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I'm at a point where I don't see myself remixing much in the future. It would probably only happen if I enjoyed a song in a new game so much that I felt compelled to do something with it, or perhaps if I came across an older game song where I thought I could do something creative enough with it to excite me. For now I intend to focus on my original material and perhaps take a step back from music for a break and some perspective. I still have a mentality that remixing is something cool. When I first found this site I thought "wow I never thought about this before, I wish I could do this some day!". Not all musicians can make remixes and not all remixers can make great remixes (and I suppose the opposite is true for originals). So to get to a point where your name gets our there for great remixes is a really great achievement I think, even if it surpasses the audience and respect for your original work. I think we all want our original music to be loved and enjoyed by more but it's tough - you have to get all the audience that you can. I've written music and albums inspired by games where I was more proud of that work than some of the remixes I had done for those games, but you just have to accept that a lot of people either just don't care or won't discover that music the way they discovered your remixes. That's also true for the many clones of popular video games, like there could be a great game that's very similar to Dark Souls but a majority of Souls players either don't want it or will never hear about it, because it didn't make the impact like Dark Souls did. Remixes/covers can be an awesome way to celebrate the original song and where it came from, sometimes that remix/cover even surpasses the original, that's kind of nuts to think about really. But at the heart of it remixing should be fun yknow? Unless you're tied to some project where you have to take a remix more seriously (like an official album or game). I have always seen remixing as a place to explore and train, by learning about the original music and using its foundations to test out different writing and technique. And the truth is I probably wouldn't even be writing music if it weren't for remixing.

Larry thinks it's anything that uses source less than 50% of the time in the arrangement. I kid, but it certainly is an interesting question. I remember ages ago where Deadmou5 accused someone else of "stealing their material" because the song in question used a similar chord progression to one of their songs ("Some Chords", I believe), and the community was pretty split on it. I was of the belief that chords are universal, but I was havin' people accuse me of not being a musician because of how wrong they thought I was. Oh boy. So yeah, there is a level of subjectivity and culture laid into that question. I'm personally of the opinion that there is nothing truly new and original in tonal music, so if the music transforms a theme or source even a little bit I consider it something new and interesting. However, that's coming from a musical nihilism of sorts - the belief that since nothing is original anymore, everything becomes interesting and worth listening to in it's own right, regardless of how small the variance. Hell, even different performances of the exact same piece can grant a keen listener a very different experience, as long as you don't hang yourself up on the originality of it too much. That certainly doesn't cover any legal definitions of when something becomes the arranger's own piece of copyrighted music, but as far as I'm concerned if you're putting your own spin on some music (changing genre, re-arranging the themes, etc.) that piece philosophically becomes your own.

These reasons may seem true for you personally, but I disagree strongly with both as generalizations, and they certainly aren't true for me. They're also both kinda-sorta saying the same thing, re: ownership and that being the primary sticking point, creatively speaking. My more-than-two-cents: I think of my mixes as my own AND as collaborations with the original composer's ideas. I don't think it has to be one or the other. I actually tend to think of ALL artistic creation as a collaboration of sorts, even the most personal works, so it all lays on a spectrum... not a Boolean. So this is a false dichotomy, to me at least. I've heard hundreds of arrangements that brought original ideas to the table, relative to the source in question; a musical work's status as an arrangement carries SOME obligation to reuse ideas, motifs, etc., but within that framework artists can be quite creative, as we've seen over two decades, and outside of that framework, making something original, artists can still be quite derivative. So again, the premise seems weird to me, too much hinged on some notion of personal ownership being the end-all be-all & offering a stamp of great meaning & significance. My answer is that I still do it, primarily because there are still plenty of melodies out there that I want to hear a certain way, that I can bring something to, and make something of worth that I enjoy and that others might enjoy as well.

In the grand scheme it doesn’t solve world hunger or bring peace or anything like that. Specifically for myself, in the grand scheme of my life, it brings fun and enjoyment and it’s a creative escape from life’s challenges. So for me, remixing and music are worth it, since it gives me what I want to get out of it. It could have been originals too, but right now that’s something that just doesn’t interest me. Remixing modern soundtracks is definitely possible, but also much harder. They tend to be more ambient and cinematic and less melodic/catchy (and probably less nostalgic too I guess) and you have to work harder to give it your own spin. I’ve remixed some PS2 and PS3 game music, even from orchestral to orchestral, and it’s definitely possible to do it and still make it your own. Anyhoo, I guess my main answer to the question is still “I remix because I enjoy it and because I just feel like it”.

