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Airwalker Newbie

Airwalker

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Everyone please say that at least once so Sakurai will, as he probably reads this site, make our dreams come true once more.

I highly doubt they are spending this delay time to add extra characters--that was probably decided on a year ago. People blaming Sonic being added as the reason for the delay don't realize how at this point in development, games are mostly being polished. This isn't your 5th grade science fair project--they are not adding a ton of basic things they suddenly remembered.

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friendlyHunter Newbie

friendlyHunter

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I highly doubt they are spending this delay time to add extra characters--that was probably decided on a year ago. People blaming Sonic being added as the reason for the delay don't realize how at this point in development, games are mostly being polished. This isn't your 5th grade science fair project--they are not adding a ton of basic things they suddenly remembered.

No kidding. The developers are probably having a laugh at all the random internet webcomics and such that blame Sonic for the delay.

Everyone please say that at least once so Sakurai will, as he probably reads this site, make our dreams come true once more.

Say what now? By the way, Midna and Wolf Link would make an awesome character!

I can see Midna as a good assist trophy though... maybe teleporting people around, or grabbing them with her hair.

And while I beat the game a while ago, I'm kind of annoyed by the merciless posting of spoilers with no warnings. On that note: The thing that really bugged me about Wolf Link in TP was that Midna is 10 times more powerful than Link, but aside form teleporting bridges and opening doors in temples, she never actually uses any of her powers to help you. And why is it that she can lift and teleport massive bridges weighing 10 tonnes apiece, but you need the help of a random people and a CHICKEN to get where you want to go? And then there's that one chasm with a missing bridge, where instead of Midna helping you build a bridge out of, say, any one of the hundred giant rocks lying around Death Mountain, Link has to single-handedly raise money to get one built?!?? And the parts where Midna hovers around, and you press a button to make Wolf Link jump ridiculous distances towards her... what the heck is that all about? Midna kind of made a joke out of the gameplay, but is still a fun character.

Also, am I the only one annoyed by the fact that characters (especially Midna) make the exact same sound and animation every time something happens? For example: every time Wolf Link runs she makes that "Oh!" noise like she's totally surprised, as if Wolf Link has never run before. I mean, that kind of shoddy and repetitive character interaction was OK back in the day of Ocarina of Time, but now it makes the characters seem "wooden"... not that they already aren't wooden, but it sure isn't helping. Phew, this TP rant is over.

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Gerbah Newbie

Gerbah

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friendlyHunter, yeah a lot of parts of Twilight Princess were kinda shifty in that sense. Definitely agree with you. Oh, one thing I noticed in the game though was the whole "jumping to Midna" business, I believe (it's hard to see) but she grabs Link with that hair-hand of hers and drags him over to the spot she's hovering. Not sure about that, or why she can do this while in her "shadowy" form or whatever, but I think I remember seeing that happen. But it definitely would have been nice if she would've helped out a bit more!

On that note, I can see Midna making into the game in some way, be it playable/assist/trophy/or at the VERY very least a sticker. I mean, they are going with the whole "Twilight Princess" vibe for the Zelda characters.

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Aninymouse Newbie

Aninymouse

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friendlyHunter, yeah a lot of parts of Twilight Princess were kinda shifty in that sense. Definitely agree with you. Oh, one thing I noticed in the game though was the whole "jumping to Midna" business, I believe (it's hard to see) but she grabs Link with that hair-hand of hers and drags him over to the spot she's hovering. Not sure about that, or why she can do this while in her "shadowy" form or whatever, but I think I remember seeing that happen. But it definitely would have been nice if she would've helped out a bit more!

On that note, I can see Midna making into the game in some way, be it playable/assist/trophy/or at the VERY very least a sticker. I mean, they are going with the whole "Twilight Princess" vibe for the Zelda characters.

I believe part of why Midna didn't help out more with Link's tasks can be explained by two logical points. First of all, gameplay-wise, it wouldn't be very condusive to the atmosphere to have Midna do a lot of things automatically FOR you, like lift you over things, since it would make Wolf Link seem totally helpless/useless, not to mention that too much automation takes the feeling of "control" out of the experience. Secondly, having Midna constantly taunt and egg Link on generally just builds her character for the first half of the game when it is still unclear just how much of a "good guy" she really is. Interestingly, there really aren't many (or any?) instances of "Wolf Link cliff jumping" after "The Event" that cements Midna as one of the good guys.

