Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[Infinity's End]

I'm sorta getting tired of all the sexual innuendo surrounding this game... Samus was the original kick-ass female. It was cool because she WAS so unapproachable, and the suit was built for a pretty built person. It's lame how they dropped to the lowest common denominator with the zero suit.

At least the tone of the game won't be sleazy, unlike some of the discussions I've seen on game sites have been.

I think your claim is HIGHLY exaggerated and pretty much unsubstantiated. Samus has ALWAYS been Nintendo's "sexy girl" as can be seen since the ending of Metroid 2. The Zero-Suit is especially hot because it's skin-tight, basically letting her run around naked and not be naked at the same time. (yeah the fan service is rampant) But you can't have Snake without having sexual innuendo. It's not like all the girls in the game are gonna start running around in their bikinis and flashing people to make them die ala B. Orchid's finishing move.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Female sexuality is just like male masculinity. Get over it.

[Vyse the Three Eyes]

I think it's likely that Captain Olimar would be in Brawl... if he weren't the size of a quarter. It makes me sad, I wanted to see him in there.

Bowser is usually five times the size of Mario, and actually, if I remember correctly, canoically Kirby is EXTREMELY small. Size doesn't really matter in Smash, at least, size that they are seperately from eachother. That's why I think Chibi Robo could make it in.

[Kureejii Lea]

I am curious as to how those conversations get implemented during a fight.

I was thinking probably similar to the way the Star Fox team convos were in SSBM (during Fox/Falco's second taunt).

[Eulogic]

I'm thinking they will appear before Snake's single-player matches.

It looks like Snake has a detonator toward the beginning of the gameplay part of the video. Perhaps he has a C4 move?

[Hum4n After All]

The music is fantastic.

I never noticed it earlier because I was just too excited.

That better be the main song of Shadow Moses Island.

I would absolutely "shoot" my leg if it was.

[friendlyHunter]

The music is fantastic.

I never noticed it earlier because I was just too excited.

That better be the main song of Shadow Moses Island.

I would absolutely "shoot" my leg if it was.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/music/music08.html

EVERY song is the main song! =D

Now get shootin'!

The first video made my laugh, because I knew someone who didn't know who Mario was - explaining to someone who Mario is is a little awkward. But she does know now, so maybe that doesn't count? =p

So I watched the gameplay video frame-by-frame (HEY, it only takes a couple minutes!), and noticed some things.

- Yes, that's almost definitely a detonator Snake's using at the start.

- Wario eats a grenade, and then proceeds to grow twice his size before returning completely to normal. (er, whatever "normal" is for Wario)

- This happens twice: one character uses a shield, gets hit, and then the shield is gone... did they let go of the shield button in favour of making a nice action video, or are the shields only good for one hit? If I felt like looking at it longer I could maybe figure it out...

- Some of Snake's attack animations are incredible in slow motion, very lifelike

- It seems when a character is grabbed, a big twirly circle thing appears. I'm all for nice visual cues like that =]

- Mario's neck is broken, but he still manages to keep his hat on. Impressive.

[MasterSenshi]

I think your claim is HIGHLY exaggerated and pretty much unsubstantiated. Samus has ALWAYS been Nintendo's "sexy girl" as can be seen since the ending of Metroid 2. The Zero-Suit is especially hot because it's skin-tight' date=' basically letting her run around naked and not be naked at the same time. (yeah the fan service is rampant) But you can't have Snake without having sexual innuendo. It's not like all the girls in the game are gonna start running around in their bikinis and flashing people to make them die ala B. Orchid's finishing move. [/quote']

I didn't know a single person who beat Metroid fast enough to acheive that... you'd be in your 30s to have the skills to pull that off. And it was a single scene. Through the first few Metroid games there was a common misconception Samus was MALE.

If you're old enough to have played it in the 80s or early 90s I'll concede that we probably grew up in totally different areas. But regardless one scene is not an entire game. And where did Soul Calibur turn into Metroid?

