OCR02313 - Super Mario RPG "Big Bad Koopa Dubstep"

[djpretzel]

What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix.

[WillRock]

Can't say i'm digging this. Dubstep for me is a limited style as it is, and while some of it has merit when people really do something creative, this doesn't cut the mustard for me. As it is, this is very generic, the wobble bass gimmick is used quite prominently here, like so much more dubstep, and those drums sound so generic and cheap it hurts. The synths generally seem rather cheap sounding to me, and the arrangement isn't so inspired... for a first mix this is ok, but dubstep is way overground now and I think its time that we heard something different. I feel kinda nasty for picking on this mix, and i'd like to have it known that I mean no disrespect to the mixer of this song. Its just Dubstep is the in thing right now and if you want to stick out from the crowd with dubstep, you really gotta come up with something special.

Dubstep fans will be sure to dig this, but for me... I've heard this before, too many times.

Sorry

Edited October 21, 2011 by WillRock

[Emunator]

Well, I'll say that I do like how this one changes up the groove frequently and doesn't get too repetitive. The arrangement here is solid and well-adapted. The breakdown sections are really cool and offer a nice counterpoint.

However, I don't feel like this really has enough nuance or detail to really hold up to muster as a dubstep track. Perhaps this is just a matter of this track being produced back when dubstep was still a budding genre, but the drums and bass are very generic-sounding and don't really pack much of a punch. You definitely need to do some searching for better-quality drum samples with a bit more grit to 'em to set them apart from every other electronica track out there.

My suggestion, if you're planning on making more remixes/songs in this genre, is to come up with ways to use automation on your bass than simply modulating the LFO. Dubstep as a genre has gotten to the point where simply wobbling the bassline is a dime-a-dozen trick. Think outside the box a bit more with how you mangle and twist your sounds to sync up with the rest of the song.

I know I'm being harsh here but I see a lot of potential in the arrangement and the way the artist adapted the source, and I'd like to see more artists who are attempting the genre push it to the next level with their sounds and modulation, instead of relying on crutches that have become played out and predictable by this point in time.

[Xyless]

The song is very solid...except for the dubstep parts. And I like some dubstep, so it's not like I'm trashing on dubstep. But it's just thrown in, and whenever it's in there, it drowns out the rest of the music. It might've worked near the end if he turned down the volume of the wub, but it felt a little offkey during the wubs as well.

Like Emunator recommended, if you're going to go with this style, learn how to use that automation a ton better. Dubstep (in particular wobbling the bass) is incredibly generic at base value, not to mention kind of ugly.

If you want to examine some dubstep mixing that, in my opinion, does a good job combining dubstep with not dubstep, check out some of the things DJ Alex S has done. He's been a surprise favorite of mine lately, as he is able to throw in the wobble in a way that is very non-confrontational, which adds a ton to the accessibility of it (before it gets too overwhelming for most people to stand).

(and yes, most of his songs relate to ponies. But guess what: that's why it's a perfect example...he found a timbre of vocals that could compete with the low harsh frequencies)

[SuperiorX]

Hmmm, I'm not really sure how I feel about this song. I like the arrangement and it seems well thought out overall, but some parts just seem to clash too much. The dubstep wobble feels like it goes on waaaaaaaaaay too long in the beginning and the siren-like sound effects in the middle of the song just feel out of place. I do like some dubstep, so I'm not just hating on dubstep, but it just feels like this could have been polished up quite a bit. I'm honestly kind of surprised this was a direct post, I bet there could have been some great improvements made based on judge feedback. DJP must have been diggin' the dirty dubstep bass at the time .

I'm not trying to detract from the mixer's debut, so congrats on the post. I'm sure those crazy kids will love it.

[PROTO·DOME]

Dubstep is a strangely attractive girl who you wouldn't exactly date long term or, god forbid, bring home to meet your parents, but you totally would and it would totally hit the spot. Unfortunately this chick, whilst pretty dirty and sporting a wonderfully aggressive personality to match, just has, to break the analogy I had going, criminally weak drums.

Anyway, top stuff on the mixpost dude, looking forward to seeing what you come out with.

