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djpretzel

OCR01333 - Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time "Prayer"

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whoa, I like this mix. It's good and your remixing skills must be too, to garner a rare MaGi_TekK vote of approval. That oh eh stuff does get a bit irritating when you loop the mix though. I think I'll use it to piss people off when I'm arguing with them. I'll be like, "yeah well go Oh Eh yourself."

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If I shut my eyes, I can still see those stinkin' spiders.

This is excellent.

The Roots have a very inventive approach to their hi-hop music in that they use rapper BlackThought's vocals as just another instrument in the mix. It creates a highly groove-oriented type of music.

In this case, the same kind of thing is going on. By singing in Japanese, Jill Goldin creates an ambient kind of atmosphere that becomes another layer in the mix. I don't think the focus is as much on her voice as it is the mood that is created by the piece. That's the focus, and in that, it works. I could have been more dynamic in that middle section, sure. But I don't think the piece is affected too badly by the lack of dynamics.

Very nice work.

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If you guys really want to hear her AMAZING voice, go check out "Amor Mio, Caro Bene," a remix of the opera theme from Final Fantasy 6 over at VGmix. While the arrangement didn't turn out to be OC-worthy, the voice in that song is absolutely incredible.

While this particular remix didn't floor me like her previous vocal performance, it shows me that she has the skills to make a song on her own, which all but guarantees that she's going to be a legend in this community if she keeps submitting stuff. You're saying that she can sing in more than three languages? Unbelievable. Helen Trevillion, you now have a rival. I eagerly await your next submission Ms. Goldin.

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Ever go to a drugstore or museum, and they have those little listening booth set ups with the variety of different cds that you can sample with a push of a button? This reminds me of what I might here when I push the "natures sounds" button.

It doesnt really excite me at all. It seems to try something different with the song structure, but instead of hitting a new peak in excellence, it ends up staying level throughout.

I wouldnt mind listening to this if I wanted to get some rest, but if I wanted to enjoy a piece and get into it, I would listen to something with more guts.

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Crap
Ugh. Next time keep your ignorance to yourself.

I enjoy the mix, probably 'cause I don't know the original source material.

But, as a singer myself, and listening to someone who's obviously got more training than I do, I'm very, very, very surprised you didn't re-record 3:15-3:40. The concept is good, but you go offkey a few times. The only reason it stands out so much is because you're very solid for the rest of the piece.

Solid, but I would suggest a closer attention to detail for the next one.

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I like the sort of dry, chorus marimba echoed but I think the "Oh-eh" part sounds terrible!

It does get a little screwed up around 3:40, but she's imitating the synth in the game. And ridiculously well. If you can drag your mind bag to 1998, it sounds almostly precisely as the effect in the forest temple. I'm not trying to claim that it is instantly enjoyable, but I think it is somewhat of a musical accomplishment.

I agree though that the "Oh-eh" vocalized part in the middle before 3:45 was a bit off. The disenance didn't seem too fit and the vocals seemed a bit too overpowering at that point.

Except that was precisly done at one point in the source. It could have been better with a re-record, but this is not an issue with arrangement. The phrase in the original is the closest thing in the original to a "climax" . For such an important aspect of the orginal, I would have rather seen it leveraged more, not less.

Blah.

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I remember this same person asking if someone was able to help her with lyrics in the forums *mainly because how the thread was alligned....I believe it read "Need japanese translating ass..." heh*. Evilhead stepped up and helped her, which I think was nice *even though she already said thanks in the mix submission*

Anyhow, the music of this peace is great. The music flows perfectly.......the singing....thats another thing though. The vocals sound more of a background rather than the dominant part of the song. It needs to be a bit more noticable for it to be recognized the way that they should be. Other then that, I have no complaints what so ever. Good mix!

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I call shenanigans on this. There's no way that isn't a professional vocalist. :D

I suspect that pixietricks may be getting some requests from our other remixers to do vocals for future projects.

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I like the sort of dry, chorus marimba echoed but I think the "Oh-eh" part sounds terrible!

It does get a little screwed up around 3:40, but she's imitating the synth in the game. And ridiculously well. If you can drag your mind bag to 1998, it sounds almostly precisely as the effect in the forest temple.