==TURBODRIFT= POLL IS OPEN FOR RAINBOW ROAD THEME REMIX ! ==INTRODUCTION== TURBODRIFT is a Mario Kart ReMix Album project, consisting of 4 sets of 4 ReMixes, separated by 4 voice tracks introducing each set. Which puts us to 20 tracks. Each set is considered like a 'cup', there is 4 of them : "Mushroom Cup", "Shell Cup", "Banana Cup" and "Star Cup". ==CREATING THE ALBUM== ♫♪ This album is under some restrictions that MUST be respected so that we can live all together in peace. ♫♪ First, There is some rules regarding each cup: There is only one ReMix of any "Mario Circuit" VGM from any MK game available and it MUST be on the "Mushroom Cup" set. There is only one ReMix of any "Bowser Castle" VGM from any MK game available and it MUST be the last track on the "Banana Cup" set. There is only one ReMix of any "Rainbow Road" VGM from any MK game available and it MUST be the last track on the "Star Cup" set. However, the theme will be publicly voted and imposed to the ReMixer who choose this track. (Vote has ended on October 10th 2018 - Super Mario Kart Rainbow Road has been voted.) Each track must remix a different circuit theme, and not a different version. (To prevent SMK madness from the sets) Ex: If Donut Plains 1 is picked, there cannot be any Donut Plains 2 ReMix in the album. Location on sets will be decided between ReMixers. (Optional but prefered) Each Set should contain 4 different remixes, from drastically different circuits. This is not mandatory but it ads to the album's dynamic. You can pick any track from any MK game you want as long as it fits the rules here, it's first come first serve, make sure to write down your choice on this thread so that everybody can see it. ==RECRUITMENT== This album needs a total of 16 ReMixers, a voice actor and an illustrator. 10 Places remaining for the remixers. ReMixers : Awaiting position : --- Mushroom Cup: [Mario Kart 8 - Sunshine Airport] StarPhoenix [] --- [ xxx - Mario Circuit] Collab' [] --- Shell Cup : [ Mario Kart 64 - Koopa Troopa Island ] Ridiculously Garrett [ Mario Kart 64 - Sherbet Land ] Ronald Poe [] --- [] --- Banana Cup : [Super Mario Kart - Donut Plains] Smittenden [] --- [] --- [Super Mario Kart - Bowser Castle] TheChargingRhino Star Cup : [] --- [] --- [] --- [Super Mario Kart - Rainbow Road] Gario Voice Actor : --- Illustrator : --- The rule is: First come, First serve, so be fast before there is no more room. I'll be checking, but I'll be noting in the order of the responses in this thread. No PM, no mail or something, just reply that you're in and what circuit you're going to ReMix. If you want to do voice acting, send me a PM, I'll give you some instructions to see if you fit the role, and we'll see what we do. If you reply just after another member with the same track, you are in, but you'll be asked to change your source. If you don't choose a source, you'll not be considered as participating, so don't forget to choose a source. ==DEADLINE== FINAL DEADLINE IS FOR SATURDAY APRIL 20th 2019 - 12:59 PM CEST [ 05:59 PM EST] Inscriptions deadline is for Thursday January 31st 2019 - 12:59 PM CEST [ 05:59 PM EST] Submission deadline is for Thursday February 28th 2019 - 12:59 PM CEST [ 05:59 PM EST] Deadlines were extended, due to a lack of participants.