Edited October 22, 2011 by PROTO·DOME
I wanted to add in the word aggressive. I was going to add in domineering somewhere but I think I'm getting a bit overexcited

[Radiowar]

it seems with all the hype around dubstep lately that there is a lot of misconception as to what the music has to offer. i'd argue that there is more subtlety (not to mention variety) to the genre than people give it credit for. not saying that this is the case with this mix, which seems to suffer from the remixer's lack of experience more than anything, but it probably doesnt help.

what i find most disappointing about this mix is how unimaginative it is. when you look at a lot of this kind of high-energy, abrasive dubstep, (PrototypeRaptor does it particularly well, to use a familiar example) the power doesnt actually come from how loud the drums are, or how many different LFOs you can stick on a bass, it comes from the use of contrast: loud and soft, fast and slow, dense and sparse, etc.

right off the bat this track is in wubwub mode, immediately giving up any sense of a drop - what should be the most powerful tool at your disposal. nevermind the rhythmic simplicity, or the fairly dry, generic sounds. the track has already showed its hand, and despite the attempt to switch things up with the 4 on the floor breakdown leading into another dubstep section, it's too little too late.

i know it's unfair to compare a newcomer's work to that of somebody like PrototypeRaptor, but the fact that this track and Nullification both bypassed the judges panel suggests that the two are of similar if not equal quality, when it just isn't the case. i also realize ocr's primary concern is the music's relation to the source material rather than it's function within a particular genre or style, and on a purely conceptual, arrangement level, this track works. but it seems to me that the issues with this track are not to do with some abstract notion of genre, but fundamental musical ones which, in any other context, would almost certainly have been questioned.

[SuperiorX]

Dubstep is a strangely attractive girl who you wouldn't exactly date long term or, god forbid, bring home to meet your parents, but you totally would and it would totally hit the spot. Unfortunately this chick, whilst pretty dirty and sporting a wonderfully aggressive personality to match, just has, to break the analogy I had going, criminally weak drums.

LMAO best analogy ever.

[Brandon Strader]

Dubstep has been done at OCR and done really well. Here's an example: http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02226/

I think the above is a good example of a polished dubstep song. I agree with a lot of the crits stated in this thread. I think the youtube comments are a little harsh and it saddens me to see that, but apparently the unbiased masses who listen on youtube are very, very picky...

The drums are quite weak and low in the mix, yet they also sound like fairly default sounds. I think I've heard that reverse crash sound in FL Studio, so the drums as a whole seem vanilla. Combined with the straight-forward wobble-bass powered arrangement, it doesn't seem very strong or have the kind of attention to detail that PrototypeRaptor's dubstep did, or dubstep in general. It's usually a lot more intricately automated than this, and the production is usually much thicker all around (not just with a focus on the wobble bass).

Having said all that, this is a great debut mix that shows a lot of potential, and I hope Teagan keeps at it. Take some of the criticisms to heard and improve with your next mix, and blow people away.

[Nobbynob Littlun]

I like dubstep well enough, but meh. Just... meh. Sorry

I'd like to emphasize what Radiowar said about "the drop." Lead with a clean sound, and then when the WUBWUBWUB drops, it has more impact. For example, "Strung Out" by Bar 9 starts crispy clean, light and airy, with a very sweet violin part. Then about a minute in, WAAAAABWUPWUPWUP.

Or in Nullification here on OCR, where he drops the "Hey... listen." And then drops us back onto the bass. It's these kinds of jarring shifts, skillfully wrought, that make dubstep interesting rather than noisy.

[Flexstyle]

That's it. I'm taking this as a challenge to make some actual quality dubstep for OCR. Besides PR's track, what else has there been? (I know something most of you don't in regards to some project tracks, which are brilliant, but those don't count yet.)

[AngelCityOutlaw]

First off, I'm not a dubstep fan by any stretch of the imagination. So.....anyway

This actually confuses and slightly annoys me, because OCR supposedly has this standard which it strongly enforces and contributes greatly to the site's success. Scroll through the workshop forum however, and you will find much greater material than this. Much of which will be subbed, hit the panel, and get NO'd.

I'm aware it says "evaluated by djpretzel" and what he says goes, but his write-up doesn't really provide any details as to why this made it. This arrangement hasn't exactly been getting 5 star reviews thus far and there's no point in me echoing things already said.

