Sonic the Hedgehog's sad state

[The Coop]

Wtf?? Coop... You Bought Shadow?

Yep. $4.99 new for my XBox. Curiosity got to me, much like what happened with Turok Evolution (also $4.99 new). I wanted to see how it was, and since renting it actually cost more than it would to just buy it...

[Stargem]

Not to sound like a buzz kill, I highly doubt Sonic could convert into an RPG format at all. It would just further kill any sense of speed you have while playing it, unless they find some way to revolutionize the genre, and let's face it... with Sonic Team and SEGA in the states they've been, it isn't going to happen.

True, it wouldn't seem likely, but if they could allow someone else to attempt the idea with the license, it might work out. I don't think anyone thought Mario or Megaman could make the transition to an RPG-style format of gameplay initially, but they did manage it quite well. Concerning speed, I think that it would require the development team to make the terrain of each area designed around the concept, making the appropriate conversions like how it was done in Super Mario RPG. I certainly wouldn't expect it to be perfect in an initial attempt, but I think it can be done.

[KWarp]

I generally like Sonic games, particularly 2, 3&Knuckles, 3D Blast, Adventure, Heroes, and Rush. I've backed away from Shadow, Riders, and HD more for the reason that I don't like they company's direction rather than the games themselves. Sonic Adventure hasn't aged well, so I see little hope in future 3D Sonics with the same mechanics.

SatSR has me intrigued. SEGA finally has a novel idea down that seems as simplistic as the Genesis titles. I'm purchasing this title day one without question.

[Darth Lime]

Sonic Adventure 2: Battle for Gamecube is the saddest excuse for a Sonic game ever. The voice acting is horrible, graphics are ok, gameplay is choppy at times. Sonic used to be this awesome character. His games were so fast paced and it felt good from playing Super Mario. But now, they are horrible. Please, make a better Sonic.

Whoa. What did I write? I'm to out of it to know whats going on.

[Dexie]

I'm really hoping Secret Rings doesn't suck.

If it does, though, I say Sega lets Miyamoto show them show to make a Sonic game. XP

[TonitoX2]

You know The Coop I really had to take your word for it when you meant there was no excuse for such a crappy game engine. I mean.. I was just keeping it open that you know perhaps is nostalgia that's causing all of this but I decided to rent Sonic The Hedgehog for the 360... man. Oh man. I thought Gears of Wars was glitchy, too think Super Mario 64 was also a glitchy game. This game is straight up garbage @_@. The graphics are nice / the voice acting is alright but jesus christ the game runs like shit. If I had to compare it to SA1 or SA2, those 2 did a better job than this garbage. And the loading times! I thought that reviewer was joking and was maybe overly exaggerating based on the PS3 loading times, but for the love of god about 2 minutes of loading just to show one stupid animation and then another 4 minutes of loading? How in the hell did Sega let this one slide o_O?

[SlightlyOddGuy]

I honestly think unless the Wii Sonic turns out to be something spectacular, it may be time to let someone else have a go at the 3D part of the series. Or at the very least, bring in some fresh blood to help Sonic Team. Sometimes when you work on something for so long, you can't see what's potentially wrong with it until you get an outside perspective. And frankly, I'm wondering if Sonic Team can see how broken parts of the latest games are.

Actually, this is pretty much what's already happened. The man at the helm of SSR (Ogawa) has worked with the series before, but never in the leadership role he's had this time. Moreover, Iizuka, Naka and friends haven't touched the game. And it shows. If I'm not mistaken, even the actual staff making the game has more guys from elsewhere in Sonic Team as opposed to the usual bunch. They've said that there were effectively two different teams working on the game (one for the SP, one MP), and that's with the next gen title also being in full development at the same time. It isn't quite as drastic a move as outright licensing the series to another developer, but it's the closest thing you're going to see.

[The Coop]

Actually, this is pretty much what's already happened. The man at the helm of SSR (Ogawa) has worked with the series before, but never in the leadership role he's had this time. Moreover, Iizuka, Naka and friends haven't touched the game. And it shows. If I'm not mistaken, even the actual staff making the game has more guys from elsewhere in Sonic Team as opposed to the usual bunch. They've said that there were effectively two different teams working on the game (one for the SP, one MP), and that's with the next gen title also being in full development at the same time. It isn't quite as drastic a move as outright licensing the series to another developer, but it's the closest thing you're going to see.

