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Super Smash Bros. Brawl

CE

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Broken Newbie

Broken

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When you factor in all the character's weights/speeds with wavedashing, things end up evening out in the end. Or at least it makes sense. Light fast characters usually have longer wavedashes, and heaver slower characters have shorter ones.

There are a few discrepencies, but all in all it works out like that. Anyone more knowledgeable about this feel free to correct me. This is just my personal experience.

Now, online play is a discussuion. In the realm of online play, I think it's important to understand that when certain games go online (ie. Street Fighter/SSB/ Heck, pokemon) there is a very apparent gap between good players and bad. It's just as if you played a random person at the arcade. There is a chance that he is sick at the game he happens to be playing and isn't just waiting at the machine for someone to beat him. You have to take that into account when you do online w/out a match making feature (Which I don't see Brawl having)

I'll admit when I play SF againt people online, I get beaten, badly. I don't really blame the game for this (although I do yell and scream a lot.) In the end, I just want to play something other than the sleazy, cheating , no-good, rotten computer and try to get better. I often feel like I'm not in the same league as my opponents as they pull of practicaly automatic 30+ hit v-ism combos on me in SFA3, and the fact of the matter is, I'm not in the same league as those players. Of course I'd love to play people of a similar skill set as myself, but there's just no disclamer when I get online that says that will happen......

So in closing , join the emulator tournamets. (shamless plug)

This post is not pointed at anyone and it is not meant to be inflamatory, so don't take it as such. It's my opinion on online games w/out match making services.

Edit: Wow, like 6 people posted in the time it took me to type this.

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Critical Hit Newbie

Critical Hit

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...These advanced tactics are an additional challenge! Challenges are what make games fun. I have a lot more fun with the game now that my brother and I have learned these advanced techniques, primarily because it makes the game so much faster and more exciting.

My thoughts exactly. (And I don't even use many advanced tactics, although I plan on looking into them more before Brawl comes out).

EDIT: I think what would be really cool would be if there was an option to turn advanced techniques such as wavedashing on and off. That way people who think it somehow ruins the game can completely deactivate it, and those of us who still want to be able to do it will still be able to do it.

That'd be interesting if they'd be able to incorporate that... That being said, what do you guys think the odds are of them incorporating "advanced techniques" into the computer AI? That'd be pretty badass, IMO. (Though highly unlikely, I'm sure)

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TheCatPhysician Newbie

TheCatPhysician

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sure are a lot of idiots in this thread

pick the stage battlefield and go below a platform. now jump onto the platform. you can't control where your jump stops, so you're going to have to jump higher than the platform, then wait for your character to fall back down. now if someone thought about this for a bit, they might think: "hey, what about that airdodge-thing? doesn't it like, allow you to immediately stop or change the direction of your momentum when you're in the air? what if i did this downwards right as i got above the platform? that would like, save me a bunch of time and stuff. i would jump straight to the platform." that's wavedashing straight down. now it doesn't take too much more thinking to realize that you can angle the airdodge down and over instead, making it so you slide along the ground (because where else is that horizontal momentum from the airdodge going to go?). taking it a step further you might even realize that this can greatly increase your options for movement, especially when just doing it on the ground.

wavedashing is just an example of someone playing the game enough to figure something out. when you first played smash bros, you didn't know everything that you do now. as you play more, you figure stuff out. for example, you might have used to recover by jumping and then immediately pressing up b. but you probably have figured out now that it's better to jump, then wait for your jump to reach it's peak, then use your third jump. this is no different than the situation where someone found out they could save a lot of time jumping to a platform by airdodging into it. so you might as well say "well i dont want to play against anyone who's played more than me, because they have an advantage."

by the way, anyone who thinks "little exploity thingies" or whatever shouldn't be used: i think you should limit your recovery to jumping then immediately up b'ing, because by letting your second jump reach it's peak first you're exploiting what you figured out. and we can't have that, that's EXPLOITING!! i've seen some players that were too new to the game to figure this out, so i dunno. gotta keep it fair for those guys, you know? heck, we should try to make sure we never ever learn anything new, just play exactly the same way we did our first time playing smash bros, because there are some people out there who are still that bad.

edit: btw, every time this ridiculous argument is brought up, i get better and better at tearing it up. wasn't this post much better than last time? i used to have to write like, a million paragraphs.

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ILLiterate Newbie

ILLiterate

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Fucking love the How 2 Hax Video

My greatest wish is that Sakurai somehow does something that makes this game utterly distasteful to tourney players. I absolutely hate the wavedashing, bair, etc. stuff that gets thrown around. Brawl is not being made for you - it's being made for the other 95% of Melee players who enjoyed what the game is actually about.

Flame me if you want, but I just think the tourney players miss the point of the game.

