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djpretzel

OCR01532 - Seiken Densetsu 3 "At First Innocence"

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I def like this one. The emotion created from the detuned guitar fits perfectly with the emotion from the composition. I've been waiting for really chill ambient piece for awhile. This def fits the bill.

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yeah, well the detuned guitar fits from one perspective, but my ears don't like detuned notes, makes me shiver (from pain) .. sorry . detuning = offnotes .. my ears ..

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I think this was an excellent piece. The detuning was a perfect selection with the style and ambiance. It also shows your understanding of other tuning methods outside of the norm. Great work

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I think the tuning works wonderfully, but all of the other instruments wreak havoc on this piece. They sound like shit. The guitar work is nice and the general composition of the piece is a very pleasant listen, but I can't get over the terrible sound of the "flute" instrument and the "music box." Those really detracted from this otherwise great mix.

EDIT: I'm really sorry for being so insulting and rude, especially when you put work into making this. I should have offered helpful feedback rather than being such an ass.

Edited by oakthielbar
I was an asshole

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This is great. I'm digging the mix of Western melodies with more Asian themes. Almost feels like something I'd hear in a movie like Yojimbo. And the slight problems that some judges noted I feel only make the track sound more authentic to its intended theme/genre. I'm happy this got posted.

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The lack of tuning gives this a really unique sound, I think it not only fits the theme of innocence better but also meshes with some of the other instruments more effectively than a perfectly tuned guitar would. I really dig the overall sound/atmosphere, this is a keeper. The only part that bugs me personally is the ending, just kinda peters out.

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The track is full of a total air of competence that I think dispels any myth the imperfect tuning is careless.

I think even if it was I wouldn't care.

This remix sets an example to any would-be remixer that no amount of production and tuning can save a poorly composed and unchallenging remix.

The guitars remind me very much of 'The Microphones' (See : The Glow pt2).

And whichever judge it was said the time irregularity sounded awkward towards the end.

GOOD!

Formula is the death of music.

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I was a bit worried when I saw djp mention stuff being out of tune in the writeup, but I think it works surprisingly well.

It's not polished, but it's not supposed to be. Won't be everybody's cup of tea, but I love it.

Actually, my biggest complaint is with the whistle; it really would have benefitted from a bit more reverb or delay; anything to make it sound less dry would have been good.

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A loved the original and this songs pretty cool! Reminds me of the town theme in Diablo because of the tune of the guitar. THe off-tune business somehow works with me; might not with others, but I like it ^-^. I have to say get another tambourine sample though. It sliced right through the mellow atmosphere you created like a hot knife through butter. (Lmao, cliches, gotta love them to death.) I like different things, and this works. Congrats!

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Haha. I've disliked every zyko mix until this one. I even gave him a low score on one or two vgmix releases(in hindsight, I think it's a genre thing for me). This mix is smooth, light, and downright purdy. Nicely done. Next time, add even more chorus. :)

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Just because a judge votes NO, that doesn't mean he or she is "turning up their nose". That's ridiculous. For example, I voted NO. I thought it was a cool mix with some great ideas. I liked the guitar performance, the instrumentation, and especially the arrangement and the overall atmosphere. I just felt that the tuning detracted from the mix, and the pan flute/tambourine could have been tweaked a little bit, and that those things made it fall slightly below our production bar.

As far as I'm concerned, it's cool that it got posted. I don't think it was a mistake to put it up here. That's why we have a panel of multiple people, after all.

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Pomp and pretense? What?? There's like half the people here not liking the song, and many valid reasons given why those don't personally like it, so judges (of all people) being called that makes 0% sense at all. Ah, guess such a worthless comment is not worth getting riled up over after all, given its percent on the "makes-sense"-o-meter. Moving on.

I thought a few measures sounded good near the beginning when the melody was most prominent (I'm familiar with the original), but it sooned turned very very VERY weird sounding. I couldn't take it, and couldn't finish. I'll have to listen again later and edit this maybe; perhaps I'll get at least somewhat used to it and understand where the people who like it are coming from (and hear the rest of it). But first let me go listen to zyko's Legend of Lightning Larry mix randomly. Ah okay that's better :D

Okay I listened to the rest of it. Overall there lacks focus (except for the fact that it features an acoustic sound for the majority of it) and drags on for quite a long time. The original fits this style perfectly, but I think in order for it to be interesting at 4 minutes, more has to be done to it than chaotic sounds and repeating the original many times. It's mainly just more of an interesting song than something I'd listen to. Ending is the most interesting part.

I remember zyko's songs back on VGMix 1.0, and they were more of this kind of artistic style than anything recently he's done. Well, recently, except now, for this song, of course, comma.

