Gollgagh Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Seriously though, these forums need a sarcasm smiley or something so people don't take a joke you say seriously. I like this one better though: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanthos Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 To some extent, there's less point reviewing a posted remix than a remix in the WIP forums. Reviewing the former may or may not help the artist improve, but given that their mix got posted in the first place, they're obviously hitting some level of quality, plus the judges review often still points out rough edges that could use more polish but aren't worth rejecting the song over. Reviews at that point often become ideas to make the song better/different (which often means "more to my personal taste"), instead of being suggestions that genuinely improve the person's music. The WIP forums, on the other hand, are much more useful to review because they allow someone to provide direct input into an in-progress track, many of which need significant work before they'd be accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaki-LEGEND.sys Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Ok let's try this out. Hey guys! More Terra's Theme remixes please!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 It's very rare to go to a song's review page and see someone saying they don't like that particular track. Why does everyone seem only give positive reviews? It can't be because all these songs are 100 A+ amazing. Hate to say it, but everything has a flaw, even these mixes. If you have an actual opinion, you should say it. If an artist sees that you didn't like something they did, that may help them to create a song that improves on that weakpoint. But people do do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palpable Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 The panel definitely isn't afraid to review songs.no no no no no no no yes no no no no no no no no no no etc Yeah I was waiting for someone to mention this. When I'm reviewing songs outside of judge decisions, I usually just try to highlight the things I liked. Occasionally I'll mention something I thought could have been improved. I got nothing against constructive negative comments, but I tend to fall more in line with djp's thinking in his write-ups: if the song has passed and we want people to hear it, let's highlight the positives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Author Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 The system in place around here seems to favour good music, which in turn favours good reviews. Now if some of my stuff got posted, you would see negative reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I know how good it is to get a nice word here or there, or some constructive (I'll say again, constructive) criticism. It shows you how many people really do listen to your track. Reviewing other tracks helps spread the love. I believe to understand. To some extent, there's less point reviewing a posted remix than a remix in the WIP forums. Reviewing the former may or may not help the artist improve, but given that their mix got posted in the first place, they're obviously hitting some level of quality, plus the judges review often still points out rough edges that could use more polish but aren't worth rejecting the song over. Reviews at that point often become ideas to make the song better/different (which often means "more to my personal taste"), instead of being suggestions that genuinely improve the person's music. I still think mixers can receive additional feedback from reviewers which were not pointed by the judges yet. It may not change the song, but it will help the artists toward a more polished effort in their future submissions. That if the person gets open for it. And I agree about the WIP forum being actually the closest way to help users in their songs. However, the review forum can not be discarded for such possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anosou Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 The system in place around here seems to favour good music, which in turn favours good reviews. Truth. Also, constructive criticism is great but most negative reviews I see around here are mostly just crapping on a song. Constructive criticism together with what you liked (if any) is very very welcome imo. Keep in mind though, the really early remixes were submitted with a considerably lower bar and many of these remixers aren't even here, the review threads might've died too. Going there and start dropping negative reviews seems a bit.. unnecessary. Not saying you shouldn't do that but it doesn't really make a difference in any way for the most part Reviews for active remixers and recent remixes are always relevant though. Go wild! Yeah I was waiting for someone to mention this. When I'm reviewing songs outside of judge decisions, I usually just try to highlight the things I liked. Occasionally I'll mention something I thought could have been improved. I got nothing against constructive negative comments, but I tend to fall more in line with djp's thinking in his write-ups: if the song has passed and we want people to hear it, let's highlight the positives. I'm the same when it comes to reviews since I've mostly already laid down my vote on the track. I must say I'm the other way around in decisions though. I tend to point out what I didn't think was good so the remixer gets something out of the judges decision EVEN if the track passes so the remixer can continue to improve his craft. It will probably be more relevant for the remixer to hear it from a judge too.. no offense! I think that's very important so people doesn't get stuck