I think "almostly" [sic] is the key word here. In music, "almost" isn't enough. A quarter of a semi-tone is all it takes to turn consonance into dissonance. Or I guess in this case, pleasant dissonance into unpleasant dissonance.

The marimba was also in the original track, along with the "oh-eh"s. In fact, I believe those are the only two elements that distinguish this as a Zelda64 "arrangement" and even then they are reproduced virtually verbatim.

Like several others, I found the vocals slightly gratuitous, however pleasant they were to listen to. However, I feel this song would be more at home in an "originals" section on her site, considering the new lyrics and composition were obviously and heavily in the majority of the piece. I believe djp direct-posted this for a reason, as he knew not everyone would share his perspective. And that's entirely within his rights and power. I trust his judgment enough to believe that "omg bewbs!" was not the deciding factor.

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I suspect that pixietricks may be getting some requests from our other remixers to do vocals for future projects.

Understatement of the year. I agree, this is some good quality stuff... the recording quality of the vocals is very high as is the talent.

Patty Schmitt, host of the CBC radio program Brave New Waves uses a word to describe music that I think this song falls into the category of: touchy. The sounds don't just reach your ears and create an emotive response... they sound as though they actually touch something with in your ear physically.

Nice work. Can I join your fanclub?

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It's worth the listen, but I wouldn't listen to it again.

While the idea is interesting, it might as well not have been a remix, and she could easily have cut out the whole background and just called it her own song.

That is to say, it's less an arrangement than a reinterpretation, which, clearyl isn't a problem according to djp.

Anyway, personally, I really like the background hoohaas and such. Especially the filtered lo-fi oohs and such you can just barely hear.

The main vocals on the other hand seemed a bit like...what it's like to watch someone do interpretive dance/singing to some stupid christian RnB song while doing American Sign Language.

...and since you probably don't know what that's like, It's as though she's just singing what someone else wrote out for her, without knowing how to pronounce the words. I mean, it's not enough to know what sound the syllables make, there's also an inflection or a way of saying the sound that's just as important. Kinda like when japanese people say an english word with a silent E on the end, and they go 'Euh.' Amusing...

er, that said, It didn't really warrant another listen, simply because I lacked interest, and possibly also because my dumbass roommate has been playing Coheed and Cambria all day, and I just want to shove an icepick into my ear.

P.S. I want her to sing for me.

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In music, "almost" isn't enough. A quarter of a semi-tone is all it takes to turn consonance into dissonance. Or I guess in this case, pleasant dissonance into unpleasant dissonance.

When I said "almost" I meant how well she imitated the synth, not how close to the tone.

I'll be the first to tell you that I don't have the musical ear the differentiate a quater of a semi-tone. The dissonance was in the original, and I don't think that was being acknoweldge. If it still is off considering that, then that is a perfectly legitimate strike against the mix.

The marimba was also in the original track, along with the "oh-eh"s. In fact, I believe those are the only two elements that distinguish this as a Zelda64 "arrangement" and even then they are reproduced virtually verbatim.

Well except for how the chords found at the very beginning in the song (and are subtly repeated during the mix) are an integral part of the original.

All three of these aspects (the "oh-ehs", the marimba, and the introductory chords) are incorpoated into the new material as well as could ever be expected. Listen to how this chords that I mentioned are then transformed into the beepy synth (which I said before isn't the best choice in the world for this mix).

If this is still a reinterpretation rather than an arrangement, there is no way to arrange this song.

and give me a break about "almosty"... I wrote that 2:30 in the morning.

I almost pre-emptively apologize for butchering any musical terms.

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Thanks for the comments, everybody! ^_^

I just wanted to take a moment to clear up the whole "out of tune" oh-eh thing. I hate to sound like a diva :oops:, but those are the correct pitches. If you listen to the source material (where the climax is) and compare my recording, you'll see. Admittedly it's not a pretty sound. I thought about that when I was recording, but decided to stick to the source; such piercing dissonance must have been written for a reason.