Oy. So the PS3 and 360 games were handled by (in essence) "the other Sonic Team members"? I guess that explains the poor reviews (even Shadow the Hedgehog did better). But, should even the Wii game go bad, there is hope to be gained from the past...

- The Sonic Advance series, Sonic Battle and Sonic Rush were done by Dimps

- Sonic 1 for the Master System and Game Gear was done by Ancient (Yuzo Koshiro's company)

- Sonics 2, "Chaos" and "Triple Trouble" (Master System and Game Gear) were done by Aspect

- Sonic 3D Blast was done by Traveller's Tales.

Even if all those companies only co-developed those games, that's a lot of outside help that resulted in some very good 8/16/32bit titles when Sonic Team wasn't the one on the job. So even though it seems unnatural for someone other than Sonic Team to be making a Sonic game, if that's what it takes to make the 3D Sonic title people have been wanting (and being promised), then so be it.

[Broken]

So, is Jun Senoue still directing/ producing the music for these games? The Sonic Heroes OST was pretty boring if I remeber correctly, and SA1 and 2 were a mixed bag.

(I haven't played the past couple of new Sonics and don't have any inclination to do so anytime soon, so I can't comment on those.)

I just remember reading Jun Senoue's name in the credits for Soncic 3 a long time ago and thinking "hey, he made all those songs, cool."

[I-n-j-i-n]

I thought the music in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were really good for the most part. Even the cornball ones in Sonic the Hedgehog weren't too bad (In this worrllldddddddddd). The amusement park theme of Sonic Adventure 1 is permanently stuck in my head.

I think the reason why the recent Sonic games doesn't seem to have a direction is because Yuji Naka isn't making the games. It'd be like Miyamoto not handling a new Mario game or Aonuma not directing a Zelda game. If either of them leave their posts, their respective franchises could suffer too.

[SetzerGabbiani]

It was decent, but the game <h4>gave me a headache.</h4>

I dunno, I just really didn't like the game.

Church. I can't finish that game cause it makes me very disoriented... I can't tell where I am going in that game. sucktopia. I think the series started blowing right around Sonic Adventure.. It was decent, but they did not give anybody but Sonic the fun objectives. Finding emerald shards made me want to ejaculate on my dreamcast and set it on fire.

[OverCoat]

You know what Sonic needs? A full Michael Jackson soundtrack.

Fuck bad PR. Sonic 3 had some groovy tracks.

Also maybe they should kill off all the extra characters. Except Tails - we need to laugh at the horribly funny AI trying to follow us around and getting his ass kicked trying to keep up.

and change Eggman's name back to Dr. Robotnik.

and make a Sonic GBA or DS game using the oldschool sprites

and Sonic R 2

[Rellik]

Sonic Adventure 2: Battle for Gamecube is the saddest excuse for a Sonic game ever. The voice acting is horrible, graphics are ok, gameplay is choppy at times. Sonic used to be this awesome character. His games were so fast paced and it felt good from playing Super Mario. But now, they are horrible. Please, make a better Sonic.

Whoa. What did I write? I'm to out of it to know whats going on.

Actually, in my opinion, SA2 is a fantastic game. I'm not the only one that feels that way, but I'll explain anyway: basically, it's a lot of fun - vibrant levels, decent challenge, excellent replay value.

New Sonic will never be old Sonic - if you don't torture yourself trying to pretend Sonic Adventure 2 is a classic Sonic game with impeccable and loveable gameplay, music, and mood, you'll see that there's a lot of fun to be had, and a lot of vibe to be appreciated. I don't disagree with any of your specific criticisms (even something as fundamental to a game as the gameplay is obviously quite flawed in this case), but when it comes down to the actual playing experience, it's not that hard to call SA2 a great game.

[KyleJCrb]

So, is Jun Senoue still directing/ producing the music for these games? The Sonic Heroes OST was pretty boring if I remeber correctly, and SA1 and 2 were a mixed bag.

(I haven't played the past couple of new Sonics and don't have any inclination to do so anytime soon, so I can't comment on those.)

I just remember reading Jun Senoue's name in the credits for Soncic 3 a long time ago and thinking "hey, he made all those songs, cool."

No, Jun is not the music director for Sonic 2k6 or Secret Rings. His band Crush 40 did contribute covers of "All Hail Shadow" and "His World" for 2k6, though.