I'll make it as clear as day: since the mid-90s girls in games have been either oversexed, or very chibi-ish. The companies are playing to the lowest common denominator, and it's sad. You might have some capitallistic reasoning for all this nonsense, but that doesn't make it any less appalling.

[Admiral_C]

I didn't know a single person who beat Metroid fast enough to acheive that... you'd be in your 30s to have the skills to pull that off.

WTF?

10 characters

[MasterSenshi]

Female sexuality is just like male masculinity. Get over it.

I have to look at an ever-decaying society each week. It would be impossible for me to get over it, when I study this stuff in school. It's really, really sad how numb people are, when, sexuality is equated with 'maturity' when it's just some adolescent yearning to play with an imaginary character.

Why is it that we can't have any dignity in our culture anymore? Yeah, I've seen women before. I happen to think women are one of the greatest thing on this planet. This does not however transfer into an acceptance of any overweening female or male masculinity.

We have games advocating mass murder, theft, arson, promiscuity, terrorism, games that endorse having sex with as many girls as possible, blowing up anyone in your way, etc. I've played some of these games, but I didn't fully realize the destructive impact it has when you watch over and over again somebody being slaughtered, and you enjoy it.

I'm not Jack Thompson, or one of these psycho legislators. I've played video games almost my entire freaking life. I used to be totally in love with them. But video games is a media of art and entertainment. Society shapes it, and rather than being proactive, game makers layed down and gave in to the same crap the movie industry did. Whatever twisted crap sells, we will make.

From a fiscal prospective, that may be fine. But ethically, socially and psychologically I can attest, as well as several other gamers I know, that shooting people in the head, blowing them, and doing other acts numbs you. I'm an adult now, and I'm not going to argue for stuff so I can stay up late and play the newest game. I don't need to anymore.

But I'm also not going to go and advocate for the same social engineering that's made people flee from marriage and has our society in an identity crisis.

And what does this have to do with Smash Bros.? Conditioning. If someone can show me another prominent woman in a game (regardless of it's violence) that doesn't look like a bimbo, or available, I'll concede that. I'm not even suggesting people don't have the right to do this; but what you have a right to do and what is good for society is usually a set of different things. Video game characters lack sexuality, and even speculating whether A.I. could model human sexuality is moot for quite a while, so that doesn't factor in either. What does factor in is, whether we just see people as hollow, one-dimensional vessels for our desires or not, and in a small way, I see this Zero Suit crap as adding fuel to the fire that's separating our country and planet apart.

[Ralphis]

I see this Zero Suit crap as adding fuel to the fire that's separating our country and planet apart.

Separating it apart, yes. Although since the dawn of man this has been the natural order. The world as we know it is on the brink of destruction because Samus now flaunts her ripe breasts.

[Triad Orion]

Normally I don't stick my head into these kinds of debates, but I heavily disagree with you on the point of "numbness." Most studies have indicated that violence in videogames does not numb a person to actual violence. Most studies show it as a viable release of aggression and is ultimately more healthy than not.

Also, in some cases, sensitivity to violence may actually INCREASE as a result of playing video games extensively.

As for the rest of your argument, I don't wish to sound judgmental or offensive, but I think you're being a little over the top with your assessment. Clearly, society is *not* falling apart, as we have not and will not fall into anarchy because video games create stereotypes of women and men or, in theory, causing us to become more prone to violence. Every major form of media in the twentieth century has been criticizied as "destroying society" and "traditional values", but society has clearly held on and the family unit still exists. Literature, Radio, Movies, Comic Books, Television, Rock-and-Roll, heavy metal music, rap, revealing clothing... they've all been accused of similar things you're accusing video games of doing... yet Western society remains intact, and these once criticized and attacked media have all become accepted into open modern society.