As you guys have noticed, it's a pretty laid back track. I caught the New Age wave when I was growing up, so many of those artists (Ayman, Enya, Solas, Yanni, Vollenwieder) have influenced my style. It's not for everyone, but I really dig the mystical, soaring quality of New Age, and I always thought the Forest Temple theme embodied that. So yeah, I wouldn't describe it as "nature sounds," to quote Artificial_Al, but I can definitely see where you get that impression. They tend to group all the World Music, nature sounds, and New Age in one big "hippie" section! :wink:

P.S.

whoa, I like this mix. It's good and your remixing skills must be too, to garner a rare MaGi_TekK vote of approval. That oh eh stuff does get a bit irritating when you loop the mix though. I think I'll use it to piss people off when I'm arguing with them. I'll be like, "yeah well go Oh Eh yourself."

Hahaha, yessss!

-Jill

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Japanese lyrics.....I swear, if it's Japanese lyrics for the sake of Japanese lyrics :evil: ....

Well, I must say, the vocalist is quite talented. Let there be no doubt in anyone's mind - the vocalist is talented. But the lyrics themselves....eh, not sure it's my cup of tea. Maybe if it were more of a background effect, it would fit better.

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Just to let you guys know, Japanese words are often mistpronounced in songs. I don't know why you guys are so anal about the pronunciation. I have over 50gb of jpop, jfunk, jrock, and jrap on my computer, and all of them mispronounce words a lot of the time. Her voice actually reminds me of Utada Hikaru, a lot. Some of the words seem forced, but I think she did an excellent job singing those words. It sounds like a japanese singer to me.

This mix is incredibly creative. Layering a melody of a completely different mood and feel on top of what the original song was is amazing. And the transitions are incredibly smooth. The "oh-eh" that people are bitching about is actually really impressive. It's been a while since I played OoT (about 6 months) so I didn't really notice the difference until my second or third listen, when I realized that wasn't from the game itself.

I don't feel that there should be a climax in this song, it's a very mellow song. It sounds almost like an American Indian song, except for the synths and the lyrics. But the way it's sung and the overall mood of the song definitely seems like it could be a tribal dance worshipping a god (or 3 goddesses, in this case), which it is. Very nice in execution.

And there is a perfectly fine reason for singing in Japanese. It gives it an ethnic feel, and sort of seperates it from a lot of us, since most of us do not speak Japanese (I speak very little, a lot of my friends speak fluently and are native born Japanese people, so I hear correct pronunciation a lot). Another reason she could have sung it in Japanese was to pay tribute to the people who actually made the game. As much as some people might want to believe it, The Legend of Zelda series is a Japanese series owned by a Japanese company. It gets translated so the Japanese illiterate in the Americas and Europe can enjoy these wonderful games. Quit trying to tear this mix apart and stop being rude.

All of you people bitching about the mix that are just bashing it should think of giving constructive criticism instead of "I don't like it," or "Japanese lyrics suck if you're not a native speaker," etc. That's what these review threads are for.

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I don't feel that there should be a climax in this song, it's a very mellow song. It sounds almost like an American Indian song, except for the synths and the lyrics. But the way it's sung and the overall mood of the song definitely seems like it could be a tribal dance worshipping a god (or 3 goddesses, in this case), which it is.

Mmm...these are American Indian tribal dance songs. I think you might be stretching the comparison a bit. ;)

Sounds more like something that might fit in an anime, or perhaps a Zelda vocal collection album. Maybe that's part of the reason djp took such a liking to it.

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First off, no reason to complain about the use of japanese lyrics for the sake of japanese lyrics. Hell, I've been studying the language for several years now, and know enough that most people are annoyed only when people over use stupid phrases they picked up watching nothing but anime. These phrases, which are not used every day like they are in anime, get heavilly overused by non speakers. Anyway, that aside, I think Japanese fits as it IS a remix of a Japanese composer's song. As for mispronunciation of Japanese words, yeah, it's common, but far less so in more serious stuff. Someone compared this to Utada Hikaru (I totally agree), and her language is much cleaner than say Gackt or Miyavi. Slurred up lyrics would just sound out of place in this song.

As for the song itself, I don't know if I can say anything bad about it. While most people I know seemed to be annoyed by the forest temple theme, it's always been one of my favorites, especially the echoy oh-eh sounds. I think you did a really nice job in replicating that effect. Nice and calming like the original. I'm looking forward to seeing more work from you, and seeing you doing vocals for some others. 'd imagine you might make a nice fit with Jeremy Robson, Nigel Simmons, or maybe even Zwitra. Keep up the good work.