I'm in the "no" camp, myself. Reasons are twofold: 1. I'd simply rather spend the time and energy on something of my own. Now, if I hear an existing song, and I like it...I just leave it at that. 2. A remix can never really be your own. It's like fanart or cosplay: You're ultimately (where OCR is concerned) just giving free promotion to what is, at the end of the day, a consumer product. Regarding that, I remember about five years ago, one of the gecko or frog users said that he found the problem with remixes was that no one actually gave a damn about your original stuff by comparison, and it's haunted me ever since. I suspect most people listening (outside of OCR) are listening more because they like and have nostalgia for that game rather than the composer. It would be an interesting survey to see how many actually even know the composer's name. I also doubt that most, unless they're regular listeners to OCR specifically, have any particular loyalty to any remixer. Not that I regret anything, of course, but that's my reasoning. Yes, I am an old man, and yes — I yell at clouds.

mmm, if I can expand on your point without derailing too much - When I started remixing, my thought process was "people who hear my remixes will be interested in what I do" - which generally isn't the case in my experience. Yes, you get people who follow you and what you do, but in general, people will just stick to where they want to be. People who find me on youtube stay on youtube, people on OCR stay on OCR, people on New Retro Wave stay there etc etc. The mistake I made was assuming that people were interested in ME, but they're just interested in whatever site I use to promote myself. Suddenly, instead of having a bunch of "WillRock fans" i've got OC Remix fans, New Retro Wave fans, Ubiktune Fans, who just happen to know about my stuff, but not enough to REALLY look into me and what else I do. As a result, it feels like i've got a selection of split up mini-fanbases who like specific things I do in specific places, and then there's the 1 in 100 who actually follow me. I actually remember James Landino discussing how to become popular and he said something similar to this: Stay in one place, and become known for something very specific and corner that area. Don't split everything up and get disjointed groups of people listening to your stuff who don't really know or care about you. I put a LOT of effort into my OCR rep so as a result, i'm much more known for my remixes, and as a result, my originals suffer because I can not promote them here, not in the way I would like, and my original stuff is a bit spread out due to issues getting my stuff released where I want. I would say its not silly to try and figure out what it is you want to do because that opens you up to different fanbases and if you don't force your stuff in their face, they won't look your way. You have to be as visible as you can be and if you try and spread out too much, you won't be visible anywhere

I write for games full time, but I still see a lot to be gained from arranging. So yes! I still remix when I have the time. I'll try to be concise for a change: You get to make a piece of music you enjoy listening to (and perhaps learn what exactly it is you enjoy in a piece of music) You get to study that piece's structure, harmony, etc. and apply what you learn to your own originals (though I find straight transcription to be even more useful for learning) You get to practice strengthening your weak points without the pressure of writing an amazing original melody/chord progression/bassline/drum groove/whatever, since it's already done You get to learn how to reuse pieces of a track to improve your arrangement game (mostly for soundtracks or theme-related albums, but it's been extremely useful for me in a work setting) I think in terms of potential for musical growth, there's a LOT to be said about arranging, and I think the inspiration and forward momentum someone can get from an existing tune/game they love is also an important part of the remixing game. For what it's worth, I don't find the "is it mine?" debate to be very useful. Something I consider MUCH more important when I make a remix (or any piece of music) is "do I like listening to it?" EDIT: I also think looking at building an audience in terms of remixing vs. originals is silly. Those who will be interested in your originals will be interested regardless, and those who won't, won't - it's not a matter of "splitting your audience". If a remix was what got the ears there to listen to your other music in the first place, it can only help

Not to sound patronizing, but duh (starting a sentence with that can carry more connotations than you think) I'm sure a lot of people don't look at is they hold creative ownership over what they create. Almost always, when discussing remixes or arrangements, they are always remixes OF <game> by <composer> remixed/arranged by <arranger>. Tribute would be a more accurate term. That said, the creative work that happens to it really does reflect on the person remixing. Listen to Aquatic Ambience, now pick 50 remixes of it (as good as the track is, I think it has been done to death), and tell me how many of them sound like the same person doing the same thing over and over. Many will sound different, although the source material is the same. Some may sound very similar (there are a few EDM versions that sound too close) but for the most part, it will be 50 different interpretations of that track, influenced by 50 different peoples' musical experiences. Generally, yes, the work is not yours and remains property of the original composer, or in a lot of cases, the company that owns the game property (a lot of composers forfeit rights as part of contract). But then again, what is fan media but not just a community that loves to commit copyright infringement? Tales of Symphonia fanart of varying degrees of disturbing? Copyright infringement. That beautiful picture of Link, Bowser, Samus, and the digdug guy playing leapfrog while Sonic and crew watch in amazement? Copyright infringement. A lot of people do these things and understand this. But they're doing it because of a love of the source material. This gets into an area of understanding copyright law that a lot of people just don't get. Legally you have no protection and you are in fact committing a misdemeanor/felony depending on the extent of infringement, but for the most part, a lot of companies look the other way until it catches their attention. OCR is a testament to that, and has been for quite a few years. The instant OCR gets a strike and is taken down completely will be a dark day for copyright enforcement. I don't think most people who do remixes are claiming complete creative ownership, and I also don't think people are going into the mindset of "change one note and it's yours." Instead, it is what it is, a fan tribute to a form of media many people hold dear, leaving the copyright legality at the door under the good faith that rights holders will continue to look the other way, as a lot of them do. In my experience, attempting to carve out a market for video game marching band arrangements (both halftime shows and stand tunes), Nintendo will, with one or so exception that comes only on February 33 every 10000 years, decline all rights requests for first party property. This doesn't count mechanical licenses, which is how most legal game covers happen. Still working on that. Going to work through indie companies first.