doing the same thing and just spitting out remixes because they have working recipe.. you know? Ah well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olarin Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Actually guys, I think the OP has a very good point here. I'm inspired to go through the archives and write a bunch of negative reviews specifically pointing out why other people's remixes are worse than mine. Otherwise some people might miss out on the full realization of exactly how great I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanthos Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I still think mixers can receive additional feedback from reviewers which were not pointed by the judges yet. It may not change the song, but it will help the artists toward a more polished effort in their future submissions. That if the person gets open for it.And I agree about the WIP forum being actually the closest way to help users in their songs. However, the review forum can not be discarded for such possibility. Absolutely; I'm not arguing that either forum is useless for presenting suggestions to remixers. It's more that if I have a limited amount of time to respond to something, I'd respond in the place where my words will probably have the most impact. Not to mention that many remixers of earlier mixes may not frequent the site or the forums anymore and may not ever read a review I give them, while WIP-forum posters are specifically asking for feedback. Both scenarios are good; one scenario is probably more useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 words Because we do it for you. STOP TRYING TO UNDERMINE THE JUDGES > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephfire Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 To some extent, there's less point reviewing a posted remix than a remix in the WIP forums. Reviewing the former may or may not help the artist improve, but given that their mix got posted in the first place, they're obviously hitting some level of quality, plus the judges review often still points out rough edges that could use more polish but aren't worth rejecting the song over. Reviews at that point often become ideas to make the song better/different (which often means "more to my personal taste"), instead of being suggestions that genuinely improve the person's music.The WIP forums, on the other hand, are much more useful to review because they allow someone to provide direct input into an in-progress track, many of which need significant work before they'd be accepted. This is actually a really good point. Not that feedback in the review forum isn't appreciated, but it's much more helpful in the WIP stage of things. And time spent helping out in the WIP forum will give you some practice reviewing and train your ear so when you do provide criticism in the review forum, you can offer it constructively and accurately. Excellent work, Kanthos. Ten points to Gryffindor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 It's very rare to go to a song's review page and see someone saying they don't like that particular track. Why does everyone seem only give positive reviews? It can't be because all these songs are 100 A+ amazing. Hate to say it, but everything has a flaw, even these mixes. If you have an actual opinion, you should say it. If an artist sees that you didn't like something they did, that may help them to create a song that improves on that weakpoint. Part of it is that no one objects to vague praise - you can say something sounds awesome and no one demands further detail. Criticism, however, is really only helpful to the artist when it's more specific. I do wish more folks had the time, even when they like a track overall, to work in some specific criticisms that would potentially help the artists; there's a lot of that on the WIP forums but it could extend to the actual reviews more as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 This is actually a really good point. Not that feedback in the review forum isn't appreciated, but it's much more helpful in the WIP stage of things. And time spent helping out in the WIP forum will give you some practice reviewing and train your ear so when you do provide criticism in the review forum, you can offer it constructively and accurately.Excellent work, Kanthos. Ten points to Gryffindor. I don't remember what the exact quote is, but Duke Ellington criticized music critics, saying that they concentrate too much on what ought to have been done, rather than what was actually done. It's better to get your crits in there before the piece is done. Hit the WIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumUltimA Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I don't remember what the exact quote is, but Duke Ellington criticized music critics, saying that they concentrate too much on what ought to have been done, rather than what was actually done.It's better to get your crits in there before the piece is done. Hit the WIP. yeah, I was actually gonna say that it makes more sense to give critical reviews in the wip stages than after the final product is not only, submitted, but accepted. It takes a lot of work to get a remix "good enough" to submit here in the first place, so criticism is most productive while in that stage--as opposed to after you've done it. Of course, that's not to say that one can't learn from a review of a final product, given that they do plan on remixing again I toally like citicism, as long as it's warranted. Not like, "This sucks becaus I hate this type of music," for examply. I don't even consider that to be criticism... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Wolf Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 ^^^ I bet that's the first time Drum's ever been told his ANYTHING was too tall.