He only composed maybe one or two songs for Sonic 3 (I know he did the Act 2 Boss theme). It was his very first project for SEGA.

I think the reason why the recent Sonic games doesn't seem to have a direction is because Yuji Naka isn't making the games.

Actually, Naka is the one who originally took the Sonic series in the direction it's currently going in. Not that the games are getting any better without him, but he certainly did not help in the least and probably wouldn't be of any help now.

[NManiac]

The whole Sonic idea is broken anyway. I mean you just keep on running, seeing only a few pixels ahead of you, and then POW, you fall in a hole with lots of pointy stuff in it. The only thing that made me love the first Sonic on Genesis was the graphics on Emerald Hills. And same thing for Sonic Adventure, with the giant whale that follows you. That's about it really, otherwise you're just flying past scenery that you suppose is superb, it's just a shame that you can't have a proper look at it. And now, even the graphics aren't anything special.

[CE]

Sonic died the day Dr.Robotnik was renamed to Eggman.

[carra]

If it does, though, I say Sega lets Miyamoto show them show to make a Sonic game. XP

HIGHLY seconded.

Maybe the only one who can bring back Sonic? Would be ironic though.

[Murmeli Walan]

Sonic died the day Dr.Robotnik was renamed to Eggman.

So you're saying Sonic died the day the first Megadrive game was released in Japan?

[JoeFu]

Take Sonic out of the human world please... WTF WHY IS HE KISSING GIRLS?

[CE]

So you're saying Sonic died the day the first Megadrive game was released in Japan?

No, the day the intense japan-ism completely invaded sonic and gave it one of the shittiest storylines known to man. So what if he was Eggman in Japan? He was renamed when they tried to give Sonic a serious storyline other then the perfectly acceptable "HAY GUYZ ROBOTNIK IS BAD HE CAP DEM ANIMALS LETS SAVE DEM", but instead failed miserably. I mean look at Sonic Adventure 2, it's almost like it's ripped from one of the DBZ sagas.

[BabyfaceGlasses]

I think there is only one thing left that can save Sonic. And thats a Mario crossover. Why not?

[Smoke]

Actually, in my opinion, SA2 is a fantastic game. I'm not the only one that feels that way, but I'll explain anyway: basically, it's a lot of fun - vibrant levels, decent challenge, excellent replay value.

New Sonic will never be old Sonic - if you don't torture yourself trying to pretend Sonic Adventure 2 is a classic Sonic game with impeccable and loveable gameplay, music, and mood, you'll see that there's a lot of fun to be had, and a lot of vibe to be appreciated. I don't disagree with any of your specific criticisms (even something as fundamental to a game as the gameplay is obviously quite flawed in this case), but when it comes down to the actual playing experience, it's not that hard to call SA2 a great game.

I got Sonic Adventure 2 Battle along with my Gamecube at the European launch. Played the hell out of it, and enjoyed the hell out of it. For its time, it was a pretty good game with great graphics. However, going back to it now kinda hurts since the flaws stand out so much more. It just hasn't aged well.

[Darth Lime]

Sonic died the day Dr.Robotnik was renamed to Eggman.

QFE

Ten characters.

[Vyse the Three Eyes]

I'm just doing my best to try not to get hyped up about Secret Rings.

I mean, I want it, I'm gonna get it at launch, I desire so much that it turns out well, but the Sonic Heroes hype burn left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'm forcing myself to regulate how excited I get.

The fact that it's moving away from the people who destroyed the series in the first place gives me hope, though. And man, that full Japanese trailer... I got Sonic fanboy shivers, I tells ya.

I haven't had those in years.

Unless you count stomach wretchings as shivers.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Actually, Naka is the one who originally took the Sonic series in the direction it's currently going in. Not that the games are getting any better without him, but he certainly did not help in the least and probably wouldn't be of any help now.

I don't think the current direction is really the problem. It's the execution. I thought the cartoony style was obviously the way to go, but it was the gameplay nuances that kept the game down. If Yuji Naka stayed on board and refined his games, it could have started improving a lot by now. Then again, Sega as a whole doesn't really seem capable of making great new games anymore. Also the entire mechanic of Sonic platformers are a bit archaic by today's standards. You can only run and jump so much before it feels redundant. That's why other platformers like Ratchet and Clank has the heavily gun-oriented gameplay and Sly is based on a lot of stealth on top of the apparent platforms. Both are leagues better than any Sonic game since 2000.