1. You hate...bair? Fucking lulz, this could not be a serious post

2. What is the game about then?

3. LULZ

For serious, wavedashing can't break the game. I could wavedash with Link all day long against someone who doesn't play compeditively and doesn't know how to do it, but that won't stop the fact that he could walk up and hit me in the face and knock me off the stage taking away a stock. You have to LEARN how to IMPLEMENT these techniques, you can just be instantly good at everything you do and ruin the game. As said, the developers knew this was in the game and didn't take it out. They had the chance, and they kept it. L Cancel was in since the original game, same as fast fall. Bair...bair too don't worry that wasn't magically added in this one. All I really see is "bitch bitch I don't have skills bitch," and that's fine some people like to bitch, but for serious, just don't play against them, or learn it and feel the joy of beating them. All these techniques do is make the game play at a faster pace, which I'm sorry if you can't handel

Anyways I got a tournament comming up next week so just, yeah I'll be doing advanced techniques and stuff because u knoes I hax lulz & i brek teh game IT IS NO FUN ZONE THE SIGN SPECIFICALLY SAYS NO FUN ON THE WAY INTO THE TOURNAMENT

Read The Art of War and get back to me

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CE Newbie

CE

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meh competitive play comes out at boring, its a bunch of dudes using the game's physics to the max. i personally dont like it but im cool with the game being made with it in mind as long as i get to fuck around with friends on it too.

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eternal Zero Newbie

eternal Zero

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Aesthetically, I'm sure this game will look like an improved Melee. However, it will surely be a different game. To those of you who care to know, I'm pretty certain moves will be given different priority along with different characters now having slightly different weight classes along with the "same" animations really being changes by slight frames to fix something in the balance. It's going to be quite a new interesting game, and I just hope I can keep up with it. I've managed to be competitive and kicks some ass without having to resort to taking hours on end to learn then practice then use wavedashing, even though I already know the super shield reflect as well as all the variants of Samus' bomb recovery (she's my main). Also, those of you bashing tourney techniques like this are pretty much saying that those with a natural talent for a specific attribute like being able to juggle a soccer ball or doing a rainbow with one should be banned from play. Not even just a natural talent, but just the will to work on a set of skills until mastery. If anything, they aren't a necessity to casual play, but you may or may not be able to get around knowing and using them in a tournament or league.

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Wolfstan Newbie

Wolfstan

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I dunno, I can wavedash pretty well with some characters, but I find myself not using it during regular play very much.

I don't think it's the "cheap trick" or "elite" move many people make it out to be. Wavedashers can still be hit with little effort. The speed advantage of someone who masters the technique is huge, but I find knowing how to wavedash doesn't make up for terrible Melee skills.

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Geoffrey Taucer Enthusiast

Geoffrey Taucer

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Now, to emphasize this further: Luigi on Final Dest. Those of you who know of wavedashing know that an accidental wavedash or wave landing will have you committing suicide again and again.

Then again, being able to control this instantly takes Luigi from being one of the worst characters in the game to being playable and even, in the right hands, quite deadly.

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Broken Newbie

Broken

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Aesthetically, I'm sure this game will look like an improved Melee. However, it will surely be a different game. To those of you who care to know, I'm pretty certain moves will be given different priority along with different characters now having slightly different weight classes along with the "same" animations really being changes by slight frames to fix something in the balance. It's going to be quite a new interesting game, and I just hope I can keep up with it.

I'd just like to point out that this is what happens with most fighting games from installment to installment. Movelists adjust as do priorities. Just play Hyper Street Fighter 2 for a pretty good example. It may take a little while, but people will crack this game in half just as they did Melee. It's just what some people like to do to new games.

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Fishy Newbie

Fishy

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In my experiance, wavedashing/landing is best used at most, a few times per match, otherwise it justs becomes pridictable. Unless your using it for some crazy shine combo or something, I think its a nice thing to be able to do, but I wouldn't rule out professional play just because you can't/don't want to do it; look at Aniki playing Link, barely ever does it.

Obviously with some characters its more useful then with others, such as fox/falco, but I get along just fine with Marth vs people who can wavedash all day. Because I don't do it very often, people don't expect it when it happens. I use it the same as i use Marth's counter; situationally, and not-too often.

I would agree with the people who say some people take it too far, but I get enjoyment out of unlocking the full potential for styles in gameplay. Its just a matter of opinion where you draw the line.

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eternal Zero Newbie

eternal Zero

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Then again, being able to control this instantly takes Luigi from being one of the worst characters in the game to being playable and even, in the right hands, quite deadly.

You're right, but I was just talking about people who, in his words have "terrible melee skills."

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ILLiterate Newbie

ILLiterate

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You're right, but I was just talking about people who, in his words have "terrible melee skills."
I'm pretty sure no matter how bad you are, Luigi falls so slowly that even if you fell off you'd be able to get back on

Yoshi's Island looks good and epic, Shy Guy's graphics look a little out of place, but they've saved my ass many a time in Melee so it's nice to see them back

Sequels to fighting games always have changes in priority, lag time, damage the move does, ect. It's called balancing the game. Still, people figure out what to do with their character to play him/her the best they possibly can. It doesn't matter how different the game is, one of this magnitude with it's already established tournament play leagues, it's going to stay at a tournament level play (Hell, even Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Tournament Fighters for SNES still gets tournament play in New York, New York, every fighting game has it's top level play)

Another problem fixed is, if you don't want to play these people, just play anything but 1v1 (No Item) and 2v2 (No Item). Tournament players don't like item matches, don't really like Free For Alls and are against time match, coin match, ect. So just play one of those if you're really against it

Tournament players don't wish anything bad to you scrubs, we are just completely against fun and hate people who don't break the game

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