^^^ Seriously though, I don't review songs as much as I should, partly because I'm always busy and partly because I don't have the technical musical skills to really be constructive. I can tell someone that it sounded good, or this part was great, and this part sounded muddy, but I can't get too technical. Furthermore, the judges usually point out everything and more than I was going to say in their decision threads, so why repeat myself when greater minds have already gone there for me? I think lots and lots of people here are like that. We listen, and we love the music, but we aren't really in a position of enough knowledge to offer decently constructiv criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaki-LEGEND.sys Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Constructive praise can be as necessary as constructive criticism. And conversely, nobody has to take their time to tell you why they thought your song sucked, just like nobody has to tell you why your song was great. The only difference is that one satisfies your ego more than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverCoat Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 yeah, i only really review if a remix has really GRABBED me. Otherwise I don't bother. I'll grab u <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadofsky Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 It's very rare to go to a song's review page and see someone saying they don't like that particular track. Why does everyone seem only give positive reviews? It can't be because all these songs are 100 A+ amazing. Hate to say it, but everything has a flaw, even these mixes. If you have an actual opinion, you should say it. If an artist sees that you didn't like something they did, that may help them to create a song that improves on that weakpoint. Most of the reviewers do have an opinion on a track. And as I'm sure most have replied here, a song is reviewed by a PANEL of judges, and each one puts their vote on whether to allow the song to be placed on the site, or to deny it. Usually when one gets a rejected song they'll get a reason, either it goes against the rulings on songs (no constant looping of the song, no ripping audio from films, and as far as I know, no taking sounds off the game itself, though I could be mistaken), or because of quality. There's been remix albums I didn't like, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate all the hard work that everyone puts into their songs, no matter what their skill level in music or what hardware they use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 ^^^ I bet that's the first time Drum's ever been told his ANYTHING was too tall.^^^Seriously though, I don't review songs as much as I should, partly because I'm always busy and partly because I don't have the technical musical skills to really be constructive. I can tell someone that it sounded good, or this part was great, and this part sounded muddy, but I can't get too technical. Don't let that stop you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhsu Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Because we do it for you. STOP TRYING TO UNDERMINE THE JUDGES > Haha, I think it'd be more accurate to say that Larry does it for them. The rest of the judges just say "Well Larry pretty much covered it." (No but seriously, I'd love to see some stats on how often Larry's been the dissenting minority on a decision.) Personally I review only when an arrangement is really good or really bad, so middle of the road stuff tends to get left out. I'm guessing other people do the same, if the number of reviews on my tracks are any indication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anosou Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Haha, I think it'd be more accurate to say that Larry does it for them. The rest of the judges just say "Well Larry pretty much covered it." That's because Larry pretty much covered it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 It's interesting how some agree about the importance of reviews or wip feedback but don't actually provide much of either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhiJayy Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Part of it is that no one objects to vague praise - you can say something sounds awesome and no one demands further detail. Criticism, however, is really only helpful to the artist when it's more specific. I do wish more folks had the time, even when they like a track overall, to work in some specific criticisms that would potentially help the artists; there's a lot of that on the WIP forums but it could extend to the actual reviews more as well. yeah....specific criticism is crucial and very important to the artist. If someone says this sucks....or I hate this. At least give a reason for why you hate it. The artist could possibly improve the mix. Anyways from what I've noticed so far, I'd say most of the people here, including the judges, give good if not excellent specific criticism. I said most. Mooost! Now if some of my stuff got posted, you would see negative reviews. If you make it past the judges, I don't think you'll be receiving a whole ton of negative reviews. You'll never know unless you submit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJT Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 No but seriously, I'd love to see some stats on how often Larry's been the dissenting minority on a decision. I'm not gonna do the research for you, but I remember it happening often enough when I was on the panel. There you go. Anecdotal evidence ftw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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