But yes. I'm 100% behind Wolf Link/Midna combo character, or solo Imp Midna. Having her in her "true" form would be a massive "wtf" and spoiler to all the people who never beat TP. And, obviously, a great Final Smash would be the Fused Shadow! Mmmmm, giant shiny weapon pwnage ^^

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Geoffrey Taucer Enthusiast

Geoffrey Taucer

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But yes. I'm 100% behind Wolf Link/Midna combo character, or solo Imp Midna. Having her in her "true" form would be a massive "wtf" and spoiler to all the people who never beat TP. And, obviously, a great Final Smash would be the Fused Shadow! Mmmmm, giant shiny weapon pwnage ^^

Having Midna transform into her true form would be no more of a spoiler than having Zelda transform into Shiek.

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DuskyFerret Newbie

DuskyFerret

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Having Midna transform into her true form would be no more of a spoiler than having Zelda transform into Shiek.

Sorry, I gotta disagree with you on this one. For one, you have to consider the time gap between OoT and Melee. Seriously, it really is someone's own damn fault if they hadn't clocked or progressed a decent way through OoT before Melee came out. Whereas for people like me who are a bit slow in finishing TP, they shouldn't ruin a latter part of the story only after a year it's come out (Yeah it was delayed in parts of the world).

Secondly, I can't recall Zelda ever going "Hello..Check me out I'm really Shiek n stuff OMG" in OoT, whereas now I've been told that Midna will transform in the latter part of TP. So yea...full credit to Aniny for keeping his post spoiler free.

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Culturekoi Newbie

Culturekoi

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Gonna agree with Bigfoot and Geoffry on that. The game honestly doesn't take all that long to beat, if you've had it since it came out (or even relatively close thereafter) you should have beaten it. Besides that, it's absolutely amazing that even if you didn't beat it, the Midna thing was a new spoiler for you. Seriously, I beat it months and months ago and still saw a great big picture of the "true" Midna and was leik ok, what's this about? Just because you know she has something doesn't mean the whole deal is blown for you.

Besides that, it's Legend of Zelda. Why would you play for the story? It's about gameplay, the story is the same every time: "U r hero. U r save princess plz k thx."

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HalcyonSpirit Newbie

HalcyonSpirit

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The game honestly doesn't take all that long to beat, if you've had it since it came out (or even relatively close thereafter) you should have beaten it.

Right. However... there are people, like myself, that don't have a Wii or TP and have to rely on others to play it (re: borrow their system and game). Which is a bit of a problem if you both have a life... And then there's the people that are like me and got trapped in the cannon room because they are playing on a bugged disk and weren't aware of the problem. :-x

So yeah, you've got a point, but some of us haven't beaten it completely because of legitimate reasons and thus would be grateful for spoiler warnings...

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Aninymouse Newbie

Aninymouse

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Besides that, it's Legend of Zelda. Why would you play for the story? It's about gameplay, the story is the same every time: "U r hero. U r save princess plz k thx."

I rather like the story, actually. Wind Waker had such a stunning narrative, but you don’t have time to ponder such questions, as Link has just grabbed a Smash Ball.

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DuskyFerret Newbie

DuskyFerret

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Gonna agree with Bigfoot and Geoffry on that. The game honestly doesn't take all that long to beat, if you've had it since it came out (or even relatively close thereafter) you should have beaten it. Besides that, it's absolutely amazing that even if you didn't beat it, the Midna thing was a new spoiler for you. Seriously, I beat it months and months ago and still saw a great big picture of the "true" Midna and was leik ok, what's this about? Just because you know she has something doesn't mean the whole deal is blown for you.

Besides that, it's Legend of Zelda. Why would you play for the story? It's about gameplay, the story is the same every time: "U r hero. U r save princess plz k thx."

Yeah, well I guess some people have different playing habits. I really don't enjoy getting a game and seeing how quickly I can clock it. I prefer to play it...leave it for a while and then come back to fully enjoy the ending...but that's just me and if I have to pay for my playing habits then so be it.

But seriously dude, even reviews and stuff for SNES games on the net still have Spoiler warnings on them. Time really shouldn't play a factor. A spoiler is still a spoiler. But then again...if I really didn't want spoilers I wouldn't be looking on the Dojo to begin with :P

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friendlyHunter Newbie

friendlyHunter

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My signature is a spoiler for people who haven't played Metroid Prime 3 before :P

Fixed.

But in all seriousness, I think it's kind of silly to think that ANY Wii game is old enough to assume that everyone who plans on beating the game before things are spoiled for them has already beaten it. Confusingly long sentences aside, TP is not an old game. How would you feel if you picked up Super Paper Mario yesterday, and then some guy carelessly spoils the ending for you in the SUPER SMASH BROS. BRAWL THREAD??? But like DuskyFerret said, the game's age isn't really a factor. It's not hard: put the damn spoilers in white text, or just give some kind of warning.

Besides that, it's Legend of Zelda. Why would you play for the story? It's about gameplay, the story is the same every time: "U r hero. U r save princess plz k thx."