Video Games are no different than any of those. They are a viable form of free speech, just like television, music, radio, and print. And as for what messages they send? Hell, look at R-Rated movies. These don't catch flak, and they're arguably worse than games like GTA. Yeah, the game may endorse a sleazy concept, but... if you censor that, why not censor the book or TV show that references similar content? It's a dangerous thing to deal with.

As for "responsibility", the responsibility lies not only with the makers, but the buyers as well. GTA is a series that you must purchase; if you do your research, you know what you are getting into. Any responisble person should do that to begin with. And it's not like video games are being force-fed to society; they're willingly accepted, and purchased. The buyer assumes responsbility that they have some idea what they're getting into, and the maker's responsibility is to put information out there about it so buyers make informed decisions.

Truthfully, I don't see why this degrades society. Violence and sex are socially accepted as it stands anyway. Sex has been for decades, and Violence for centuries. I don't feel as though any of this stuff in video games is anything new; hence why I believe your argument is a bit over the top and extreme.

[Vyse the Three Eyes]

What does factor in is, whether we just see people as hollow, one-dimensional vessels for our desires or not, and in a small way, I see this Zero Suit crap as adding fuel to the fire that's separating our country and planet apart.

The reactionary bullshit about Zero Suit Samus is such a steaming pile. It's a jumpsuit. You see EVERYONE in them in science fiction, and it's not always inherently sexual. Is it skintight? Why yes, jumpsuits usually are. But I can tell you that Snake is showing off more well-toned ass than Samus here.

A better question is whether or not our ability to not see 'THE SEXUAL CORRUPTION' in every little thing says anything about whether or not it's us ourselves who have issues. Do you also get angry about densitisation to sexuality when you see an olympic swimmer in a swimsuit? Those things hug curves when wet, afterall. How about gymist outfits, those are clearly signs that our world is falling apart, right?

For the record, go play Fire Emblem. Filled with women, and I can think of maybe one out of every 30 or 40 that's designed to be inherently sexual.

Edit: Goddamn you Triad. You and your intellectual replies. Make me look like a dick... </grumble>

[Triad Orion]

For the record, go play Fire Emblem. Filled with women, and I can think of maybe one out of every 30 or 40 that's designed to be inherently sexual.

Not only that, but most of them are designed to be positive female role models. Most female FE characters are unusually strong women given the medieval setting in which the games take place. Lyndis from Blazing Sword immediately comes to mind.

EDIT:

You still make your point markedly well, Vyse.

[Vyse the Three Eyes]

Not only that, but most of them are designed to be positive female role models. Most female FE characters are unusually strong women given the medieval setting in which the games take place. Lyndis from Blazing Sword immediately comes to mind.

It's one of the reasons I love Fire Emblem. I can't think of a single other series which manages to encompase so many different kinds of characters into a single game, rather than relying on a bunch of meathead bloodthirsty males and scantily clad women, or all girlyboys and extremely manly females. It just seems like a bunch of different-view people, rather than the cut and dry stereotypes, yanno? So it's easy to shrug off the occassional 'sexual' female as someone who, just like real life, sometimes just makes a concious choice to be that way.

I'm a bit of a fanboy, if you couldn't tell, heh.

[DjSammyG]

I'm not sure Samus would appreciate you implying that she's a bimbo.

[Triad Orion]

It's one of the reasons I love Fire Emblem. I can't think of a single other series which manages to encompase so many different kinds of characters into a single game, rather than relying on a bunch of meathead bloodthirsty males and scantily clad women, or all girlyboys and extremely manly females. It just seems like a bunch of different-view people, rather than the cut and dry stereotypes, yanno? So it's easy to shrug off the occassional 'sexual' female as someone who, just like real life, sometimes just makes a concious choice to be that way.

I'm a bit of a fanboy, if you couldn't tell, heh.

Can't blame you at all. That's one of the reasons I grew to love the Fire Emblem series as well. A wide range of characters ranging from your quintessential good guys (Eliwood, Seth, Kent), to the much more flawed, less than pleasant, roguish fellows (Shinon, Soren, Legault, Rennac). Not to mention the largely positive portrayal of women in the universes. Selena is a major general of a nation, Vaida is a vicious warrior with a strong will, and Titania as a knight with a lot of courage and great fighting ability. And that's just naming a few. Great series that.