I'm on FL Studio too, so it's quite convenient. I can help you in mastering the track, you'll just have to send me the .flp file. I'll send you one back and you'll tell me if it's okay to you or not. I think Discord would be good, but since we aren't on the same time system we'd never be all together online (I'm taking account of the fact that people have things to do outside of OCR) But why not try? Rock/Synth is quite a perfect fit for BC, and I'll be quite dynamic for the album, so I'm rootin' for you ^^

Just landed a new job, also very recently had a kid, so over the last 2 years i've been out of the picture pretty much entirely. That being said, over the last 2 or 3 months, I've started working on a Mario Odyssey Remix Album. You can find a preview of the first track here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DOGSue11MIU8zOX4nNVpEDMj9sdouTt3 It's the first thing I've written in at least a few years.

Well, you, apparently, since you seem to identify with it here...

Who you calling "vintage"?!

Ha! That's what I was thinking when I started seeing some "vintage" names pop up!

I don't remix anymore because I draw cats. I'm sure I have a room in hell waiting for me. In all seriousness, I agree more or less with the OP regarding remixes. I haven't made one since 2004 (wow has it been that long?). However, I did end up getting my degree in music and met a lot of great people in the community because of it. I actually found a place to live in Boston because of Vig (Jesse) when I went to school which certainly changed my life forever. YAY OCR!

This topic further adds evidence to my theory that OCR folks from across the epochs and such really do keep visiting OCR, they just keep lurking for whatever reason until a topic like this shows up.

I'm a fan of your music. :3 Yeah, I don't remix much anymore (I tried to force myself to do so in a compo, which was a crushing failure), though I consider this a temporary affliction. The combination of work ramping up and my computer literally aging itself out of the ability to run my music programs (as in it doesn't have the capacity to play my music back anymore, outside of some really basic shit) has put a real damper on my progress. When I finish taking care of some essential purchases for my new apartment, though, I do plan on fixing this issue. You hear that, Prophetik? I'mma be coming for you and your computer building skills... soonish.

I'm not currently, but only due to my current living situation. As soon as I live in a place where I can get my studio set up again, I will DEFINITELY be remixing again.

I am still remixing! I can't stop. I actually probably should, but I can't!

I answered this on the facebook page, but now I have my laptop, but that laptop doesn't have access to facebook at work, and I have an hour before school starts, so I'll reword it here. OCR is my video game music home. Growing up it was this place where these great musicians were, and although I have done video game arrangements as far back as 2007, it wasn't until 2015 that I registered for an account on the forums (DarkFlameWolf recruited me for an album from Facebook), and it wasn't until 2016 that I had a remix posted (a big band arrangement of the Metroid Title Theme). I was at the end of my degrees, had just graduated in music composition, education, and performance. It was the first video game music community I was a part of, and has been one of the biggest sources of personal musical growth. I have learned about audio production from the community. I have had 3 remixes posted, I have 2 in the queue right now, and probably I will continue to submit occasionally. But I am slowing down. I am wanting to branch out and build my own career as a composer/performer, but in the mean time, I'm just going to grow in any way possible. Posting remixes to OCR serves two main purposes: 1. A testing ground for new techniques, things I've studied recently in music theory, and production techniques I've learned. 2. An outlet for said things. I'm not a very popular remixer, generally I get some comments on what is posted for about a month after it is posted, then not much after that. But I really don't care about that. I have a place I can point to and say, my work is there. I find a musician I want to play with, and they ask, "Can I listen to your stuff?" and I can point to what has been posted on OCR (and more limited to Materia Collective now) and say, this is what I do. I do still remix, although not as much. My time is spent right now on an original album project. In the future, I want to do things that aren't normally done. I want to make a full, Mahler style video game symphony, or a Mozart concerto style thing, really trying to just nail those styles. A lot of orchestral video game arrangements are in the cinematic/modern orchestral style, which is great, and I love those. But there is a lack of legit classical style things, and I want to contribute to that.