Why though? Why is something like "Afterburner & Bayonetta" still on the "to be posted" list when I first saw it in the workshop forums months ago? That song got a lot of praise and is truly a great piece, yet something like this dubstep mix gets posted before it?

I'm not trying to discourage the remixer from making music, so don't get me wrong on that! I just honestly don't see what made this mix pass.

To each his/her own though.

Edited October 22, 2011 by AngelCityOutlaw

[Dark Vagabond]

The whole 'dubstyle' fad that's caught fire with every would be filth-monger seems astoundingly... shallow... to me.

And it also seems stranger for ocremix with this concept of quality and originality would just slide them on through.

I'll admit that PrototypeRaptor's 'Nullification' was of amazing quality. I will delightedly admit as well that the whole track was Zelda before Dubstep.

This track though, it feels like OCR circa 2002 not in the nastolgic hidden gem sort of way, but more of the standards have risen since then way.

And that was the short ramblings of a longtime lurker.

[Giga Bowser]

Yeeeeesssssssss Its been a long time since there was a mario rpg remix on OC Thnx very much, I loved it ^^

[djpretzel]

- Had the panel approved this themselves, I wouldn't have overridden them, and I would have been fine posting it.

- It seems offhand like this is getting more scrutiny/criticism BECAUSE it's dubstep, and that another genre (like dance, for example), wouldn't have solicited the same sorts of comments - my two cents.

- I enjoyed the mix; I agree it's not a prime example of everything dubstep can be when dressed up to perfection, but I thought it was fun nonetheless.

- We more or less agree that this mix should not have bypassed the panel and that it should have gotten some feedback from the judges.

[WillRock]

I think the response to this mix shows us that Dubstep isn't really a style you can just make a generic mix for without some form of backlash. Something tells me this had to happen but its a real shame it had to happen on the first post of a newly crowned OCRemixer, who probably is still trying to perfect his style, and is probably going to take these criticisms to heart when he reads the response.

Honestly, I'm not really a fan of dubstep. But if you play this to the dubstep crowd, they would probably dig this, and I am sure there are plenty of people who will love this mix.

For the record, I think that this was waiting to happen - Dubstep is a fairly limited style of music compared to some others (many same gimmicky ideas that the style relies on + tempo and instrumental similarities some other styles are more lenient with) and the fact its so overground means that the fans will have heard something like this before, and the haters will just hate. This just happened to be the mix that people made an example of.

Lastly, a quick message for Teagan Kelk - Don't be discouraged by the response here. Keep on submitting because you'll only get better as time goes on, and we'll love to hear how you progress as an artist.

[Gario]

Hmm... The complaints are valid, but there's also some good in this track, as well (if we look past the generic drums and mixing issues).

The dub isn't all that bad. If you're not a fan then you're not a fan (strangely enough I'm not), but that's just the nature of the beast, here.

The arrangement is actually very interesting and playful when it picks up (around the middle); it actually can be quite fun to listen to. The synth dives over the dubbed bass is actually really cool. The return of the theme after that section is also pretty neat with the vibes.

It's not my place to judge whether or not this should be frontpaged or not (and unless you are DjP or a judge then it's not your place, either - and even in the latter case that right can be overridden). It's on the front page, so enjoy this track for what it is and have fun with it, even if the quality is a little less than we've expected up here. Or not, that's your prerogative.

[Benjamin Briggs]

my main complaint is not with the fact that it's dubstep, or even that it's another generic "wobble ocremix" that have been flooding the WIP boards as of late. the arrangement is solid, the sounds are clear and bright, and the wobble is pretty creative at points

my problem lies with the drums. not the drum patterns, but the dryness and lack of volume. they sound completely neglected.

my advice would be to learn drum compression techniques, and even more importantly drum EQ settings. dubstep snares almost always have a large mid-to-low end punch, for example. there is a specific "thickness" (not to mention reverb) that makes a simple dubstep drum track perfectly accentuate the rest of the style, and this remix is distinctly lacking it.

