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Super Smash Bros. Brawl


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For those of you who have seen it in action via videos etc, does anyone else think they really need to tweak Samus' Final Smash a bit? From the videos I've seen with her using it, it looks very impressive but its damage is surprisingly low, 40-45%.

Normally I'd think this isn't that big a deal but when you consider that Samus actually has a penalty of sorts for using her Final Smash I think it warrants that move doing a little more damage than that.

Sure Zero Suit Samus may turn out to be a pretty badass character but when you consider that when Zero Suit Samus gets another Smash ball she just turns back into armored Samus, that pretty much means that not only does using Samus' FS change her into another character but it also may deny her the use of one more Final Smash move unless her turning back into Samus is some sort of attack too.

I don't think its unreasonable for that thing to do at least 80%, maybe even a flat out 100% considering all the consequences. I mean...she has to go through that for a really cool looking move that does 44% while Super Sonic does 20% damage per hit. It doesn't seem too balanced to me. What do you think?

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As far as I can tell, ZSS is not gimped, we don't know if ZSS' final smash is an attack or not, and Samus' superbeam has huuuuge knockback. Mario is at 0% and on one end of the stage when she first fires it, and this knocks him significantly off the other side of the stage.

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Samus` Final Smash has a large area of attack, where Sonic had to actually seek out his foes.

It does have huge radius but its still pretty low damage. And it doesn't look like its impossible to avoid either. Sonic looks pretty damn fast and hard to avoid as SS too. It still seems a bit funny to me considering all the things using her Final Smash brings onto herself.

The kickback is pretty good though, its just something that requires that much afterwork I'd imagine should be nothing less than doomsday on the field. I'm going to E for All so I'll check out the move and see for myself.

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Going back on topic,

I posted this a couple of pages back, but got no answer.

Do you guys think that Nintendo will release Brawl's Demo with some other game (like Super Mario Galaxy)?

Because I'm dying to play it.

I also think that would be a good way to promote the game even more.

The Brawl demo is too complete. Even though I'm sure there's tons and tons of extra stuff in the real game, the demo they have has way too much content and is way too open-ended for a demo you can keep.

I'd love it too, so please prove me wrong, Nintendo.

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It does have huge radius but its still pretty low damage. And it doesn't look like its impossible to avoid either. Sonic looks pretty damn fast and hard to avoid as SS too. It still seems a bit funny to me considering all the things using her Final Smash brings onto herself.

The kickback is pretty good though, its just something that requires that much afterwork I'd imagine should be nothing less than doomsday on the field. I'm going to E for All so I'll check out the move and see for myself.

Ahhh, no no no. There can't be any insta-kill/unavoidable attacks in Smash. For a single attack that covers such a large area, 40% is more than enough damage. Hell, the thing killed Mario when he was at 0% in the Gamespot demo. I'd imagine there would be no recovery if you're hit at like 30% or more damage.

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I honestly don't know with Brawl because I didn't follow it that closely, but I seriously doubt the original announcement was "December X 2008." It is almost uniformly "X quarter of Y year" first. Then when you get into that year, they'll narrow it down to a certain month, and then as you get closer, they'll give you the target date. Again, depending on the popularity of the game, they'll release the target date sooner.

More specifically, it was "launch of Wii", which stuck for a few solid months before Nintendo retracted it into ambiguity. The on to late 2007, then into very, very late 2007 and now early 2008. I'm not insinuating anything here. Just going by what the delays have been.

Then shit happens, and the date is no longer valid. Deal with it.

I am. I'm still going to play and enjoy it but that is FOUR major, major delays going by the tentative AND specific dates.

I still don't think you grasp how one little problem can exponentially delay progress by flowing down the development chain. The software may still be ready by the actual release date, but not in time to be boxed and shipped for that release date. Or maybe it's ready to be shipped, but you weren't certain it would be and now you've missed all your advertising deadlines. The list goes on.

I seriously doubt it as the SSBB blog itself is saying the development is continuing right now. I don't know what to make of the argument that they already completed it. I seriously doubt that. Like you said before, the development is continual especially when they're constantly adding new stuff to the game. What else is there for me to say here?

This whole statement demonstrates a complete lack of understanding about software development. Suffice it to say, you have made some very poor assumptions about where the level of difficulty of designing a game or any other software lies.

I know I was making a bit of an apples and grapes argument but Virtua Fighter games historically has been 'completed' but tweaked over months and years after the game itself has been completed. They even overhaul the entire engine to accommodate the balance changes. Certainly the SSBB development will do the same, but I seriously doubt they're ever going to count the frames of animation ala Virtua Fighter development in order to balance the game.

And again, the blog itself makes it evident that they're adding new content again and again. How is that a testament to the complexity of the game engine? It's in essence little different from SSBM. I mean ultimately it is understandable. But I'm not faulting anything about the development or its difficulty. But the hard release dates were a huge tease and Nintendo knows it. It's not the first time it happened recently either. Remember Twilight Princess? "Not going to be made for the Wii"? It has happened before.

Also, I'm not pinning it down on how hard or easy the difficulty of development is. But how they're announcing it. It always makes sense when they delay good games. Blizzard does it ALL the time, but fans are still miffed whenever the delay comes. Wrap your head around the fact that I'm talking about the delay and the fan reaction. I'm not looking at it from the developer's point of view. I'm not a part of the SSBB team.