*Edit*

Yeah, agreed, native american comparisons are a bit much. I'd be more likely to argue Enya does Polynesia or something :P

-Karrde-

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Hm... Dhsu, you're right... What was I thinking of... It still feels like it has an American Indian feel to it... I'm just weird... Maybe instead of tribal dances, I'm thinking of songs?

But yeah, this reminds me a lot of Utada Hikaru, especially her singing for Sakura Drops. The songs are completely different, but the tone and quality of voices are very similar.

Again, good job! :D

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Gharde = mind reader. Exactly my thoughts about the relation. Before I even read any of the posts it did really remind me of certain aspects of Sakura Drops.

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I for one found this song absolutely wonderful! While I don't know the first thing about the techical parts of music, I do know good stuff when I hear it, and this is some very good stuff.

A job well done, pixietricks. Your voice is very beautiful. I hope you plan to try more OoT songs in the future! ^_^

Oh, and all you people about the "Oh-eh" stuff, CHILL. >_< She's wanting to stay with the song and I thought she did an awesome in doing so. And as far as the lyrics in Japanese, I'm with Garde on it. In fact, I felt that it was a very respectful move to have the lyrics in Japanese than English anyway.

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You know... I think I found the reason why I related it to American Indian songs...

If any of you are familiar with Enigma, and the song "Return to Innocence." The singer in the background. I dunno why, but this song sort of reminds me of some part of that song. I'm weird, I know. But there's just some quality to this song that reminds me of that singer in the background of that song...

Maybe it's just me...

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Thanks for the comments, everybody! ^_^

I just wanted to take a moment to clear up the whole "out of tune" oh-eh thing. I hate to sound like a diva :oops:, but those are the correct pitches. If you listen to the source material (where the climax is) and compare my recording, you'll see. Admittedly it's not a pretty sound. I thought about that when I was recording, but decided to stick to the source; such piercing dissonance must have been written for a reason.

Given that it is a remix, a certain amount of leeway is granted. For the purpose of the enjoyability of listening, wouldn't it be appropriate to "correct" the off-key part of the source material that is detrimental to the remix? At least it is my opinion that it is more important to make a remix sound good than to stay really close to the original material.

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Given that it is a remix, a certain amount of leeway is granted. For the purpose of the enjoyability of listening, wouldn't it be appropriate to "correct" the off-key part of the source material that is detrimental to the remix? At least it is my opinion that it is more important to make a remix sound good than to stay really close to the original material.

That's certainly a valid question. But I think my decision not to change it is justifiable. I wanted to contrast the more spooky, ethereal parts with an uplifting melody...a prayer arising from darkness. Hence the scary breath stuff and thumping in the beginning. If I had changed the source material for the mix, I don't think it would have been as powerful.

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Given that it is a remix, a certain amount of leeway is granted. For the purpose of the enjoyability of listening, wouldn't it be appropriate to "correct" the off-key part of the source material that is detrimental to the remix? At least it is my opinion that it is more important to make a remix sound good than to stay really close to the original material.

That's certainly a valid question. But I think my decision not to change it is justifiable. I wanted to contrast the more spooky, ethereal parts with an uplifting melody...a prayer arising from darkness. Hence the scary breath stuff and thumping in the beginning. If I had changed the source material for the mix, I don't think it would have been as powerful.

Yes, I'm going to have to agree here. Dissonance, tension, and release are key parts to just about any kind of music from jazz to punk rock. A homogenious soundscape quickly gets boring, and the parts as sung definitely serve a purpose and were obviously intentional.

And I'll also defend her pronunciation. As a few other people mentioned a lot of singers "mispronounce" Japanese in their songs. The reason being Japanese is for the most part a quite monotonic language without much vartiation in volume or pitch. In order to lend Japanese to song, a lot of singers take some liberties with the language and use the sylabry in a more liberal way. Japanese hip-hop is a great example of this. I sometimes find myself cringing at the English accents of some Japanese rappers. They sound like 1st or 2nd year American Japanese language students (no offense guys!). But the reason for this is that they are imitating the rhythm, accents, and flow of American rappers, and distort the language according accordingly. As someone who is fluent in Japanese and speaks it all day every day, I have to say I was impressed at how well Jill pulled this off despite her limited experience with the language. Great job!

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