I don't HATE this remix or anything. I was just really surprised that those drums didn't raise any red flags, and wanted to make some appropriate suggestions

[Crulex]

This ReMix took me quite a few listens before I could form a solid opinion. So let me preface this by saying that I'm not overly fond of Dubstep (don't hate it, just not my favorite sub-genre of electronica) and Mario RPG is one of my favorite games (and it has some of the best songs). So with my biases even, let's see here....I'm only against the drums and a few minor bits (like the whistle from 1:42 to 2:00). But I totally dig this track. Honestly, it's weird, kinda messed up in a good way, and really interesting to listen to. It has plenty of variation, the source tune is clearly represented, doesn't take forever to get to different sections and fans of Dubstep will love this (well, most will. Can't speak for everyone, of course). So yeah, I like it, and I gotta agree with some of the others. Don't let any negative reviews get you down cause you have lots of potential. Nice debut.

[Skinner3D]

I have to say regardless of the music, it is pretty impressive that it has generated this many replies and with so many of them being in depth.

I have heard the term dubstep, but honestly I don't really know what it means. For me personally this song is going to be really fun to Audiosurf with the sound up higher than normal.

I also have never heard the source music, so from a completely unknowledgable point of view I think this is fun to listen to at least once.

[jedigamer]

Eh its pretty well produced considering its dubstep. Hard to class in in the same sentence as mario rpg

Edited October 23, 2011 by jedigamer

[docnano]

As far as dubstep goes, I actually like this quite a bit. There are a variety of sections with different styles; it's not a wub-wub/boom-crash-fest throughout, so it actually holds my interest, unlike most stuff in the genre. And I do hear the source throughout most of the track.

[Damashii!!]

whaaaat? i guess i'm the only one that listened to the first few seconds and immediately clicked download.

been jamming to this and black panther's latest mix simply for the awesome basslines! long live the phat bass lines

[soapbox]

naw, i have to disagree with most of the feedback.

saying that it's not "dubstep" because there's no (a) build up, ( no "drop," or © not enough harsh, filthy, sporadic samples is basically like saying:

-it's not jazz without tritones and blue notes

-it's not metal w/o divebombs, growls, or 32nd note double-pedal blast beats

-house w/o extreme sidechain and ecstatic synth leads

-punk w/o rebellious lyrics

-classical w/o trills and arpeggios

etc.

i'm not a production authority and i personally lean towards the liberal spectrum of OCR arrangements such as POD's MGS2 "I need Scissors!61" prog remix from a while back, but, musically, that's the only "bad" thing i see in this mix: it doesn't expand much on the source. it's nothing to do with the wub wub because the wacky wubz work wonderfully (intentional alliterion is intentional).

lastly, comparing this to PR's Nullification is like comparing Spider-man to Batman. This is friendly-neighborhood clean dubstep, PR's was Filthy, Ass-whooping, no-mercy-for-criminals dubstep. different spectrums brah.

cool mix, i just think most people looked at the "dubstep" in the title and assumed it would be skrillbassnoisia-ish.

but dubstep is still growing, so cheers!

[/soapbox]

[CC Ricers]

I agree with Emunator on the same things. I listen to a lot of dubstep styles from the deep and chill to the high intensity punch-the-wall kind. I REALLY hate a lot of the fanbase though- it's very divided as far as music fans go.

Anyways, that's probably why my expectations were high. The synths are mostly basic analog sounds. Usually that's fine when they're layered really well (a lot of dubstep uses plenty of analog goodness), but the production is way too dry and unprocessed, and am surprised this cut the mustard for an OC ReMix.

To make a comparison to the more oldschool OCR-heads, it's like a dubstep version of Liquid Neon/DJ Pheonix mixes. But if I were to say something good about it, at least the arrangement holds up pretty well and it's not as repetitive. The drums also sound a little better at 1:35 and the wubwubwub rhythms do a good job in complementing the drums. The same applies for 2:37, that part will sound pretty good if I imagine it with more effects. So the passion seems to be there, but it just needed more time in the oven.

(Edit)

What makes this even stranger to me is that he really is

, and could've went with something else. Edited October 29, 2011 by CC Ricers

[Dafydd]

Wise words

Yeah, what Emunator said.

I, too, am surprised this made it to the front page. If I'd seen this, or something like it, on the wip forums, I would have discouraged from submitting the remix in its current state. The arrangement is interesting enough, but the samples and the production are very basic and lack punch. Take away the bassline (which is cool, btw) and I think everyone would see that.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Dafydd