TP had some pretty bad gameplay though (or, rather, mediocre gameplay with sub-par combat), so I think the story was a pretty big highlight. I mean, if the game had no story to look forward to, it's likely I would've stopped playing before the end. But since the story sucked too, I'm thankful for the nice atmosphere and music, and crazy characters. Man, no wonder I didn't like that game much =/

Nonetheless, if Midna is a Brawl character, her Final Smash is a no-brainer:

Fused Shadow transform, of course

So, any guesses as to what King Dedede's Final Smash is? I'd bet there's flying involved... And yeah, his neutral-special move probably involves sucking players up.

Ooh, just thought of another question for the mighty and all-knowing Player of The Demo: Anything new or different about Yoshi's special moves? I found all of them (except B-down, and on one occasion B-neutral) to be particularly useless in Melee. Same story in Brawl, or is he good again?

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Aninymouse Newbie

Aninymouse

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Several of Yoshi's tilts, smashes and aerials were improved either in range (longer tail) or power, but his B moves haven't changed much. Of course, his B^ now kind of stalls him in the air and you can use it multiple times, but his smash B is quicker as well. Can't double jump cancel.

Off topic, but... honestly, you though Twilight Princess was a pile of suck? If I'm being perfectly honest with myself, I think I can see where TP didn't totally trump some past titles in some areas. However, even if it didn't end up being the be-all-and-end-all of Zelda games it was still really solid! The combat wasn't much different than any other 3D Zelda, so unless innovation was your main concern I don't see how that was a failure. And... the story sucked? "Suck" is a pretty strong word, I think. It wasn't a garbage story. Horribly cliche, sure, but WHAT ISN'T these days? Midna's character developement and personality are the strongest I've seen in a Zelda game yet, so I suppose if you didn't particularly like her character the story would seems to have no redeeming value.

Heh, love triangles make anything interesting.

Back on topic, I can't wait to see Pokemon Trainer in an actual fight! I'm also very interested in how they'll make Subspace Emissary work for PT, too.

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Koopaking1981 Newbie

Koopaking1981

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It's awesome how King Dedede got put in. Brawl got the new Kirby characters Meta Knight and Dedede most likely because Masahiro Sakurai, the game's director, also happens to be the creator of Kirby. I think it would be awesome if they put another completely weird character in, like Mr. Game & Watch. My vote goes to Diskun, the old mascot for the Famicom Disk System!

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HideousBeing Newbie

HideousBeing

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Right. However... there are people, like myself, that don't have a Wii or TP and have to rely on others to play it (re: borrow their system and game). Which is a bit of a problem if you both have a life... And then there's the people that are like me and got trapped in the cannon room because they are playing on a bugged disk and weren't aware of the problem. :-x

So yeah, you've got a point, but some of us haven't beaten it completely because of legitimate reasons and thus would be grateful f or spoiler warnings...

I had many games spoiled for me, but when TP approached, I tried my hardest to avoid spoilers. I found it was better to say that I didn't even own the game to my friends, because that discourages further questions that may spoil things, such as, "Are you past the part where... (insert spoiler)?"

I also avoided potentially spoiling internet sites in general. I stopped going here, because I knew that there would eventually be spoilers thrown on sigs, and spoilers brought up in closely related threads. Indeed, looking back, both happened.

A pity you could not be so insightful, mm? Really all it takes is common sense. If you don't want a title spoiled, be careful on the internet, or shun the internet completely.

Edit: And it really pisses me off when people say things like this:

if you both have a life...
Due to ancient stereotypes, when games were young and few played them, the idea that one who plays games often "does not have a life" is still a common myth. Nowadays gamers are more common, and gaming is more widely expected. Yet there are still people who cling to these dying ideas to justify any lack of skill in a game, or in this case, permitted play time. Do you really have less of a life if you play videogames even three hours a day? Why would you?

Consider any other hobby. Perhaps you skate three hours a day. Do you have any more "life" than he who games three hours a day? Or is this "life?" Who are you to judge? Define "having a life." In simpler terms than, "not playing videogames all day."

It's a dumb phrase. I can't stand it. My friend was over my house not long ago to be trained in the advanced techniques of ssbm. I was explaining powershielding to him, and how you must do it the frame before impact to correctly perform it. All the other advanced techniques I explained to him, I was able to do. I told him, "but I can't powershield. I'm still not good enough to do it whenever." He responds, "So, if you can do that powershielding thing, you like, don't have a life?" I laughed, and told him that if you could get another person to help you practice for 15 minutes every day for a month, you would be an excellent powershielder by the end of the month.

Seriously though, drop that stupid nonsense. You have no more a life than a gamer for doing whatever you do often everyday. I'll point out in the literal sense, that you live while you're doing anything, thus, who are having quite a "life" while you're playing videogames all day.

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