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Haha. I've disliked every zyko mix until this one. I even gave him a low score on one or two vgmix releases(in hindsight, I think it's a genre thing for me). This mix is smooth, light, and downright purdy. Nicely done. Next time, add even more chorus. :)

that's what you said on the last half a dozen tracks, too :)

finally i know who was meta-bombing me. it was you!

================

thanks to everyone for their comments. glad you guys are feelin what i'm doin. there was quite a bit of drama leading up to the posting but i want to make one thing perfectly clear: i respect and honor the process or i would not be a part of it. if i criticize it, i am doing so to see it improve.

Insaintan - it isn't so much pomp and pretense as it is an incongruence with an unfamiliar style. i cannot expect everybody to hear a single stretch of music the same way that i hear it. this is the beauty of intepretation.

just doin my thing

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The guitar tuning issues really hit me hard the first couple of listens. Then I decided to space out a little, to do some work on the side while it ran in the background and not actively scrutinize each musical component. The song instantly became a lot better. Although the intonation still hits me at a weird angle from time to time, the reverb helps out stylistically and now I tend to interpret it as giving the song an East Asian flavor. Visual images come to mind of a crumbling civilization nestled away in the depths of a hidden forest.

Would I appreciate a remastered version with the guitars retuned? Sure. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy this piece any less than I do. Another awesome result, keep it up zyko.

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The detuned guitar is fine--it's the sloppy, grating pan flute that bothered me most. So many small yet constant timing issues amongst almost all elements. And the detuned instrumentation sometimes works, but sometimes just sounds...purposefully out of tune and exasperating.

It's one thing to deliberately aim for a lo-fi, off-the-cuff, detuned sound, but this mix almost seems to wander into dissonance and timing flubs obliviously. Sometimes it feels like you're in control, sometimes not. I can't tell if I'm listening to crafted awkwardness, or just error...and thinking too much about it dampens the enjoyment of the mix, which I think was meant to be visceral and raw.

There's a lot of potential in this one, I'm just surprised it wasn't tightened up before being accepted. Would love to hear a revision with at least the timing errors and transitions fixed. And please soften that poor choking flute. :S

My 2c.

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Just wanted to drop a layman's opinion into the bucket. I thought it was beautiful. Like the earlier poster mentioned the guitar reminded me of the diablo town music (which is a good thing). The whistle was a bit odd for me at first (sounds like the opening to 5 Days a Stranger), but after listening to it a few times I find I like it. Though as earlier mentioned, a bit of reverb may have been nice. Overall a fine piece of music that I will be keeping in my collection.

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i'm curious - what timing issues? you can't be seriously telling me that time is absolute to the point that you can tell me that the flute has bad timing

who invented years? months? days? hours? minutes? seconds? the only discernably consistent measure of time is our own heart and i doubt you know the pace of mine :)

this is why the community needs more zyko - some of y'all REALLY are in desperate need of some out-of-the-box.

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I thought this was a pretty nice arrangement. I would compare this to some earlier classic rock acoustic. People are saying that being a little off-tune, a little sloppy is so horrible? That's just not so. It's mostly a matter of taste to me. Music is emotive, it's not all about precision. I mean, look at people like Neil Young. Half of his songs sound "sloppy" as hell, yet he's heralded as one of the best guitarists/songwriters of the last century. Listen to his voice even. Or take a gander at the Grateful Dead or even Led Zeppelin somewhat, or the Band, etc. etc. etc... Point being, it's not always about being perfect in their music... Obviously there was skill involved in making this song, it didn't sound amateur to me, it wasn't perfect, but I don't think the way it was approached required it to be. Does the song have soul?

My biggest qualm about this song isn't at all anything being sloppy (well a couple of the celestia? notes did bother me), more that I think dynamic-wise, the guitar overpowers the other instruments a little too much (it's pretty much the same volume the entire time and I don't think it needed to be, some other elements feel a bit drowned out by it)... I also may have liked the guitar to have a slightly less poignant attack at times... But for the most part it was fine.

This is just my two cents, of course, I am at least happy it passed for what it is worth. Nice job zyko.

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Dude, I have no idea how the panflute works, but it does. It's a beautiful and deceptively simple piece which was, frankly, unexpected from the funky Zyko we all know and love.

Congrats!

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I too was reminded of Diablo's music for Tristram when I first started listening to this. And just as I have a fondness for that piece, despite having never played the game, I also find this remix to be an enjoyable one, despite having never played Seiken Densetsu 3. The instrument that sounds like panpipes (or perhaps more like a Native American flute—especially during the trills and pitch-bends) does have a bit too much of a MIDI-ish quality for my tastes, but other than that I don't have any major qualms with this. The piece has a lonely, almost fading, atmosphere to it. Nice work.

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