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I see no reason to whine about Brawl's delay.

Fool, whiny gamers are BEYOND reason! ...I too am not disappointed by the delay.

Sonic's final smash looked waaaay too good, but that's probably because the guy's never played the game before and didn't know how to dodge it.

And when I saw the video with Samus' final smash, I finally understood how they could possibly make that laser both balanced, and fun. I don't know any specifics about it (such as whether or not players get damaged more or fly back more if they're closer to Samus), but the mechanic of pushing opponents backwards looks like it works wonderfully =)

Is the "crystal flash" really confirmed? I'm hoping that will be part of Monday's update ^_^

Actually, I'm kind of wondering what the updates will be like now... will they be showing us stuff we already know about, like the Advance Wars assist trophy, Norfair, Smart Bomb, and the mechanics of the Smash Ball? Maybe they'll announce these, but also include one update with new info each day...

Also, any word on the Final Smashes for Metaknight, Ike, and Peach? And Mario's and DK's sideways-special moves? Damn, I'm obsessed :<

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Yeah, we'll no doubt get all of the stuff we've learned in individually wrapped, resealed (*cough* rehashed?) updates. Just like they did with showing us new characters from their own official trailers. Prepare for updates like the infamous "THIS IS HOW YOU ATTACK" updates. Haha. Okay, well, maybe not that bad, but yeah, we'll get all the new stuff from the videos we've seen all this week. No doubt. Which will essentially make this week at the dojo boring probably ... that's my prediction.

Maybe they'll throw in a character update to break it up. :)

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The Zero Laser actually seems pretty ineffective compared to other Final Smashes, but it did take out Mario with an extremely low percentage, and Sakurai did say that some attacks are best from up close, such as the Mario Finale.

We can hope he ups the damage %. ZSS seems to be more powerful than people were speculating before the video, but it remains to be seen if she's as powerful as in the previous two games.

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I honestly hope they don't change a thing, and I'll be playing as Samus. A final smash should not be unavoidable, nor should it be able to kill off someone instantly.If they upped anything, it'd just be an easy button. The thing already shoved Mario off even though he was at 0% and needing to line it up is simply part of the challenge. I want to have to work a little bit to get it to hit otherwise it's just not fun.

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Well, they've already made it easier in some respects, such as making grappling recovery moves automatically aim at the ledges.

Also, judging from the Link vs. Sonic video, Up-B attacks can be sweet-spotted much more easily.

Jury's still out on whether I like the sweetspotting or not, but I definitely don't like it that grappling moves automatically target the edge.

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I want to have to work a little bit to get it to hit otherwise it's just not fun.
Exactly.
Well, they've already made it easier in some respects, such as making grappling recovery moves automatically aim at the ledges.

Also, judging from the Link vs. Sonic video, Up-B attacks can be sweet-spotted much more easily.

Jury's still out on whether I like the sweetspotting or not, but I definitely don't like it that grappling moves automatically target the edge.

There's a huge difference between making it easier to survive (e.g. easier edge-grapple) and making it easier to get instant kills (e.g. if they were to make Samus's final smash better). I generally believe that it should be reasonably easy to avoid accidentally killing yourself (e.g. by missing with an edge grapple), and that final smashes should be fun and challenging to use, not just to get.

By the way, I still have no clue what sweet spotting is =p

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I still don't have a Wii. This is partially due to my inability to save up money, they other part due to the fact that my friends borrow money and never pay it back. Still, if and when I do get a Wii, this'll be one of the first games I buy.

What really annoys me is that they f***ed up Link's design. His face doesn't look right, he has sort of a down-syndrome look to him now and Wario isn't wearing his proper costume, instead they gave him the biker outfit. What's a great game without some flaws?

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...and Wario isn't wearing his proper costume, instead they gave him the biker outfit. What's a great game without some flaws?

wario changed from his "proper" costume (the Yellow shirt/ purple overalls) in th first Wario Ware (GBA) and that the one they chose. it's the one with the most character. the other one they could have chose is the wario from the WarioLand Games. which would being cool but need to use those power ups from the game.

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Exactly.

There's a huge difference between making it easier to survive (e.g. easier edge-grapple) and making it easier to get instant kills (e.g. if they were to make Samus's final smash better). I generally believe that it should be reasonably easy to avoid accidentally killing yourself (e.g. by missing with an edge grapple), and that final smashes should be fun and challenging to use, not just to get.

By the way, I still have no clue what sweet spotting is =p

Sweet spotting is using an up+B recovery move to just barely grab edge at the pinnacle of the recovery move.

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Actually the only reason you saw Samus' final smash get that OHKO is because:

1. That comp was on "ridiculously easy" (no, not really, but it might as well have been)

2. It was point blank, which any decent player shouldn't let happen

3. He waited, like, a year to fire the shot by then a human would have stolen it from him and used it his/herself.

4. Due to number 1, comp didn't Up+B recovery.

Also...Pit's final smash looks sooo lackluster. It's too slow to really do any killing if everyone is ready for it. Then again, chances are nobody will be ready for it as he can activate it right after everyone's scrambled for the smash ball.

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