Hope it gets more representation in Brawl. ...Hopefully Hector will be playable.

[MasterSenshi]

OK...

The last few posts agree with my two posts in spirit, and yet they're being conveyed as disagreement? Anyway...

I never stated that things should be censored. Actually I stated I don't advocate censorship, what I'm against is people treating this as if it has no effect on individuals. One of the reasons I classed video games with movies is because there has been an effect shown in other media, especially television. Although there have been inconclusive findings on different video games studies, one of the reasons why I added in video games compared with older forms of media is because of the cumulative effect.

My use of the term societal breakdown was apparently too cliched. To be more specific I'm referring to behaviors that aggravate the distance and anomie present in modern day society. I could go back 2 centuries to show a slow development of it, based on researchers superior to myself, but I'm more concerned with what's happening today. Regardless of what a study shows, it should be obvious that what you observe effects your thinking and biases. That is substantiated in research. I won't say that video games will have a greater or lesser effect, but it seems naive that so many of these studies conclude there must be no effect at all. I don't want to be trite, but a rejected null hypothesis doesn't prove that.

Samus is an image, code, drawing, etc. My main point is that we're allowing people to treat individuals and relationships as cheap and petty, and this is manifested through media. It was pretty implicit because I stated more or less art follows life. However that doesn't mean every vendor has to follow trends that glorify destructive behavior. I don't want any media outlawed, but I don't want this applauded either, and I'm seeing plenty of applause on the internet for a contiuation of the trend of sexualized video games.

And yes, FE is cool for those reasons as well as an awesome plot and battle system.

[Triad Orion]

OK...

The last few posts agree with my two posts in spirit, and yet they're being conveyed as disagreement? Anyway...

I never stated that things should be censored. Actually I stated I don't advocate censorship, what I'm against is people treating this as if it has no effect on individuals. One of the reasons I classed video games with movies is because there has been an effect shown in other media, especially television. Although there have been inconclusive findings on different video games studies, one of the reasons why I added in video games compared with older forms of media is because of the cumulative effect.

My use of the term societal breakdown was apparently too cliched. To be more specific I'm referring to behaviors that aggravate the distance and anomie present in modern day society. I could go back 2 centuries to show a slow development of it, based on researchers superior to myself, but I'm more concerned with what's happening today. Regardless of what a study shows, it should be obvious that what you observe effects your thinking and biases. That is substantiated in research. I won't say that video games will have a greater or lesser effect, but it seems naive that so many of these studies conclude there must be no effect at all. I don't want to be trite, but a rejected null hypothesis doesn't prove that.

Samus is an image, code, drawing, etc. My main point is that we're allowing people to treat individuals and relationships as cheap and petty, and this is manifested through media. It was pretty implicit because I stated more or less art follows life. However that doesn't mean every vendor has to follow trends that glorify destructive behavior. I don't want any media outlawed, but I don't want this applauded either, and I'm seeing plenty of applause on the internet for a contiuation of the trend of sexualized video games.

And yes, FE is cool for those reasons as well as an awesome plot and battle system.

Ah, your argument's becoming clearer now.

The problem is, I don't really know if a cumilative effect really applies to this matter. Perhaps it does, but I believe you can make the argument that people can differentiate media forms and filter the images/messages as appropriate. In this case, video games are a tactile, active sensation as opposed to a passive one like television. While one could make the argument that such sensations would encourage violence, I'd suggest that active participation in video games actually acts as an effective release for aggression. Now, that does not actively apply to sexuality, but that's another matter.