As much as it's been a "yes" in my mind, it's been a pretty big "no" in practice. The reason being, I'm pretty broken right now in a lot of ways that I don't want to go into in this thread.

Damn you're old, and you're probably younger than me. I don't remix anymore but that's because I've been burnt out for years. Moving a few times, getting married, having to take care of my house and yard and stuff like that has all worked against my desire to sit down and create music. That said I actually don't care much anymore about whether I make original music or remixes, to me it's the enjoyment of creating something, and game remixing works just fine in that regard for me.

I do enjoy making remixes, but I already like to play songs on the piano (or guitar these days) that I have stuck in my head. In my opinion, making a remix of that song is just the next step in that process. That being said, the vast majority of remixes I make will never see the light or day or are never finished. But if I feel good about one, I do enjoy releasing it to be able to share my nostalgia. I like working on original music as well, but for me that scratches an entirely different itch.

Yeh, cuz I get to try new stuff without thinking to hard. and it keeps me sharp. When you remix, you tap into two different target audience (or one audience that gets split into two)... one for the original songs audience, and one for your remix(es). Not that it is not the case that neither audience cant be fans of your original music, its just that they came primarily for a remix. Remixes can build an audience for your original music if your sound resonates to something good through all your works, but you gotta build an audience for your original music separately as well (in my (flexible) opinion). I noticed that if you have a good original base, they will appreciate any remix you have, as long as the sound you have resonates to the sound they became of fan of (if you understand what I mean).

Maybe this is the wrong reason but my primary reason for remixing was always to get an audience for my music. I succeeded, got a small following on Youtube, came to OCR and used it to improve my craft. I've been doing this for 10 years, I've got about... 80 Remixes under my belt? Probably more. It could be approaching the 3 digit mark. I've got 50 remixes on OCR, thats a nice round number imo. I don't have any incentive to remix anything atm. I'm doing my original work, I wanna become more known for that in the long term and my remixes still eclipse what I do musically. Never say never but remixing is certainly not something on my to do list and probably won't ever be again. I mean... I say that now and one day i'll probably throw an album together of links awakening remixes you know? That said, right now,I have no interest. Give me a few years, maybe i'll get back into it

I have been more focused on original works the last year or so myself but I wont shy away from the odd remix if the mood strikes. I do find that a remix is often a good idea when someone is in a creative slump, as it gives you at least something to start with that you can try take your own liberties with. I was really into the competitions here previously which did very much help improve my general composing/production skills. That eventually translated to me working on more original work. I wasn't the "frog user" who mentioned that no one cares about original work compared to remixes, but it is a sentiment I've seen many people talk about, and I do think it has some merit. Its only natural though, a remix takes existing source material that does have an existing fan base, as others have echoed here. The same as fan art / cosplay as you suggested. People are just more inclined to notice something that's tied to an existing IP. I posted a remix of Hydrocity from Sonic 3 on my Soundcloud some time last year, didn't hype it up or really post it around anywhere, but now its my most played track (over 16,000 plays as of now). Yet those kind of numbers are a bit of a pipe dream for anything original I happen to post. Again, its not unusual, and as much as I could try to build a name by doing solely remixes I do find original work to be more rewarding on a personal level so even if the level of exposure isn't really there I ultimately am happy with the things I produce. And if I weren't happy doing music (or any form of art) I don't think I could continue doing it. It also doesn't help that my more recent endeavors have been ciptune-inspired which is itself a niche genre, but that's my own problem

This is also a good point. I recall arguing back in the day that retro game soundtracks were more commonly remixed than even PS2 onward because stuff like the NES were just basic synth patches which could be idiomatically transposed to many acoustic ensembles or dance music. Keep in mind that original compositions aren't just for aspiring professionals.

