax-evading giant corporations). Yeah, I get it, we're all gamers, we're passionate about gaming, blah blah. I get mad at game companies too for various reasons. But it's kind of absurd that Sony is being treated like the antichrist across the board, being subjected to hacks, etc., meanwhile there are these far bigger companies doing far worse things, and I don't see any internet protests or hacktivism directed at them. You'd think, especially given how strongly so many people on the Internet feel about their rights being infringed on, they would care way more about giant corporations trampling all over them.

Start a GE hate thread then, Andy. Let us complain about Sony in here! I BET YOU SONY DODGED TAXES TOO! AND EATS KITTENS! AND SHREDS WHALES!

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Crowbar Man Newbie

Crowbar Man

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Rumor has it one of the reasons Sony had to shut down the network is because they have abolutely the worst security imaginable. If the math error that let failoverflow open the system wide wasn't enough, apparently if a system identifies itself as a debug unit without bothering to check any other data or credentials it gets access to developer only sections of psn. And Project Rebug turns regular ps3s into debug units, so yeah. Anybody who installed it gets into a backdoor and had access to who knows what. Sony is terrible at doing anything right honestly

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