The sexuality issue is more complex. Samus may very well be drawings, code, and computerized graphics. But she really isn't any different in that regard than old comic books, pin-up posters, or pictures of models in general. Really, any visual representation of "ideal" sexuality falls under the same umbrella. Again, if this is a problem, it's certainly not new. Part of the reason why the sexualized image of women is popular is because sex is not a taboo anymore; people can more willingly demand it, and at this point there's nothing really wrong with that. Moreover, part of the reason why you see the calls for it... is well, because it's the Internet. A source of anonymonity and open forum.

At this point, I pose the question... just how destructive is open sexuality in media? I'd say it's not really all that destructive at all. Most people are capable of discerning fiction from fact; and while there are many men out there who would say "Samus is hot," there are probably very few mature individuals who would mistake her for an actual, physically real woman. So... really, I don't think that Samus's Zero-Suit cheapens most relationships or individiual women for that reason.

And you're right, not every vendor HAS to follow the trend of sexuality, but... when the market speaks, the vendor is usually obliged to deliver what's demanded to remain competitive. And with sexuality being demanded, that's what sells.

I understand your frustration with the issue, however. Though I don't see it as a crisis or a problem, I do understand your view to some extent.

[!Nekko!]

Whatever, as long as Captain Falcon is there

[JackKieser]

You know, I'm going to sound like a dick for a second, but hear me out.

It is my personal opinion that women are WAY too overplayed in this day and age. Kids too, but that's another topic all together. If you search 'Bill Maher on Feminism', you'll see him explain it better than I ever could. Basically, the way I see it is, gaming is a typically male-run industry. Here at DigiPen, only about 8% of our entire student body is female. About 70-80% of those students aren't even IN the CS department. So you know what? Yeah, games are going to put women in overtly sexual roles (and, for the record, yeah, ZSS is sexualized. Look at all that breast, all that breast inside that shirt.), because we, as men, want to bone women. It's in our nature.

But somehow, we're bad people. You know what, if women don't like it so much, they should be making games. (Yes, I DO think this is a good idea, and yes, this is a challenge) You know what, all this moralistic crap is a front for simply not liking what is around; people use morals as an excuse for wanting the world around them to change. MasterSenshi, I have to say, I respect you more than the average because you have already stated that if you don't like it, you simply won't buy it, which ultimately is the point; if you don't like what's on TV, change the channel.

Now, that said, yes, as an art and a medium of entertainment, we do have an effect on society. This is something we should exploit, however. You know why we have douchebags like JT? Because society is still full of people who think like they are in the stone age, people who don't have the ability to view another's beliefs as valid yet not adopt the view themselves. I say, bring on the ass. Bring on the tits. Bring on the violence, bring on the destruction, bring on the emotion, bring on the art. I don't believe we are having an 'identity crisis'. I think we are having a free thought crisis; all of these free ideas are coming from every angle, and we don't know how to handle that anymore.

And as for glorifying certain behaviors... we are humans. Let's get that out of the way; we are destructive by nature. All society does is try to curb that tendency. Of course our entertainment is going to glorify that behavior: entertainment is the only outlet society HAS for that behavior.

In short: women are overrated, and can be used and have their feelings hurt just like guys can; the more radical the ideas shown by media, the better; it is in our nature to be messed up, so we should deal with it correctly instead of trying to suppress it at every turn, cause that is dangerous.

--Jack Kieser

EDIT: Oh, and fuck yeah to ExciteBike. Way to go, again, Sakurai.

[Linkjing Donuts]

ahaha i like how sakurai didn't feel like lakitu and spinys didn't deserve to get their own post

[Global-Trance]

I knew Excitebike would join the fun in some form or another!

[Arek the Absolute]

women are so cliche

cliches are cliche

pixel art is cliche

doesnt mean i dont like it

also i am so going to make a new thread for this game when it comes out cause yeehaw this threads a new one bad but not right now cause the game isnt out and it also needs a new one cause you know the thread creator is banned and all and no baha you will not "thread get" one up me D:

[Amayirot Akago]

Double Assist Trophy update! Pixelized Excitebike and Lakitu

EDIT: Darn it, you guys beat me to it.