More or less like a few people above. Not trying to become pro but it's a fun hobby and I like to challenge myself sometimes.

I'm more or less in the same camp as Jorito. I do remixes mainly because they provide learning opportunities and make for very concrete projects. I love to give my favorite tracks from the olden days a sound update so I can enjoy listening to them even more. I always want to add a bit of a personal touch to remixes so they kind of feel like my own. For the moment I am also my own primary audience, but seeing how many other people love video-game music I figured I could just as well share my productions with them. I'm not in the pursuit of a career in music. I think the opening post did provide some good food for thought. Do I just want fanboys to drool over my remixes and disregard me and my original music? Am I just there to feed their nostalgia? Are the people who grew up with the same games and soundtracks that I grew up with still out there, looking for related remixes? Or are we dealing with a new, much younger audience who's first shot at a Final Fantasy game was FF13? How remixable are modern soundtracks anyway, what with them being already possibly fully orchestrated? In other words: is remixing worth your time and effort in the grand scheme of things? I suppose remixing could be someone's main selling point, but if you also want to be known for your original stuff, that's going to be tricky. When I was still on deviantArt I really wanted people to see and appreciate my original drawings and digital works. Problem was, I had built my audience around nature photography, so no one really cared about the things I really cared about... I think you'll find yourself in a similar situation when you do remixing and original works. PS: I also wrote a massive rant about the problem with consumerist audience, the distance there always is between composer and audience, the question of why you do the things you do to begin with and about TV talent shows and how we're all looking for that ego boost which basically looks like this: “Nice work!” , “Thanks! I'm glad you liked it. (feels loved)”. I was going to post the rant, but on second thought, I better not right now. :D *uses the Force to hit the Submit button*

I still have plans to remix singles - my reason for not doing nearly as much as I could have is I've largely said I wouldn't do any more until the SD3 project got released so it didn't look like I was not committed to the project (yeah, hindsight) and then by the time it got to be where I felt like that no longer applied, I got entangled in a brand new long-lasting web of indie game work that keeps me super busy to date. Thankfully, my experience and skill and tools have REALLY improved in that time period and I'm just busting at the seams to do some new remix work, but now I don't have the time and opportunities I would like. Ever hear a composer complain about having too much paying work? Well, I don't want to do THAT lest you sumbitches respond wanting to take my jobs, but the bottom line is its 5:20AM, I'm still up working and yes, I'd love to still be doing remixes of other game music right now.

All interesting points. Regarding this one specifically, an entire thread could discuss this. Recent studies show that mental health issues plague musicians disproportionately. It's generally because of financial instability, and the job being tied to every aspect of your life. It's also because being unable to use your skillset for a living is massively depressing (among the main reasons why the robot revolution is bad) and devotion to music can be responsible for many low points in your life.

For me, it’s a yes, for a few reasons with quite some overlap in between: 1) It’s fun. I enjoy messing around with music, exploring different genres, experimenting with and learning new things and putting an existing piece of music in a new light. I see remixing as a good tool to develop my skills without putting a lot of pressure on myself. 2) It gives me a concrete goal. I am too lazy to think about a concept, a particular type of sound to think of as my own or to spend a lot of time on creating music nobody cares about. Making a remix is a manageable project with a clear goal that I can just pick up somewhere in between, finish and release it and move on to the next time I feel like it. All things I wouldn’t have when doing originals - and I’m too busy (probably lazy too) to change that. 3) It gives me an audience. There’s plenty of people in the VGM community who seem to enjoy what I do. Even though I myself am my main audience, it’s an extra incentive. Growing your own audience is hard and not something I am really interested in at this time to attempt. I have no ambition to be a professional musician, so to me, remixing is just a hobby, a good and easy excuse to mess around with music without all the pressure, competition, mental health issues that seem to come with being a pro.

So, I figured this out. Thanks, Google! iTunes created a new series of tags called work and movement, those tags are created for classical music, mostly. But iTunes tags all songs automatically because why not. That's what's breaking the album listing on iOS. Just removing those tags fix the issue. More instructions in the following link: https://discussions.apple.com/message/31521131